[quote]LoRez wrote:
It burned.[/quote]
Haha,
I’ve been following for a while just haven’t posted.
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
It burned.[/quote]
Haha,
I’ve been following for a while just haven’t posted.
Stay strong[/quote]
Thanks, you too.
That elitefts article you posted in CT’s forum on that band pullapart sequence has been very helpful, so thank you for that.
Squats now, lats and rear delts later.
I’ll just try the greyskull formatting out for my squats and deads. It’s simple enough. 2x5, then 1x5+. Increase 5lbs each session. Deload 10% when stalled. Squat, Dead, Squat, repeat.
So, squats
185 x 5, 5, 7
I was sort of thinking about starting with 225, but eh, 185 is fine. And 7 was fine for me today. I’m still sick, so no need to push my recovery any deeper.
Will update this post later.
–
EDIT: the rest of the workout.
Narrow-medium supinated grip lat pulldowns with vertical torso (henceforth, lat pulldowns)
100 x 10
110 x 5 x 10
100 x 4 x 10
Superset the last 4 sets with
Rear delt flyes
45 x 3 x 20
45 x 10 + 40 x 10
I like this combo.
Also, seriously wtf, I did 185 for those squats? With a 285 squat max? Lol.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
It burned.[/quote]
Haha,
I’ve been following for a while just haven’t posted.
Stay strong[/quote]
Thanks, you too.
That elitefts article you posted in CT’s forum on that band pullapart sequence has been very helpful, so thank you for that.[/quote]
O_o
?por que amigo?
No fui yo
It wasn’t me
Hm. Ok then. Well, it was helpful even so 
Hey if you don’t mind me asking, what are your goals and current plan of attack.
Stay strong.
[quote]young n wrote:
Hey if you don’t mind me asking, what are your goals and current plan of attack.
Stay strong.[/quote]
As far as the short term, next 9 weeks is focused on looking good for the pool when I’m in Vegas over 4th of July weekend. I’m also rehabbing and letting my impinged shoulders heal, so I’m limiting my horizontal pressing; I want to get back to being able to do full-ROM horizontal and vertical pressing without any pain asap.
The plan is 5 more weeks of weight gain, then 4 weeks to maintain and lean out. Focusing right now mainly on lats, arms, shoulders. And then squats to keep sane with deadlifts or deadlift variations thrown in there.
I’m still kind of working this out as I go, but the next 5 weeks are going to look something like for upper body: 1) lats and rear delts, 2) biceps, behind-the-neck press, delts 3) rest. For lower-body/everything else, I’m going to give the greyskull LP “squat, dead, squat” rotation a try.
Long term… this link should work: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/lorez_training?id=5283481&pageNo=12#5896500
Page 13 though, post that starts with “The basic idea.”
I want to look something along those lines, with a decent amount of strength to go along with it. 80% of that look is probably more in line what I’m really targeting.
On a more quantitative basis, initially I’m trying to hit some basic strength standards of 1xBW overhead press, 1.5x bench, 2x squat, 2.5x deadlift, and then go from there.
I’ve already started to get some decent knowledge about how certain lifts affect my physique. So, once I get that basis of strength, pretty much just keep increasing those numbers, but also shift things to even out my imbalances.
I’ve toyed with the idea of using some of the old physique proportion standards as a basis though, so I’ll probably end up using that as a guide. Flexed arms = neck = calves, as one piece of it, but everything else also fit into basic proportions too.
I would like to eventually overhead press 250, and squat and deadlift 500. Never really been that interested in bench numbers.
From a long time ago…
[quote]These are calculations for my “ideal” proportions based on my wrist size:
Wrist 6.00
Chest 39.00
Hips 33.15
Waist 27.30
Thigh 20.67
Neck 14.43
Upper Arm 14.04
Calf 13.26
Forearm 11.31
Shoulders 44.17 [/quote]
(These were based on the winning golden-age bodybuilder’s proportions.)
Or, the Roman statue-based calculations for my wrist size:
[quote]Wrist 6
Arm 15.12
Neck 15.12
Waist 30.75
Shoulder 49.72275
Knee 13.5
Thigh 23.625[/quote]
But yeah, once I hit all of those numbers, just focus on growing and staying roughly within the same balance. That was the old plan. It might change.
Really though, once I hit those strength numbers… and I’m close, but not there… I’ll work on the next step.
You put shoulder impingement and behind the neck presses in the same sentence. err post I mean.
Help me understand that.
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
You put shoulder impingement and behind the neck presses in the same sentence. err post I mean.
Help me understand that.[/quote]
-
Dislocates, wallslides for shoulder (p)rehab.
-
Band dislocates, band pullaparts, band wallslides.
-
Weighted wallslides.
That’s as much sense as I can make of it.
Limited ROM with hard scapular retraction makes the BTN presses work for me. Regular OHP, the front rack position, even most DB pressing causes problems. I don’t know why these are fine.
The more I do them, the less pain I get in my shoulders during everyday activities too (sitting at my desk; in my car; sleeping). This is also after several months of various different other attempts, including PT prescribed YTWLs and scapular retraction drills and Sports Med prescribed anti-inflammatories.
Kinda bizarre to me too. The weighted-wall-slide analogy was the closest I’ve come to making sense of it. Bar is gripped a little wider than shoulder-width, removed from the rack at ear-height, pressed from there, and never drops below eye/ear-height.
As long as things are getting better, I’m going to keep it up.
(There’s also a secondary theory that regularly pumping up the area and getting additional blood flow in the nearby muscle helps the tendons heal faster; otherwise they wouldn’t get much blood flow nor “healing factors”.)
Okay bro,
If you don’t mind I’m going to ask a few question in hope of trying to figure out the shoulder issue, at least in my view,
Do you anterior humeral glide when you pull/row?
Pack your shoulder when you press?
Retract scapula on presses or pulls?
How is your elevation and retraction with the dislocates?
Can you do me a favor and write out what you been doing the past few months?
Example
Day 1: chest
A) incline barbell bench 3/4 sets x 10-12 reps
B) flat DB bench 5x10
C1) seated BB overhead press 3x10-15
C2) side crunch 3x20
C3) back extension 3x15-20
Day 2: back
A1) seated row 4x8-12 w/ 2 sec hold at top
A2) rear delt flies 3x10
B1) pull ups/chin ups alternating every week 3x AMAP as many as possible w/ last set including partials
B2) deadlift variation 3x6
C) farmers walk
Day 3: cardio
Day 4: Legs
A) squat 5x3
B1) sldl 3x8
B2) front squat 3x15
C) claves
D) core/abs
Day 5: shoulders
And then after 8 weeks of this switched to . . .
etc, etc you get the picture
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
If you don’t mind I’m going to ask a few question in hope of trying to figure out the shoulder issue, at least in my view,
Do you anterior humeral glide when you pull/row?
Pack your shoulder when you press?
How is your elevation and retraction with the dislocates?[/quote]
You’ll have to explain all of that to me.
Yes, on both. I don’t depress or elevate intentionally on either; just let my shoulders naturally do their thing.
I can go back to last August when I hurt my shoulders.
From August through January:
Day 1. snatch-grip high pull
Day 2. slight-incline press from pins, upper arms never below parallel
Day 3. snatch-grip high pull
Day 4. slight-incline from pins (was slight-decline for the first month)
Day 5. snatch-grip deadlift
Day 6. rest
There was some variance, but that was the rotation.
These were all the same layer system setup, all lifts the same. Typically, a ramp up to a daily 1, 2, or 3RM, then work sets at 85% of that or so.
February:
Squat Monday through Saturday. Sunday, slight-incline benching.
March:
Day 1. Slight-incline Bench from pins (ramp triples w/10lb increments; ramp triples from 70% w/2.5lb increments; then 2 sets of 5 at 50%)
Day 2. Meadows rows and one-arm barbell rows, both 4-5x10-12
Day 3. Slight-incline bench from pins
Day 4. Deadlift
April:
Started experimenting with the BTN press again, after realizing that it’s the one overhead pressing movement that doesn’t cause issues.
Sets of 3x12 every day for a bit, then every other day, starting light and adding 1lb per session.
Usually supersetted these with EZ-bar curls.
Some sporadic deadlifting.
Didn’t really train the last two and a half weeks of March.
May:
This current rotation I described a few posts back.
Off and on I tried to do some overhead pressing, but a few hours later my shoulders would let me know I shouldn’t have.
How I hurt them was simple. One day when I’d loosened up really well in my shoulders, I’d tried doing heavy behind-the-neck presses lowering the bar all the way to my traps. Prior to then, I’d only lowered to the base of the neck.
After that point, I had typical supraspinatus impingement symptoms. I laid off all pressing for a bit, then I laid off all lifting for a month, then I saw sports medicine who said to resume lifting, but no overhead work and no benching where my upper arms drop below parallel. That’s when I switched to doing pin-based pressing only.
And then, the story resumes from the training history above.
Okay so you said that most overhead pressing is out.
How about push up variations? How are bench pressing variations barbell/dumbbell? Floor press with dumbbells?
[quote]young n wrote:
Okay so you said that most overhead pressing is out.
How about push up variations? How are bench pressing variations barbell/dumbbell? Floor press with dumbbells?[/quote]
As recent as 2 weeks ago, pushups were out. Just now I tried them again, and they seem to be fine. Shoulder-width, wide, and diamonds. The only thing I’ve really done between then and now is lat pulldowns and BTN press.
Bench press variations I pretty much stopped playing with once I found that “slight-incline bench from pins”. Mostly I noticed pain if I lowered the bar too far (I brought the pins up a long time ago for that reason.)
Haven’t done floor press since I bought my rack a year and a half ago.
I might not have mentioned it. Lateral raises can still cause me pain, depending on arm rotation. It’s pretty spotty as far as what causes it to hurt. E.g., rotate a couple degrees one way or another and it won’t hurt, but there’s a tiny range of maybe 5 degrees where it does. But then the next time, it doesn’t. It’s been unpredictable.
Front raises hurt with arms internally rotated if my shoulders are protracted. Retracted they’re fine regardless of arm rotation.
I’d say, in general, intentionally trying to keep my shoulders depressed it is more likely for my shoulders to hurt.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
As recent as 2 weeks ago, pushups were out. Just now I tried them again, and they seem to be fine. Shoulder-width, wide, and diamonds.[/quote]
So I’m correct to assume that push ups are good to go?
Try a push up plus really focusing hard on the protraction part (plus part) and then from there retract your scapula when going down and only go down to the point where your elbow is next to your sides, do not let elbow go past your torso, so basically your going to to the point where your chest is 3-4 inches from the ground.
Let me me know if you feel any pain
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Bench press variations I pretty much stopped playing with once I found that “slight-incline bench from pins”. Mostly I noticed pain if I lowered the bar too far (I brought the pins up a long time ago for that reason.)[/quote]
I assume when you were doing these, your elbows weren’t going past your body/torso much were they?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Haven’t done floor press since I bought my rack a year and a half ago.[/quote]
I want to you give them a try, if you have a dumbbell or kettlebell, do not use a barbell. And do not retract your scapula when doing these, also do not protract at the top of the movement.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I might not have mentioned it. Lateral raises can still cause me pain, depending on arm rotation. It’s pretty spotty as far as what causes it to hurt. E.g., rotate a couple degrees one way or another and it won’t hurt, but there’s a tiny range of maybe 5 degrees where it does. But then the next time, it doesn’t. It’s been unpredictable.
Front raises hurt with arms internally rotated if my shoulders are protracted. Retracted they’re fine regardless of arm rotation.
I’d say, in general, intentionally trying to keep my shoulders depressed it is more likely for my shoulders to hurt.[/quote]
Okay try lateral raises in the scapular plane, (google and youtube will be better able to describe it (scapular plane) than I will come close to.) Let your scapulas remain “free” so no protracting, depressing, retracting on purpose if it happens by itself then let it. You should be using 5-10 lb DBs anyways. Make not of any your scapula positioning when doing these, I will ask.
Also try these with a “neutral hand/wrist position” and also with your thumbs up.
Let me know if you feel pain, discomfort, impingement with any of these moves. And I mean all of the moves that I’ve said so far.
If you can’t make out what I’m saying or my retarded ass doesn’t make sense, let me know.
Stay strong
Regarding the “push up plus” and the DB/KB floor press use 5 seconds going up 5 seconds going down, so no sudden movements, jerking motions or anything like that.
I like to cue that you have a baby on your back when doing the push ups, the baby is sleeping do not make any sudden moves as to wake it up.
Floor press: your holding a cup a water filled to the brim instead of the DB/KB, be gentle, do not let the water spill.
And if by using these cues it takes you longer than 5 seconds to complete the movements than it is fine, anywhere between 5-10 seconds.
Stay strong
I get no pain with the “push up plus” movement. I didn’t have a DB nor KB handy to try out a floor press; I’ll check later tonight.
Lateral raises in the scapular plane (well, really, any movement in the scapular plane) have historically been more problematic than the frontal plane. With a 5lb plate, I feel a dull pain in both shoulders, and depending on the rotation – literally, a couple degrees one way or another – I’ll get a sharp pain. When I tested today, just letting the scapula do it’s normal thing, there were a few spots where I felt sharp pain with my left side, but no issues with my right. However, as I said above, it’s very spotty when and how it hurts. Slight adjustments will be fine, and then I’ll get a sharp pain.
As far as rehab-specific work, I’ve been going through a pullapart series daily. Look up “Band Pull-Apart Super Series for Healthy Shoulders” on the EliteFTS site; that’s what I’ve been doing for the past 4-6 weeks. Every day, sometimes more than once a day.
Training.
BTN Press
83 x 3 x 12
Superset with EZ-bar curls
(35 + bar) x 3 x 10
DB curls, right arm only
10 x 1 x 10
Upped the weight on the curls. A bit harder. Forearm pain is still there if I’m not very careful with my hand positioning. I’ve been using a hook grip on the curve, just to get the right angle.
I should really measure the weight of that bar.
A good chunk of my upper body was pumped with this - shoulders, traps, bis, tris. I really like this combination also. I feel like I’m finally making some progress in my upper body between this combination and the pulldown/rear-delt combo.
I’ll do the delt triad later.
–
I read the Greyskull LP book last night. It’s available on Scribd, if anyone wants to take a look.
Pretty straightforward. It seems to be sort of a good halfway between Starting Strength/StrongLifts and 5/3/1. It still focuses on linear progression with the “add weights every workout”, but takes the + sets and the general flexibility from 5/3/1. Nothing as dogmatic as “you’re not doing the program”. You want to do curls? Do curls. He recommends worksets of 2x10-12 for programming them, Dorian Yates influenced, but it’s still up to you.
The core is basically… 3x5 with the last set to failure. Use rest-pause if you want, just get as many reps as possible. 2x5, 1x5+.
3 days a week. Bench and Press get alternated as the first lift of the day; these go up 2.5lbs a session. Monday and Friday are Squats. Wednesday is just 1x5+ deadlifts. Both of those go up 5lbs a session.
Then when you stall on a lift, drop 10%, and work back up. Use this as a time to set rep records. In practice, many lifters seem to have gotten more from the “deload” than the actual progression, both in strength and size gains.
He really does address a ton of psychological issues that come up on stuff like stronglifts and starting strength. I’m pretty impressed.
–
As for me, I’m stealing the squat and deadlift programming piece of it and tying it in with what I’ve been doing.
Day 1: squat 2x5, 1x5+; lat pulldowns 10 x 10; rear-delt flyes 4 x 20
Day 2: btn press 3x12 superset with ez-bar curls 3x10 (+ maybe pre-exhaust curls or extra sets for my smaller right arm)
Day 3: deadlift 1x5+
Day 4: lat pulldowns 10 x 10; rear-delt flyes 4 x 20
Day 5: squat 2x5, 1x5+; btn press 3x12 superset with ez-bar curls 3x10
Day 6: rest
Squat and deadlift go up 5lbs a session, as long as the + set is less than 10 reps. Increase by 10lbs otherwise. BTN press increases by 1 lb per session. Pulldowns and curls and flyes, increase when all sets are done at the same weight and relatively easy.
I assume when you did the push up plus, you did not go all the way down, hence your elbow did not go past your torso, correct?
Anterior humeral glide; I believe google will describe it much better than me.
I’m starting to see some things.
And it seems as though you love your BTN presses, if its possible a video of them would be nice. I just can’t imagine the shoulder, elbow, wrist, cervical spine positioning on them.
Stay strong
Hey doctor young n…care to take a look at my labrum problem? lol