I will be discussing one of my new paradigm tonight in the TRAINING LAB:
“Not only do you NOT need rest days to maximize progress… they can actually be detrimental”
Be there
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I will be discussing one of my new paradigm tonight in the TRAINING LAB:
“Not only do you NOT need rest days to maximize progress… they can actually be detrimental”
Be there[/quote]
.
no way im missing that…
Holy shit! Just to confirm the time is it 8 hours from when I post this? (in NZ so need to confirm time difference)
[quote]T100 wrote:
Holy shit! Just to confirm the time is it 8 hours from when I post this? (in NZ so need to confirm time difference)[/quote]
Can’t seem to post in the LiveSpill. I’ll try to find out what’s up.
Turns out that they are getting ready to post a video of one of the workouts we did, which is why the current Spill got closed down. It should be up shortly.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Turns out that they are getting ready to post a video of one of the workouts we did, which is why the current Spill got closed down. It should be up shortly.[/quote]
Cool, was wondering why it wasn’t working. I just started a deload today, will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that.
[quote]NIguy wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Turns out that they are getting ready to post a video of one of the workouts we did, which is why the current Spill got closed down. It should be up shortly.[/quote]
Cool, was wondering why it wasn’t working. I just started a deload today, will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that.[/quote]
Here is something I’m currently working on:
First method: eccentric-less (concentric-only) microcycle
It is well established that the eccentric portion of a repetition is where most of the micro-trauma to the muscle occurs. Equally well understood is the fact that the eccentric portion of the movement requires a different motor pattern, or motor unit recruitment strategy than the concentric portion.
Itâ??s for those reasons that the eccentric portion of a lift is effective at stimulating growth, but by the same token it explains why it is highly stressful on the nervous system and muscles.
Exercises devoid of eccentric loading are much less stressful on both those systems (nervous and musculoskeletal). Yes they are somewhat less effective in stimulating size gains. But they are not ineffective in that regard. Concentric-only lifting can stimulate both strength and size gains, albeit to lesser extent than movements including both types of contractions.
However the main benefit of concentric-only is the drastically lowered stress level of such a training approach. As such, you can still get some gains while giving the body a brief period of relative rest by using concentric-only exercises as your sole mode of training for a 5-10 days microcycle.
This type of deloading is interesting in that it allows you to deload without having to decrease training volume or intensity (although you can still do that too). This makes it possible to further stimulate strength and size gains as well as neural improvements as you recover and reload your system.
Good concentric-only exercises include sled and prowler work. As you may already know, Iâ??m a big believer in using the sled to perform many upper body movements, not only the classical runs, walks and sprints. This type of training completely removes the eccentric portion of the exercise and allows you to do a form of heavy or high volume lifting while deloading.
You can also use these two concentric-emphasis techniques:
1-2 technique: This is the opposite of the â??â??classicâ??â?? 2-1 technique (which has you doing the lifting portion with two limbs and the lowering portion with one limb). In the 1-2 technique you perform the concentric (lifting) portion with two limbs (e.g. leg extension, leg press or leg curl with one leg, machine curl with one arm, etc.) and then the eccentric (lowering) portion with two limbs (two legs or two arms). This way, while you do not completely remove the eccentric stress you severely reduce it, to non-stressful levels.
Manual accentuated concentric: Use a bar weight that is fairly easy to lift and lower (40-50% of your maximum should do) and have your partner applies additional resistance to the bar during the concentric (lifting) portion of the lift. During the eccentric (lowering) your partner either removes his hands from the bar and let you lower it by yourself (which is easy because of the light load) or even help you lower it (further reducing eccentric loading).
Finally, if you have access to bumper plates (Olympic lifting plates made of rubber that you can drop on the floor) you can perform such lifts as the various deadlifts and Olympic lifts almost devoid of eccentric loading by dropping the bar on the floor after each rep.
When using this deloading method I suggest keeping the same training split and frequency as you did during the rest of your training cycle. A typical workout might be structured like this:
A- Main exercise: Traditional upper body lift (or leg press) utilizing the manual accentuated concentric method (squatting with this method is idiotic at best).
B- Secondary movements: 2-3 movements performed with the sled
C- Isolation work (optional): Isolation work using the 1-2 technique (e.g. leg curl, leg extension, machine curl, preacher DB curl, lying DB triceps extension, etc.)
This type of deloading is best used when only slight symptoms of neural or physical fatigue are shown. It Is a very effective way of deloading, but it does not represent enough of a deload to do the job with cases of severe systemic fatigue.
Second method: the neural â??â??power upâ??â?? microcycle
I like to actually use neural charge workouts within a training week, to amp up the system and improve the quality of the subsequent workouts. But it is also possible to perform a whole microcycle (5-10 days) using only this type of session. It represents a great way to revive a dead nervous system while giving the musculoskeletal system a much needed break.
What does these workouts consist of? Fairly simple:
a) pick anywhere between 2 and 4 exercises either working the whole body (at least indirectly). These can be basic lifts (bench, squat, deadlifts, rows, chins, dips, etc.), variation of the olympic lifts or jumps and throws, or covering a specific movement pattern (depending on how you structure your training).
b) perform the exercises as a circuit.
c) use moderate rest intervals between exercises (roughly 15-30 seconds if using a whole body approach or 30-45 seconds for a movement pattern-specific one).
d) use a load that is roughly 70% of your maximum and perform sets of 3 reps. If you decide to include jumps, use only your body weight and perform sets of 5. At this intensity level and number of reps even when doing a â??â??same movement pattern circuitâ??â?? (e.g. push press, bench press, dips) you should be able to go through the workout being super explosive and not causing any excessive fatigue or have a drop in performance.
e) perform each repetition as explosively as possible.
f) complete as many circuits as you can in 20-30 minutes (start at 20 and gradually build up to 30) but never allow yourself to do a non-explosive rep. If one exercise stops being explosive drop it from the rotation.
Thatâ??s it! You do not want to be gassed or slow during the workout. The emphasis is on speed and power, not burning yourself out. At the end of the workout you should actually want to continue training. And one hour after the session you should feel the need to chain yourself to a tree to avoid going to the gym again!
With this type of deloading microcycle not only do I feel that a drop in training frequency is not necessary, I believe that it is counterproductive. Neural charge workouts work best (as a deloading week) if the frequency of training is high: at least 4 sessions per week, preferably 5 or even 6.
This type of deloading week is ideal when you start to feel less explosive and being to have a lowered motivation to hit the weights. A similar approach is often used by Russian powerlifters who include a phase of explosive lifting only after spending some gruelling weeks under mostly heavy weights.
At the end of such a deloading week you should feel like you want to destroy the weight; you should be amped up to train like never before!
Third method: the relative strength microcycle
Coach Stephane Aubé, one of my protégés, like to use what he calls a â??â??relative strengthâ??â?? approach to deload the body. To do so he will perform sessions where your own body acts as the main source of resistance.
Movements used include stuff like various types of chin-ups (wide, medium, close, pronated, supinated, neutral, horizontal row, etc.), dips, various types of push-ups (normal, with blast-straps, ballistic, on a swiss ball, etc.), bodyweight squats (single leg, both legs) and jumps. He will also use prowler and sled sprints during this phase.
The bodyweight exercises are not performed to the point of form breakdown; all the reps you do must be technically solid. As such you do not go to failure but stop one or two reps short of failure.
When using this deloading method, a whole-body approach is best although an upper â?? lower body one could also be used.
Thi deloading style is best used when you are starting to have signs of physical overload (muscle aches, joint stiffness or pain, etc.) but not neural fatigue: bodyweight exercises are actually fairly high on the neural involvement scale.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]NIguy wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Turns out that they are getting ready to post a video of one of the workouts we did, which is why the current Spill got closed down. It should be up shortly.[/quote]
Cool, was wondering why it wasn’t working. I just started a deload today, will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that.[/quote]
Here is something I’m currently working on:
First method: eccentric-less (concentric-only) microcycle
It is well established that the eccentric portion of a repetition is where most of the micro-trauma to the muscle occurs. Equally well understood is the fact that the eccentric portion of the movement requires a different motor pattern, or motor unit recruitment strategy than the concentric portion.
It�¢??s for those reasons that the eccentric portion of a lift is effective at stimulating growth, but by the same token it explains why it is highly stressful on the nervous system and muscles.
Exercises devoid of eccentric loading are much less stressful on both those systems (nervous and musculoskeletal). Yes they are somewhat less effective in stimulating size gains. But they are not ineffective in that regard. Concentric-only lifting can stimulate both strength and size gains, albeit to lesser extent than movements including both types of contractions.
However the main benefit of concentric-only is the drastically lowered stress level of such a training approach. As such, you can still get some gains while giving the body a brief period of relative rest by using concentric-only exercises as your sole mode of training for a 5-10 days microcycle.
This type of deloading is interesting in that it allows you to deload without having to decrease training volume or intensity (although you can still do that too). This makes it possible to further stimulate strength and size gains as well as neural improvements as you recover and reload your system.
Good concentric-only exercises include sled and prowler work. As you may already know, I�¢??m a big believer in using the sled to perform many upper body movements, not only the classical runs, walks and sprints. This type of training completely removes the eccentric portion of the exercise and allows you to do a form of heavy or high volume lifting while deloading.
You can also use these two concentric-emphasis techniques:
1-2 technique: This is the opposite of the �¢??�¢??classic�¢??�¢?? 2-1 technique (which has you doing the lifting portion with two limbs and the lowering portion with one limb). In the 1-2 technique you perform the concentric (lifting) portion with two limbs (e.g. leg extension, leg press or leg curl with one leg, machine curl with one arm, etc.) and then the eccentric (lowering) portion with two limbs (two legs or two arms). This way, while you do not completely remove the eccentric stress you severely reduce it, to non-stressful levels.
Manual accentuated concentric: Use a bar weight that is fairly easy to lift and lower (40-50% of your maximum should do) and have your partner applies additional resistance to the bar during the concentric (lifting) portion of the lift. During the eccentric (lowering) your partner either removes his hands from the bar and let you lower it by yourself (which is easy because of the light load) or even help you lower it (further reducing eccentric loading).
Finally, if you have access to bumper plates (Olympic lifting plates made of rubber that you can drop on the floor) you can perform such lifts as the various deadlifts and Olympic lifts almost devoid of eccentric loading by dropping the bar on the floor after each rep.
When using this deloading method I suggest keeping the same training split and frequency as you did during the rest of your training cycle. A typical workout might be structured like this:
A- Main exercise: Traditional upper body lift (or leg press) utilizing the manual accentuated concentric method (squatting with this method is idiotic at best).
B- Secondary movements: 2-3 movements performed with the sled
C- Isolation work (optional): Isolation work using the 1-2 technique (e.g. leg curl, leg extension, machine curl, preacher DB curl, lying DB triceps extension, etc.)
This type of deloading is best used when only slight symptoms of neural or physical fatigue are shown. It Is a very effective way of deloading, but it does not represent enough of a deload to do the job with cases of severe systemic fatigue.
Second method: the neural �¢??�¢??power up�¢??�¢?? microcycle
I like to actually use neural charge workouts within a training week, to amp up the system and improve the quality of the subsequent workouts. But it is also possible to perform a whole microcycle (5-10 days) using only this type of session. It represents a great way to revive a dead nervous system while giving the musculoskeletal system a much needed break.
What does these workouts consist of? Fairly simple:
a) pick anywhere between 2 and 4 exercises either working the whole body (at least indirectly). These can be basic lifts (bench, squat, deadlifts, rows, chins, dips, etc.), variation of the olympic lifts or jumps and throws, or covering a specific movement pattern (depending on how you structure your training).
b) perform the exercises as a circuit.
c) use moderate rest intervals between exercises (roughly 15-30 seconds if using a whole body approach or 30-45 seconds for a movement pattern-specific one).
d) use a load that is roughly 70% of your maximum and perform sets of 3 reps. If you decide to include jumps, use only your body weight and perform sets of 5. At this intensity level and number of reps even when doing a �¢??�¢??same movement pattern circuit�¢??�¢?? (e.g. push press, bench press, dips) you should be able to go through the workout being super explosive and not causing any excessive fatigue or have a drop in performance.
e) perform each repetition as explosively as possible.
f) complete as many circuits as you can in 20-30 minutes (start at 20 and gradually build up to 30) but never allow yourself to do a non-explosive rep. If one exercise stops being explosive drop it from the rotation.
That�¢??s it! You do not want to be gassed or slow during the workout. The emphasis is on speed and power, not burning yourself out. At the end of the workout you should actually want to continue training. And one hour after the session you should feel the need to chain yourself to a tree to avoid going to the gym again!
With this type of deloading microcycle not only do I feel that a drop in training frequency is not necessary, I believe that it is counterproductive. Neural charge workouts work best (as a deloading week) if the frequency of training is high: at least 4 sessions per week, preferably 5 or even 6.
This type of deloading week is ideal when you start to feel less explosive and being to have a lowered motivation to hit the weights. A similar approach is often used by Russian powerlifters who include a phase of explosive lifting only after spending some gruelling weeks under mostly heavy weights.
At the end of such a deloading week you should feel like you want to destroy the weight; you should be amped up to train like never before!
Third method: the relative strength microcycle
Coach Stephane Aub�?�©, one of my prot�?�©g�?�©s, like to use what he calls a �¢??�¢??relative strength�¢??�¢?? approach to deload the body. To do so he will perform sessions where your own body acts as the main source of resistance.
Movements used include stuff like various types of chin-ups (wide, medium, close, pronated, supinated, neutral, horizontal row, etc.), dips, various types of push-ups (normal, with blast-straps, ballistic, on a swiss ball, etc.), bodyweight squats (single leg, both legs) and jumps. He will also use prowler and sled sprints during this phase.
The bodyweight exercises are not performed to the point of form breakdown; all the reps you do must be technically solid. As such you do not go to failure but stop one or two reps short of failure.
When using this deloading method, a whole-body approach is best although an upper �¢?? lower body one could also be used.
Thi deloading style is best used when you are starting to have signs of physical overload (muscle aches, joint stiffness or pain, etc.) but not neural fatigue: bodyweight exercises are actually fairly high on the neural involvement scale.
[/quote]
Wow alot to think about there, I normally deload by going to the gym the same amount of days but like you said reducing the volume and intensity.
I really like the idea of a concentric only deload, unfortunately my gym has neither a sled or a prowler - I would imagine that tire flipping would do something similar and I might even be able to get access to one. The 1-2 techniques I have not used before, I have only used the 2-1 as a means of extending a set, will be interesting the try this out.
The neural charge workouts appeal to me at the moment, I seem to be poor a producing power very fast, i.e. in sprinting I am a slow starter but very fast finisher. I’d imagine that powercleans, jumps squats and the like would help alot with this. Some neural work splitting in the guise of a deload week might fit the bill perfectly.
Cheers for that! Like I said alot to think about.
Did you say during the video that your personal record was 20 burgers at Harvey’s? The kid grilling those must have been shocked when you placed your order.
Are we still going to get your thoughts on rest days? I know you’ve mentioned eccentric less workouts and neural boost workouts, but you’ve talked about it more as a deload and not as a substitute for a rest/off day. Will it be here or in the Training Lab?
I am not CT, but maybe I can add a little something relevant about both rest days AND concentric only exercise.
Let me use a specific example. I think for this specific topic Jon North works best. Jon is the second best 94kg weight class lifter that I have ever coached, and the third best lifter of any weight class that I currently coach… so he is pretty good. He also represented the USA at the most recent Pan-Am games in Guatemala.
We got stuck down there when a volcano went off and had to make a run for El Salvadore to try to get out and back to America before the rioting got any worse, very interesting bus ride… if anyone here is current on the conditions in rural Guatemala and El Salvador I am sure you can imagine what we were thinking when out security detail turned around and went home halfway through the trip, but, thats another story for another time and place, lol.
Anyway, Jon snatches 341 lbs and clean and jerks 419lbs at a bodyweight of about 202lbs. So he is fairly strong. He is also a professional lifter, like most of the lifters I coach, my company supports him so that he is able to train full time, without the worries of a job or things like that.
So Jon is able to train basically all day. But of course not being on any PED’s besides fish oil and Foundation protein, you cant simply train all day. What he does is 9 main workouts a week, noon and 5pm on mon, wed, and fri, and noon only on tue, thur, and sat. The problem is that although this is all the regular loading that his body can stand currently, after he has been inactive for a certain amount of time, he simply stiffens up.
Without any other activity, He is worthless on Monday morning, absolutely worthless, so stiff and sore he can barely walk. So, what we do is in between normal workouts, we add in concentric only loading. One such workout is 15 minutes of vigorous swimming. Another is various sled work like CT talks about… Lots of stuff he describes on the sled is exactly what we do.
I have even went so far as to make an agreement with a local motel that let my lifters go there and run up 6 or 7 flights of stairs and take the elevator down several times.
So what we have is a situation where Jon “works out” 3 times a day for 6 days a week, and one or two times on Sunday. So basically 19-20 workouts a week. And 10 or 11 of these are simply concentric only workouts which keep him limber, and ready for the real training. They keep his body from going to sleep, as I like to call it. They add volume, increase the training effect, but do not overload him in the way that doing more squats or RDL’s would.
So, to me, concentric only loading and the lack of rest days are joined at the hip. I think that rest days, for the most part, are the enemy. One should take them only very rarely. But rest from some exercises is very necessary. So, whether you are accustomed to training once a day, twice a day, or 3 times a day like Jon… do what you can to eliminate rest by including concentric excercises.
And, over time, if you are wanting to progress, decrease the time that your body goes with no exercise. There are many fun things that you can do. We will sometimes go to the park or the beach with a Kettlebell, and throw it in various ways to each other. Over your head backwards, from the side, from between your legs like a swing, etc.
You throw it, the next guy trys to keep from getting hit, lets it drop in the sand, then throws it to someone else, etc. You can also take a bar with 40-50kg of weight to the beach or park and do much the same thing. Using a snatch motion, just throw it over your head and behind you. Swimming is good. The prowler is good but shoulddnt be overdone. The sled should be a mainstay. Finding stairs that you can walk or run up then take an elevator down is useful. Picking up a sandbag then dropping it is good.
The variety is endless. I prefer things that can be done out of doors. Time spent out of doors seems to positively effect the body in my experience. I dont really care how my lifters look, only about the numbers lifted. But, I have noticed that this type of training really does affect body composition. If you incorporate it into your training, I think you might notice some effects in terms of muscle and fat levels.
Well, that is my take on the topic. Hope it is worthwhile to someone on here. And hope I havnt stepped on any toes by interfering in one of CT’s threads.
These concentric only principles got me thinking a bit. In that case would a couple sets of explosive pull up to the bar be a good example of concentric only loading. I was thinking of doing sets of 3 to 5 where u really explode up till ur chest touches the bar then u drop down straight away. Maybe 5 or 6 sets of those during off days.
I do not think that a fast eccentric equals no eccentric… although for the purpose you propose, it is better than a slow eccentric.
For whatever reason though, the human body seems to be able to adapt to frequent pullups much better than with some other exercises. I have never seen someone who couldnt adapt to pullups done every day, within reason of course.
If rest days are detrimental, would you please provide an example of how to use/substitute the IBB Phase I rest days? Thanks much.
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
I do not think that a fast eccentric equals no eccentric… although for the purpose you propose, it is better than a slow eccentric.
For whatever reason though, the human body seems to be able to adapt to frequent pullups much better than with some other exercises. I have never seen someone who couldnt adapt to pullups done every day, within reason of course.[/quote]
Correct. Not to mention that by doing what we could call “dropped eccentrics” although the eccentric stress is much less during the bulk of the range of motion, there is actually a strong eccentric shock at the point of “reception/catching yourself up”.
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
Well, that is my take on the topic. Hope it is worthwhile to someone on here. And hope I havnt stepped on any toes by interfering in one of CT’s threads. [/quote]
Glenn, I’m first and foremost somebody with a passion for training. I love reading that kind of stuff. I don’t care who posts it. I don’t care if somebody else has answers that I don’t have. And if somebody can prove that his methods are more effective than mine I want to learn about them.
I don’t care where the truth comes from, I simply want to know it.
I agree 100% with Glenn. Rest days ARE the enemy. From my experience the negative effects are:
-
Decrease in neural drive. It seems that after a day of doing nothing the nervous system is really inefficient. It’s harder to get in the zone and strength always suffer. One of my old coach was old school in that he always stopped us from lifting 3-4 days out of a contest so that we would be fresh. Without fail we always had submaximal performances. Heck my best snatch in training was 142.5kg and my best in a contest was 125kg!!!
-
Decreased muscular recovery. After talking with Dr. Tim Hall (which you can see in the traps workout video) I started reading up on the role of cytokines in the recovery process. While it is a very complex subject, one that I do not fully master yet, it is evident that physical activity plays a strong role in initiating the building-up/recovery process. That is fairly obvious to all of us.
But what we don’t realize is that the cytokines responsible of sending the “tearing down/decay/break down” signal (cytokine 6) is flowing throughout the body on a constant basis… it is enhanced after hard training but even at rest there is always a flow of those destructive elements.
The problem is that at rest, you do not get to stimulate the cytokines that send the “let’s rebuild” message. So you are essentially tearing down without rebuilding. This situation is made even worse by the fact that environmental stress, oxidative stress, etc. all create body inflamation which enhance the release of C-6 which magnify the tearing down process, still without the following rebuilding.
- You get stiff. Glenn explained this well and I agree with all of what he said.
So being physically active… basically utilizing your muscles on a daily basis is a necessary thing for optimal progress.
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
The variety is endless. I prefer things that can be done out of doors. Time spent out of doors seems to positively effect the body in my experience. I dont really care how my lifters look, only about the numbers lifted. But, I have noticed that this type of training really does affect body composition. If you incorporate it into your training, I think you might notice some effects in terms of muscle and fat levels.
. [/quote]
Might have something to do with Zeitsgeibers; external cues that can affect the internal processes of the body. While mostly involved in the regulation of circadian rhythms, it plays a role in many elements that can increase the training effect and recovery and may boost metabolism.
Could also be the vitamin D you’re getting from the sun. Or even the mental stimulation of being in a different setting (I always have great workouts when I train in a new gym).
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
I do not think that a fast eccentric equals no eccentric… although for the purpose you propose, it is better than a slow eccentric.
For whatever reason though, the human body seems to be able to adapt to frequent pullups much better than with some other exercises. I have never seen someone who couldnt adapt to pullups done every day, within reason of course.[/quote]
Actually what I was proposing was doing only the concentric part of the pull up and then totally letting go. Actually I just tried it today, I just hang under a low bar with my legs curl up, when my chest touches the bar, I straighten my leg which allow me to stand on the ground with in the fully contracted position and then I either reset myself into position or lower myself into the hanging position using my feet as support. I was hoping this can eliminate any eccentric effort. Sry if it sound a little confusing, english is my second language.
And I found that becos theres no need to do the eccentric portion of the excerise, I can really focus on exploding up to the bar every rep.