Livespill at 7pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
Well, that is my take on the topic. Hope it is worthwhile to someone on here. And hope I havnt stepped on any toes by interfering in one of CT’s threads. [/quote]

Glenn, I’m first and foremost somebody with a passion for training. I love reading that kind of stuff. I don’t care who posts it. I don’t care if somebody else has answers that I don’t have. And if somebody can prove that his methods are more effective than mine I want to learn about them.

I don’t care where the truth comes from, I simply want to know it.[/quote]

This is why you’ve gained my respect.

Great stuff from both Glenn and CT. So for the person working a 9-5 job, training once a day, 5 or 6 times a week, 20-30 minutes of eccentric less (or concentric only) exercise on “off” days should be enough to keep us neurally efficient and help with recovery and stiffness?

If no sled is available (living in NYC does have its disadvantages), is bike riding, the accentuated manual concentric method, and the 1-2 technique enough? If not, what’s a good example of a neural charge workout for “off” days?

Dang it, the title of this thread does not indicate how great the info is :slight_smile:
Post from both CT and Glenn on a very interesting subject I have wrestled with for a while now. I believe Mell Siff used to mention to that for conditioned athletes rest was detrimental and I have noticed that training every day simply kept me improving. managing fatigue has been my issue though and these eccentric less work outs are for sure going to be implemented.

CT, I have said it before but I really appreciate how well you explain things.
Glenn, thanks for chiming in. It was worthwhile for me.

Quick question CT.

I posted awhile back when you first talked about your “Neural Charge Workout” and explained my experiences with them (which have been very good). Only question I have is, you have talked before about someone going from one-a-days, and then jumping straight into three-a-days, and just destroying themselves (not in a good way).

Is this anything we should be looking at with these types of “additional” workouts?

In other words, does there need to be a build up of additional work? Or could we in theory add in a morning neural charge every single day, and then do our main lifting later on, starting tomorrow?

Glenn

What do your 15 minute swimming workouts for concentric only loading look like? Are they sprints for time or are they longer distance, what stroke? I was a competitive swimmer in high school but now that I am in college have fallen away from it and lift to get bigger and stronger.

One question about “active rest” or whatever term is used… Does it make sense to use body weight exercises on the “rest” days?? I would think if as CT is saying that the same muscles need to be used to help repair and build those muscles that doing pushups between benching sessions would make sense.

But of course that doesn’t mean it’s correct! Just wondering if bodyweight exercises that mimic weight training would be a good choice especially in winter when the swimming pools are closed! I understand that there is an eccentric with body weight so I’m wondering if it makes sense or not.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Second method: the neural â??â??power upâ??â?? microcycle

I like to actually use neural charge workouts within a training week, to amp up the system and improve the quality of the subsequent workouts. But it is also possible to perform a whole microcycle (5-10 days) using only this type of session. It represents a great way to revive a dead nervous system while giving the musculoskeletal system a much needed break.

What does these workouts consist of? Fairly simple:

a) pick anywhere between 2 and 4 exercises either working the whole body (at least indirectly). These can be basic lifts (bench, squat, deadlifts, rows, chins, dips, etc.), variation of the olympic lifts or jumps and throws, or covering a specific movement pattern (depending on how you structure your training).

b) perform the exercises as a circuit.

c) use moderate rest intervals between exercises (roughly 15-30 seconds if using a whole body approach or 30-45 seconds for a movement pattern-specific one).

d) use a load that is roughly 70% of your maximum and perform sets of 3 reps. If you decide to include jumps, use only your body weight and perform sets of 5. At this intensity level and number of reps even when doing a â??â??same movement pattern circuitâ??â?? (e.g. push press, bench press, dips) you should be able to go through the workout being super explosive and not causing any excessive fatigue or have a drop in performance.

e) perform each repetition as explosively as possible.

f) complete as many circuits as you can in 20-30 minutes (start at 20 and gradually build up to 30) but never allow yourself to do a non-explosive rep. If one exercise stops being explosive drop it from the rotation.

Thatâ??s it! You do not want to be gassed or slow during the workout. The emphasis is on speed and power, not burning yourself out. At the end of the workout you should actually want to continue training. And one hour after the session you should feel the need to chain yourself to a tree to avoid going to the gym again!

With this type of deloading microcycle not only do I feel that a drop in training frequency is not necessary, I believe that it is counterproductive. Neural charge workouts work best (as a deloading week) if the frequency of training is high: at least 4 sessions per week, preferably 5 or even 6.

This type of deloading week is ideal when you start to feel less explosive and being to have a lowered motivation to hit the weights. A similar approach is often used by Russian powerlifters who include a phase of explosive lifting only after spending some gruelling weeks under mostly heavy weights.

At the end of such a deloading week you should feel like you want to destroy the weight; you should be amped up to train like never before!
[/quote]

Tried one of these today, since I’ve been dragging ass lately. It was great, and I feel awesome right now. I did vertical jumps, hang cleans, slams, and some fast, power combos on the heavy bag.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
The variety is endless. I prefer things that can be done out of doors. Time spent out of doors seems to positively effect the body in my experience. I dont really care how my lifters look, only about the numbers lifted. But, I have noticed that this type of training really does affect body composition. If you incorporate it into your training, I think you might notice some effects in terms of muscle and fat levels.

. [/quote]

Might have something to do with Zeitsgeibers; external cues that can affect the internal processes of the body. While mostly involved in the regulation of circadian rhythms, it plays a role in many elements that can increase the training effect and recovery and may boost metabolism.

Could also be the vitamin D you’re getting from the sun. Or even the mental stimulation of being in a different setting (I always have great workouts when I train in a new gym).[/quote]

I believe that circadian rhythms play a role. I havn’t studied this in any systematic way, but, I believe that I see a SIGNIFICANT difference in how my lifters execute and react to the noon workout if they did their morning extra session out in the sun vs. indoors. It is apparant that they are not as “awake” and ready to train if they have not been outdoors.

Funny that you mention vitamin D. I am kind of a Nazi about sun exposure, I want the guys out in the sun every day! When I first became aware of the importance of D, I made the guys get a 25(OH)D test, and guess what, there were some defeciencies. Research from the old Eastern Block indicates that this was important enough for them to use UV lights on athletes, and their studies proved that this has a positive effect. I cant say that I have seen any kind of repeated examples of dramatic results from making sure that my guys have an adequate intake of D, but the amount of evidence is enough that I think its vitally important for athletes.

One other issue that you havn’t mentioned is Ionization. In the past this sounded too much like quackery to me to really put any stock into. However, for 10 years I have listened to Russian and other eastern European coaches tell me about how important it is to go to training camps in the mountains or on the coast… Mostly without any explanation except for “It raises work capacity”, but here and there the mention of a “negative charge in the air”. Of course if you look around on the net there are tons of claims made for various devices that claim to produce negative ions.

There is some research on the subject. And where is it claimed that there are the most negative ions? By the sea or in the mountains. I dont really care what causes it though, I do think that getting out and exercising at the beach, at the lake, up in the mountains, etc, seems to do something for athletes. I am lucky that I live 15 minutes from the base of Mt. Diablo, 20 minutes from the beach, etc. We try to make use of that fact whenever we can.

Glenn, nice to have you posting here!

Thib, you guys SERIOUSLY need some music playing in that gym! Obviously not too loud where it messes up the video, but sometimes it’s like crickets in there.

[quote]Smithre wrote:
Glenn

What do your 15 minute swimming workouts for concentric only loading look like? Are they sprints for time or are they longer distance, what stroke? I was a competitive swimmer in high school but now that I am in college have fallen away from it and lift to get bigger and stronger. [/quote]

“Vigorous” might have been too strong a word. I don’t want them standing around in waste deep water talking about girls. Tread water for a while, rest and repeat. Swim a lap, rest and repeat. Not exactly vigorous exercise to a competitive swimmer, but enough to get the heart rate up and the muscles working. One of my guys has a pretty set routing where he treads water for about 3 minutes, rests for 3 minutes in water up to his shoulders, then jumps out and sits in the hot tub for about 4-5 minutes, then repeats this process usually 3 times. This seems to work for him.

personally i like a more silent atmosphere when lifting weights. the only noise i really like to hear are the clankings and dropping of weights, it gets me more focused. i DO however intentionally listen to music when im doing any type of cardio. i couldnt see how someone could do 30 minutes on the bike with NO noise… the sounds like torture.

[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:

[quote]Smithre wrote:
Glenn

What do your 15 minute swimming workouts for concentric only loading look like? Are they sprints for time or are they longer distance, what stroke? I was a competitive swimmer in high school but now that I am in college have fallen away from it and lift to get bigger and stronger. [/quote]

“Vigorous” might have been too strong a word. I don’t want them standing around in waste deep water talking about girls. Tread water for a while, rest and repeat. Swim a lap, rest and repeat. Not exactly vigorous exercise to a competitive swimmer, but enough to get the heart rate up and the muscles working. One of my guys has a pretty set routing where he treads water for about 3 minutes, rests for 3 minutes in water up to his shoulders, then jumps out and sits in the hot tub for about 4-5 minutes, then repeats this process usually 3 times. This seems to work for him. [/quote]

Thanks for the quick response Glenn. I will try it out later this week and see how it goes.

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
personally i like a more silent atmosphere when lifting weights. the only noise i really like to hear are the clankings and dropping of weights, it gets me more focused. i DO however intentionally listen to music when im doing any type of cardio. i couldnt see how someone could do 30 minutes on the bike with NO noise… the sounds like torture.[/quote]

Same here, I like silence when I am lifting weight. I don’t want to dance, I want to practice my lifting, so no music for me. What’s even worse are large groups of chatterboxes in the gym.

Cardio is indeed a different ballgame.

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Glenn, nice to have you posting here!

Thib, you guys SERIOUSLY need some music playing in that gym! Obviously not too loud where it messes up the video, but sometimes it’s like crickets in there.[/quote]

I personally am against anything that artificially psych you up when you train. I’m also against getting psyched up for a gym lift, unless it is a planned PR day.

Vassily Alexeyev wrote about never ‘training on the nerve’. Basically never get ‘‘psyched or wired’’ in the gym. That burns up a lot of nervous energy and drastically increases the difficulty to recover from the session.

[quote]Smithre wrote:

[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:

[quote]Smithre wrote:
Glenn

What do your 15 minute swimming workouts for concentric only loading look like? Are they sprints for time or are they longer distance, what stroke? I was a competitive swimmer in high school but now that I am in college have fallen away from it and lift to get bigger and stronger. [/quote]

“Vigorous” might have been too strong a word. I don’t want them standing around in waste deep water talking about girls. Tread water for a while, rest and repeat. Swim a lap, rest and repeat. Not exactly vigorous exercise to a competitive swimmer, but enough to get the heart rate up and the muscles working. One of my guys has a pretty set routing where he treads water for about 3 minutes, rests for 3 minutes in water up to his shoulders, then jumps out and sits in the hot tub for about 4-5 minutes, then repeats this process usually 3 times. This seems to work for him. [/quote]

Thanks for the quick response Glenn. I will try it out later this week and see how it goes.[/quote]

I am sure that as a former competitor, you are well aware of how being in water affects you body… But for others reading this, go easy on the swimming when and if you first work it in as a recovery method. If your not used to being in the water, it can really throw you for a loop. If you are starting to experiment with “extra workouts” various forms of sled pulling would be my choice as to what to try first.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Glenn, nice to have you posting here!

Thib, you guys SERIOUSLY need some music playing in that gym! Obviously not too loud where it messes up the video, but sometimes it’s like crickets in there.[/quote]

I personally am against anything that artificially psych you up when you train. I’m also against getting psyched up for a gym lift, unless it is a planned PR day.

Vassily Alexeyev wrote about never ‘training on the nerve’. Basically never get ‘‘psyched or wired’’ in the gym. That burns up a lot of nervous energy and drastically increases the difficulty to recover from the session.[/quote]

Interesting, I’ve heard something similar before by Kelly Baggett. So what do you think then about visualization? As in, imagining hitting your days workout goals the night before for example?

[quote]David1991 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Glenn, nice to have you posting here!

Thib, you guys SERIOUSLY need some music playing in that gym! Obviously not too loud where it messes up the video, but sometimes it’s like crickets in there.[/quote]

I personally am against anything that artificially psych you up when you train. I’m also against getting psyched up for a gym lift, unless it is a planned PR day.

Vassily Alexeyev wrote about never ‘training on the nerve’. Basically never get ‘‘psyched or wired’’ in the gym. That burns up a lot of nervous energy and drastically increases the difficulty to recover from the session.[/quote]

Interesting, I’ve heard something similar before by Kelly Baggett. So what do you think then about visualization? As in, imagining hitting your days workout goals the night before for example?
[/quote]

I don’t like setting up workout goals. At least not numbers. I always try to reach my peak performance for each day.

Anyway, visualisation is fine as long as it doesn’t get you emotional, wound up or thinking too much. Which means that most people shouldn’t use it.

This reminds me of the quote by Henry Rollins where he says he listens to love ballads when he trains…

Anyway there is some great info here, thanks CT and Glenn.

For a great look at someone who is good at using visualization, look up some youtube videos of Caleb Ward, I know there are some out there that show his pre-lift “routine”. He does it the same way every time… Stands at the back of the platform, visualizes himself making the lift, walks to the bar, stands there and thinks about whatever cue I have given him, again visualizes himself making the lift, bends and grips the bar, and lifts. He wants absolute silence or as close to it as possible when he lifts. It is evident that even in competition, visualization doesnt get Caleb “jacked up” or emotional, it calms him and allows him to focus. This is the key, focus, not arousal.

Obviously as athletes where the goal is to lift certain numbers instead of looking a certain way, my guys approach the whole goal setting thing a little different than CT does. But I still absolutely agree with him that the goal is to get maximal performance each workout. Don’t let a goal limit you. We often use the following structure for our training, go up to a certain number (I think you guys call this ramping?) and hit it, then come down in weight and do a series of sets, usually doubles. The majority of the work is usually done on the doubles. We start low, and go up as far as possible.

As an example, lets say that an athlete has snatched 150 kg at his last contest. I might have them work up to 140kg for a single, then drop to 120kg for 5 doubles, but its doubtful that we will stay at 120kg. If the first set is easy and correct, we will move to 125kg, if that is easy and correct, we will move to 130 kg, etc. In this way, on a particularly good day, we might even end up with our last double being 140kg, the same weight we worked up to initially as a single! On the other hand, if the initial double at 120 were to be hard, or incorrect in form, we will stay there, and, might end up doing all 5 doubles at that weight.

In this way, each workout is roughly planned, we try to stick to the plan as far as what weight we initially work up to for a single, this is picked by me according to my feel for what condition the athlete is in that day as well as how tired they are, and we try to stick to the programmed number of doubles, this is picked by me according to what stage of training we are in and how that particular workout fits into the weekly and monthly plan. But the actual weight lifted for the bulk of the sets is determined by how the athlete feels on that day.

I think this is one of the most important aspects of coaching/training. Finding the right balance between programming and “auto-regulation”… or, maybe a better way to put it would be to find a way to allow the athlete to challenge themselves and work at whatever intensity level is right for them that day while still sticking to a structure that allows them to peak at the correct time and display their maximal strength in competition.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Glenn, nice to have you posting here!

Thib, you guys SERIOUSLY need some music playing in that gym! Obviously not too loud where it messes up the video, but sometimes it’s like crickets in there.[/quote]

I personally am against anything that artificially psych you up when you train. I’m also against getting psyched up for a gym lift, unless it is a planned PR day.

Vassily Alexeyev wrote about never ‘training on the nerve’. Basically never get ‘‘psyched or wired’’ in the gym. That burns up a lot of nervous energy and drastically increases the difficulty to recover from the session.[/quote]

Interesting, I’ve heard something similar before by Kelly Baggett. So what do you think then about visualization? As in, imagining hitting your days workout goals the night before for example?
[/quote]

I don’t like setting up workout goals. At least not numbers. I always try to reach my peak performance for each day.

Anyway, visualisation is fine as long as it doesn’t get you emotional, wound up or thinking too much. Which means that most people shouldn’t use it.[/quote]

I wrote an article a few years ago for some website or another, can’t remember which one, that attempted to explain why some people could consistently work at very high levels of maximum without burning out, and others could not.

My analysis was as follows… Those who have developed the ability to lift close to maximum on a consistent basis do it because they are able to lift maximally or close to maximally without any “psyching up”, and they are able to get more training effect because of this. Then there are the lifters who require emotional arousal for anything over 80% it seems. These folks cannot do big weights on a consistent bases, not because the heavy weights kill them, but because the constant psyching up kills them.

One of the things that I try to do with lifters that I coach is to develop the ability to lift heavy without arousal. I do this by encouraging a set pre-lift routine, and encourage them to concentrate on calmly focusing on the task at hand… doing it in such a way as to not raise the heart rate.

This is a skill that has to be practiced, just like any other.