At the end of the day, if he eats enough to gain weight and trains consistently, he will progress with any half-sensible program. SS is good because it ensures progression of main barbell lifts, but other methods will work (perhaps better in some cases).
This article: Most Lifters are Still Beginners contains a piece by Rippetoe about how he would expect a new trainee at 5’10" and 140lbs to aim for about 200lbs with at least a 365lb squat. SS is about gaining a base of strength AND size.
By the way, I’m not necessarily a proponent of SS or Rippetoe, but I do believe that such methods can be effective for many.
[quote]cct wrote:
Rip and GOMAD are full of shit. I’m at 6’1", fluctuate between 170-185lbs, 6-9%bf, and making faster progress now than when I was on Starting Strength. And due to my leanness and proportions, people assume that I’m over 200lbs. You don’t need to get bigger to get stronger, you just need to train smart. Getting fat is the dumbest thing you can do as a new trainee. Once you gain these fat cells, you’ll get fat more easily when you get older. Don’t blame lack of progress on your size, blame it on shit training.
For a small young guy, you are doing quite well. If your lifts are stuck at the same weight for almost a month, then clearly linear progression the Rip way isn’t working for you anymore. A upper/lower split with higher volume should work well for you. I’ve made faster progress on several periodized programs than I did on linear progression.
[/quote]
The majority on this site would consider 6’1" 170lbs to be quite thin, unless aiming for “physique” competitions. This is the powerlifting forum, and most decent powerlifters at OP’s height (5’8") compete at 83kg or above. I’m 6’ and 195lbs and consider myself relatively thin…
If following SS, size and weight are part of the goal, therefore lack of weight gain is a problem in itself.
[quote]halcj wrote:
[quote]cct wrote:
Rip and GOMAD are full of shit. I’m at 6’1", fluctuate between 170-185lbs, 6-9%bf, and making faster progress now than when I was on Starting Strength. And due to my leanness and proportions, people assume that I’m over 200lbs. You don’t need to get bigger to get stronger, you just need to train smart. Getting fat is the dumbest thing you can do as a new trainee. Once you gain these fat cells, you’ll get fat more easily when you get older. Don’t blame lack of progress on your size, blame it on shit training.
For a small young guy, you are doing quite well. If your lifts are stuck at the same weight for almost a month, then clearly linear progression the Rip way isn’t working for you anymore. A upper/lower split with higher volume should work well for you. I’ve made faster progress on several periodized programs than I did on linear progression.
[/quote]
The majority on this site would consider 6’1" 170lbs to be quite thin, unless aiming for “physique” competitions. This is the powerlifting forum, and most decent powerlifters at OP’s height (5’8") compete at 83kg or above. I’m 6’ and 195lbs and consider myself relatively thin…
If following SS, size and weight are part of the goal, therefore lack of weight gain is a problem in itself.[/quote]
I’m easily 200+lbs if I bloat up to 12%bf or higher. You can’t compare 170lb dry, photoshoot ready conditioning to 170lb skinny fat carrying plenty of water; that could be a difference of 30lbs of muscle when you put them at the same conditioning. Sure I still have plenty of room left to grow, but I’m actually bigger than someone who’s at 220lbs @20%bf. Why bother getting fat when you can make good strength progress staying lean? Eventually I’ll probably move up to compete at 220 or even 242, but for now, it would be pitiful to get that big without even hitting a 1500+ total.
Get as strong as you can while staying as lean as you can, only move up in weight when you exhaust your options. It should not be the first option any time someone stalls on a lift.
[quote]cct wrote:
[quote]halcj wrote:
[quote]cct wrote:
Rip and GOMAD are full of shit. I’m at 6’1", fluctuate between 170-185lbs, 6-9%bf, and making faster progress now than when I was on Starting Strength. And due to my leanness and proportions, people assume that I’m over 200lbs. You don’t need to get bigger to get stronger, you just need to train smart. Getting fat is the dumbest thing you can do as a new trainee. Once you gain these fat cells, you’ll get fat more easily when you get older. Don’t blame lack of progress on your size, blame it on shit training.
For a small young guy, you are doing quite well. If your lifts are stuck at the same weight for almost a month, then clearly linear progression the Rip way isn’t working for you anymore. A upper/lower split with higher volume should work well for you. I’ve made faster progress on several periodized programs than I did on linear progression.
[/quote]
The majority on this site would consider 6’1" 170lbs to be quite thin, unless aiming for “physique” competitions. This is the powerlifting forum, and most decent powerlifters at OP’s height (5’8") compete at 83kg or above. I’m 6’ and 195lbs and consider myself relatively thin…
If following SS, size and weight are part of the goal, therefore lack of weight gain is a problem in itself.[/quote]
I’m easily 200+lbs if I bloat up to 12%bf or higher. You can’t compare 170lb dry, photoshoot ready conditioning to 170lb skinny fat carrying plenty of water; that could be a difference of 30lbs of muscle when you put them at the same conditioning. Sure I still have plenty of room left to grow, but I’m actually bigger than someone who’s at 220lbs @20%bf. Why bother getting fat when you can make good strength progress staying lean? Eventually I’ll probably move up to compete at 220 or even 242, but for now, it would be pitiful to get that big without even hitting a 1500+ total.
Get as strong as you can while staying as lean as you can, only move up in weight when you exhaust your options. It should not be the first option any time someone stalls on a lift.
[/quote]
pics?
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?[/quote]
I’m on the north side of Indy. I did my first meet back in December, which was RPS. There’s a small ‘unsanctioned’ meet at my gym Saturday that I am going to lift in.
What about you?
[quote]gtl wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?[/quote]
I’m on the north side of Indy. I did my first meet back in December, which was RPS. There’s a small ‘unsanctioned’ meet at my gym Saturday that I am going to lift in.
What about you?[/quote]
Why is noone up north…I feel like a one man wolf pack
[quote]gtl wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?[/quote]
I’m on the north side of Indy. I did my first meet back in December, which was RPS. There’s a small ‘unsanctioned’ meet at my gym Saturday that I am going to lift in.
What about you?[/quote]
I’m about a hour south east of you
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]gtl wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?[/quote]
I’m on the north side of Indy. I did my first meet back in December, which was RPS. There’s a small ‘unsanctioned’ meet at my gym Saturday that I am going to lift in.
What about you?[/quote]
Why is noone up north…I feel like a one man wolf pack [/quote]
Poor guy…
[quote]cct wrote:
[quote]halcj wrote:
[quote]cct wrote:
Rip and GOMAD are full of shit. I’m at 6’1", fluctuate between 170-185lbs, 6-9%bf, and making faster progress now than when I was on Starting Strength. And due to my leanness and proportions, people assume that I’m over 200lbs. You don’t need to get bigger to get stronger, you just need to train smart. Getting fat is the dumbest thing you can do as a new trainee. Once you gain these fat cells, you’ll get fat more easily when you get older. Don’t blame lack of progress on your size, blame it on shit training.
For a small young guy, you are doing quite well. If your lifts are stuck at the same weight for almost a month, then clearly linear progression the Rip way isn’t working for you anymore. A upper/lower split with higher volume should work well for you. I’ve made faster progress on several periodized programs than I did on linear progression.
[/quote]
The majority on this site would consider 6’1" 170lbs to be quite thin, unless aiming for “physique” competitions. This is the powerlifting forum, and most decent powerlifters at OP’s height (5’8") compete at 83kg or above. I’m 6’ and 195lbs and consider myself relatively thin…
If following SS, size and weight are part of the goal, therefore lack of weight gain is a problem in itself.[/quote]
I’m easily 200+lbs if I bloat up to 12%bf or higher. You can’t compare 170lb dry, photoshoot ready conditioning to 170lb skinny fat carrying plenty of water; that could be a difference of 30lbs of muscle when you put them at the same conditioning. Sure I still have plenty of room left to grow, but I’m actually bigger than someone who’s at 220lbs @20%bf. Why bother getting fat when you can make good strength progress staying lean? Eventually I’ll probably move up to compete at 220 or even 242, but for now, it would be pitiful to get that big without even hitting a 1500+ total.
Get as strong as you can while staying as lean as you can, only move up in weight when you exhaust your options. It should not be the first option any time someone stalls on a lift.
[/quote]
Just a thought:
10.2lbs fat (6%) @ 170lbs: 159.8lbs LBM
24lbs fat (12%) @ 200lbs: 176lbs LBM
…Some (myself included) would value the greater lean body mass (16.2lbs) at 200lbs 12% more highly than the lower body fat at 170lbs 6% - not saying that 6% fat isn’t quite impressive, just a different goal. I would argue that it is easier to maintain strength during a slow cut than gain strength while staying in a strict weight range… Then again, that is another debate…
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]gtl wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Hey gtl what part of indiana you from? Do you compete if so which fed?[/quote]
I’m on the north side of Indy. I did my first meet back in December, which was RPS. There’s a small ‘unsanctioned’ meet at my gym Saturday that I am going to lift in.
What about you?[/quote]
Why is noone up north…I feel like a one man wolf pack [/quote]
Sorry, man. You can transfer to IUPUI… lol
[quote]halcj wrote:
[quote]cct wrote:
[quote]halcj wrote:
[quote]cct wrote:
Rip and GOMAD are full of shit. I’m at 6’1", fluctuate between 170-185lbs, 6-9%bf, and making faster progress now than when I was on Starting Strength. And due to my leanness and proportions, people assume that I’m over 200lbs. You don’t need to get bigger to get stronger, you just need to train smart. Getting fat is the dumbest thing you can do as a new trainee. Once you gain these fat cells, you’ll get fat more easily when you get older. Don’t blame lack of progress on your size, blame it on shit training.
For a small young guy, you are doing quite well. If your lifts are stuck at the same weight for almost a month, then clearly linear progression the Rip way isn’t working for you anymore. A upper/lower split with higher volume should work well for you. I’ve made faster progress on several periodized programs than I did on linear progression.
[/quote]
The majority on this site would consider 6’1" 170lbs to be quite thin, unless aiming for “physique” competitions. This is the powerlifting forum, and most decent powerlifters at OP’s height (5’8") compete at 83kg or above. I’m 6’ and 195lbs and consider myself relatively thin…
If following SS, size and weight are part of the goal, therefore lack of weight gain is a problem in itself.[/quote]
I’m easily 200+lbs if I bloat up to 12%bf or higher. You can’t compare 170lb dry, photoshoot ready conditioning to 170lb skinny fat carrying plenty of water; that could be a difference of 30lbs of muscle when you put them at the same conditioning. Sure I still have plenty of room left to grow, but I’m actually bigger than someone who’s at 220lbs @20%bf. Why bother getting fat when you can make good strength progress staying lean? Eventually I’ll probably move up to compete at 220 or even 242, but for now, it would be pitiful to get that big without even hitting a 1500+ total.
Get as strong as you can while staying as lean as you can, only move up in weight when you exhaust your options. It should not be the first option any time someone stalls on a lift.
[/quote]
Just a thought:
10.2lbs fat (6%) @ 170lbs: 159.8lbs LBM
24lbs fat (12%) @ 200lbs: 176lbs LBM
…Some (myself included) would value the greater lean body mass (16.2lbs) at 200lbs 12% more highly than the lower body fat at 170lbs 6% - not saying that 6% fat isn’t quite impressive, just a different goal. I would argue that it is easier to maintain strength during a slow cut than gain strength while staying in a strict weight range… Then again, that is another debate…
[/quote]
I took water/carb manipulation into account. When I was about 192lbs @12%bf a while back, my LBM was about 170. And since then, I’m pretty sure I’ve actually gained muscle and strength. The more fat you carry, the more excess water you can also carry.
I don’t really lose strength when I go quite low in body fat, but I know some people have trouble when they get sub-10%, but that’s still no reason to bloat up to a fat 20%. Just stay in the 10-14% range if you’re like that.
Agreed. No need to get fat, but gaining a few extra pounds can sometimes aid progress, whether it’s fat, muscle, water or anything else.
[quote]cct wrote:
Eventually I’ll probably move up to compete at 220 or even 242, but for now, it would be pitiful to get that big without even hitting a 1500+ total.
Get as strong as you can while staying as lean as you can, only move up in weight when you exhaust your options. It should not be the first option any time someone stalls on a lift.
[/quote]
pitiful?? you are talking about totaling to an elite level before going up to a weight class that it is still an elite total? do you even know how silly that sounds. do you know what it means to be elite. according to dictionary.com elite means the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons. that sounds like the world best. so to you if you are not the worlds bet you are pitiful? i think you just called nearly everyone that has ever competed and nearly everyone on this board, pitiful.
i just did a meet last saturday. there was not one elite total. i guess it was a pitiful meet.
Just curious CCt what are your actual lifts?
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Just curious CCt what are your actual lifts? [/quote]
[quote]halcj wrote:
Agreed. No need to get fat, but gaining a few extra pounds can sometimes aid progress, whether it’s fat, muscle, water or anything else.[/quote]
Agree with this. Sometimes when trying to maintain too low of a body fat, you are most likely cannibalizing increased muscle gain. I don’t think anyone told him to get fat. You can easily put on a few pounds here and there and just bulk up into it. Getting up to 12-14% body fat isn’t going to kill you for a bit, and when you start putting up more weight you will see why you did it.
I snowboard a lot int the wintertime, which gets me completely ripped eating even increased calories, but it also slows my progress. If your goal is strength, the extra body mass will also increase your leverages.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Just curious CCt what are your actual lifts? [/quote]
[/quote]
So asking someones lifts on a PL forum is not allowed? OH HOLY Fuck thanks for letting me know! Next time I will make sure not to ask such a rude question.
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Just curious CCt what are your actual lifts? [/quote]
[/quote]
So asking someones lifts on a PL forum is not allowed? OH HOLY Fuck thanks for letting me know! Next time I will make sure not to ask such a rude question.[/quote]
Should have been more clear. That wasn’t directed at you my man. That was directed at CCt. I can definitely take the blame on that miscommunication seeing as I quoted you.
It was originally going to be a don’t feed the troll pic so it made more sense when quoting you.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
Just curious CCt what are your actual lifts? [/quote]
[/quote]
So asking someones lifts on a PL forum is not allowed? OH HOLY Fuck thanks for letting me know! Next time I will make sure not to ask such a rude question.[/quote]
Should have been more clear. That wasn’t directed at you my man. That was directed at CCt. I can definitely take the blame on that miscommunication seeing as I quoted you.
It was originally going to be a don’t feed the troll pic so it made more sense when quoting you.[/quote]
Sorry man ,my bad… I have a nasty habit of taking things wrong and over reacting on these damn forums.