[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, so far, no human can gain muscle after about 15 years and no human can gain more than exactly 80lbs of lean body mass naturally.
Where are these rules coming from and why is everyone simply accepting this is truth?[/quote]
Whether I agree with those two points or not I give them absolutely no regard when I am pushing out the hardest reps[/quote]
That actually isn’t true. It just isn’t in the front row of your conscious mind.
trust me, when it comes to really testing yourself, it will rear its head.
I was scared to press 405lbs the first time. I was beginning to think I couldn’t do it at all…until I trained with some guys who could. Basically, I got it in my head that if they could do it, so could I.
That is how I did it…or else I would have been afraid of the freaking weight dropping on me.
So, yeah, it is in your head…and your progress will likely show it in the end.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am asking for where this “15 year” time limit came from.[/quote]
Who said it’s a limit? I said after that time, gains have dried up.[/quote]
LOLOLOL!!!
Thus it is a limit. LOL
[quote]
Could be 7 years, 8 years, 10 years, or 12 years. No one knows for certain when one will stop gaining, but after 15 years of CORRECT training and eating, gains will be dried up.
YOU are the one who spoke a “15 year limit”. I said gains have likely dried up by 15 years or sooner. [/quote]
What?
Is anyone taking this seriously?[/quote]
Yeah. Why don’t you ask a WNBF pro about this. Let me know the response. [/quote]
Be interesting to know the average year on year muscle gains of a top Pro say Yates over his career [/quote]
Well, if I recall correctly (might have the years wrong), he didn’t gain much in the last four years of competing, if any LBM, which are the years after he experienced some outrageous gain in the early 90s.
Shawn Ray gained a total of 8 pounds LBM over his entire pro career by his own volition.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, so far, no human can gain muscle after about 15 years and no human can gain more than exactly 80lbs of lean body mass naturally.
Where are these rules coming from and why is everyone simply accepting this is truth?[/quote]
Whether I agree with those two points or not I give them absolutely no regard when I am pushing out the hardest reps[/quote]
That actually isn’t true. It just isn’t in the front row of your conscious mind.
trust me, when it comes to really testing yourself, it will rear its head.
I was scared to press 405lbs the first time. I was beginning to think I couldn’t do it at all…until I trained with some guys who could. Basically, I got it in my head that if they could do it, so could I.
That is how I did it…or else I would have been afraid of the freaking weight dropping on me.
So, yeah, it is in your head…and your progress will likely show it in the end.[/quote]
Well I will report back to you when I come to really test myself
Well I will report back to you when I come to really test myself[/quote]
That’s the point…by then, it will be too late. You will have cemented it in your mind that these concrete limits are legit…thus why me and Steely said we rarely see truly impressive looking people who think like this.
“If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.”
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Do some here not believe in such thing as reaching ones genetic potential?[/quote]
yep me. there is always room for improvement (through various factors nutrition, training, recovery etc.). I do believe that gains get smaller and slower as your progress more and more.
However i have not been hitting the gym hard and heavy for 15 straight years yet.[/quote]
So when you’re 65 years old you will still be able to keep improving and look better than you did when you were younger?
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Do some here not believe in such thing as reaching ones genetic potential?[/quote]
yep me. there is always room for improvement (through various factors nutrition, training, recovery etc.). I do believe that gains get smaller and slower as your progress more and more.
However i have not been hitting the gym hard and heavy for 15 straight years yet.[/quote]
So when you’re 65 years old you will still be able to keep improving and look better than you did when you were younger?[/quote]
I answered this in detail in the other thread. The human body does not stop gaining muscle at a certain age.
The human body at that age is in a fight for homoeostasis. It is losing and gaining at the same time in extreme age.
Well I will report back to you when I come to really test myself[/quote]
That’s the point…by then, it will be too late. You will have cemented it in your mind that these concrete limits are legit…thus why me and Steely said we rarely see truly impressive looking people who think like this.[/quote]
So they do exist then? Rare but they are out there?
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
From TN’s favorite physique model:
“If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.”
- Bruce Lee
[/quote]
Basically this.
This is like setting the limit that most kids in the projects won’t become doctors and lawyers…so they shouldn’t try.
Well I will report back to you when I come to really test myself[/quote]
That’s the point…by then, it will be too late. You will have cemented it in your mind that these concrete limits are legit…thus why me and Steely said we rarely see truly impressive looking people who think like this.[/quote]
So they do exist then? Rare but they are out there? [/quote]
I am sure they do exist. It would be ridiculous to make any sort of statement about some kind of person not existing.
I am simply saying I have seen few people in my life (and this means in any aspect of life) who set limits FIRST and then achieve great things.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
From TN’s favorite physique model:
“If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.”
- Bruce Lee
[/quote]
Basically this.
This is like setting the limit that most kids in the projects won’t become doctors and lawyers…so they shouldn’t try.[/quote]
I dont think the argument here over physical limits should be extended though to include limits of aspiration in a social setting I doubt anyone here would seek to impose limits on the kind of jobs or position a person could achieve.
There just are. It’s a fact. Will a person ever run a 4 second 100 yard dash? No. Will a natural lifter ever be bigger and more muscular than Big Ron? No. Will a human ever fly like superman? No. It’s just facts. Will a 95 year old man ever win the O? No. Some things just aren’t in the cards people and I do not think there is anything wrong with admitting that.
I do not see why this topic always comes up. There ARE limits, some just choose to believe those limits are larger or smaller than others.
Real physical limits or not, I think I’m about to stop reading this thread and forum for the simple reason that I do believe that ‘suggestion’ is a powerful, powerful thing.
In my life, I have dumped the the perpetually negative people from my life-- those who added nothing. I avoid perpetually negative people. My wife and I don’t have a streaming TV in our house for one reason–> Network news. It’s nothing but negative. Our kids have friends whose parents have nothing to talk about except negative stuff and we avoid them like the plague.
There’s a guy who works at my gym who always has some negative excuse why he can’t train this or that-- I’ve learned to just say “Hi” and not “How are you doing?” or “What’s Up?”
I don’t watch “Lifter breaks arm bench pressing” type videos. Ever. I don’t need that seed in my brain to pop up at the very moment I’m on the platform going for 3 lights.
I’ll stick to CT Motherfucking Fletcher videos, because everyone knows that you can’t eat McDonalds’s, get obese and unGodly strong, have heart surgery, then lose weight, be lean and continue being stronger than 99% of the human population into your 50’s and 60’s… Can’t be done.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
When rate of gain = rate of degradation there is no net gain. Which is like saying, “there’s no gain”. OK, cool. [/quote]
But…this is so individual, you can’t make some claim about “15 years” when this is mostly age related and you won’t see that sort of degradation until after age 45 or later especially if you keep lifting hard.
I dont think the argument here over physical limits should be extended though to include limits of aspiration in a social setting I doubt anyone here would seek to impose limits on the kind of jobs or position a person could achieve.[/quote]
It is this type of thinking that send many people into drug use when they could have easily made even more progress naturally.
[/quote]
And if that someone has that decent genetic and want to go somewhere with this, what is the advantage, in your opinion, of “making even more progress naturally”?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
When rate of gain = rate of degradation there is no net gain. Which is like saying, “there’s no gain”. OK, cool. [/quote]
But…this is so individual, you can’t make some claim about “15 years” when this is mostly age related and you won’t see that sort of degradation until after age 45 or later especially if you keep lifting hard.[/quote]
Not really.
If someone were to start lifting seriously in their late teens or twenties, there will likely be no more appreciable or measurable gains past 30, and gains will most likely stop in the 30s completely. I think sooner. Though a limit is NOT AIMED FOR, there is a limit.
You’re the one who who is sensitive to suggestion. I’m not. Which is why I continue to push myself in physical stuff (although my current aim is not size) despite the fact that I have personal limitations (like everyone else). In the past, I’ve squatted so hard (for reps or strength or whatever) that I though I was going to pass out after a set. I’m about to join a Crossfit gym and have so far done two trial WOD’s in which I thought I wasn’t gonna make it, but pushed myself. Recently at work, we went through a rough time and at one point I thought I was gonna snap, but I tried my best and got through it, instead of saying, “This job isn’t for me.” Are there things out there that I’m not cut out for? Yes! I’m not special or the smartest or most capable. This does NOT stop me from trying hard and it does NOT have me dissuading people from what they set out to do!
My personal role models aren’t even athletes or bodybuilders; they’re the giants of Western Civilization: inventors, scientists, writers, engineers, artists–people who did things I can’t even dream of doing. And I only hope we see more amazing things being done and created, such as a Mars mission or another useful invention.
Does this sound like someone hell bent on limiting people?
