WELL. Fatigue is at an all-time high, and I nearly quit this workout two sets into the squatting. I felt so weak I thought it would be dangerous to continue, as I could barely get my muscles to consciously fire. Really fucking weird sensation.
I thought hard about why these last two weeks have been so tough and the obvious answer is: Nozinan. It’s the anti nausea drug which the oncologist doubled a couple of weeks ago after my nausea took control of my eating ability. Somnolence and asthenia are listed as the main side effects of Nozinan, and they mean “state of near-sleep / strong desire for sleep” and “lack of muscle strength, malaise, dizziness, or fatigue” respectively.
Pretty much the exact opposite of what I want when trying to lift weights haha. So yeah, I feel less like a pussy now and more like a drugged out bear on his way to a long hibernation.
So tonight I will (without permission of course) reduce my dose by 50% and see if it helps. If the nausea flares up again, I will return to the higher dose on a day-by-day basis. The nausea SUCKS but it’s worse to not be able to move properly.
All hellish nightmares aside, it was a sweet workout. Lolz.[/quote]
Ive been on multiple anti nausea meds for an undiagnosed illness I had awhile back. If you want I could look back at some of the better ones they game me that might not have as serious side effects. Some of them they said were used on chemo patients as well. Idk the name off the top of my head but the best one I used was a small patch that lasted about 2 days. No side effects and helped with nausea. [/quote]
Actually bro that would be much appreciated. I only discovered the dehydration powder through the comment of a random person, and honestly that has kept me out of hospital.[/quote]
I’ll take a look through my medical records when I get out of work later. I’ll try and get back to you soon about it
the 3 anti nausea meds that were prescribed to me were ondansetron hcl 4mg tablet, transdermal scop (scopolamine), and promethazine.
OF the 3 the promethazine was the last one my doctor recommended as it has some serious side effects. I guess in some people it can make them go stiff as a board and even constrict breathing to the point of suffocation. ANwyays the scop was imo the best. Put one patch on your skin (i put behind my ear) every 72 hours. I would ask your doctor about that one if your still struggling with nausea. good luck
[quote]A-rod wrote:
so I couldn’t help but peruse your log here. Very inspiring.
I just wanted to ask if you are familiar with the benefits of a keto diet when dealing with cancer. Apparently cancer cells can only utilize glucose as their energy source for their metabolic process and on the keto diet you starve these cells of glucose and can halt their progression and even lead to their death,
Please take a look:
I can find you the primary literature if you wanted but I am not sure how I would copy and paste since it is in a database that you need membership to access. At least the ones I get through my university. Anyways good luck and keep kicking ass.[/quote]
What’s up man. I’m glad you enjoyed it! I ramble a lot so I am always impressed when someone bothers sifting through haha.
Thanks for the links, there is some good info in there. I have read about keto diets, and had surface discussions relating to it with nutritionists, dietitians and alternative medicine practitioners.
Immediate answer is I decided at least DURING chemo, keto would not work for me. I am a fairly intense person and losing such a large amount of weight and strength really messed my head up, so I decided the priority was/is to gain and maintain as much mass as possible.
This doesn’t mean I am eating like a pig, but it means severely restrictive diets are hard to handle. Main reason: I have a reduced stomach capacity and can’t eat large volumes of food easily, and chemotherapy controls my “what I can eat” function.
Long term it is one of the post-chemo options I am considering. Considering being the operative word as there’s obviously debate about the effectiveness or even the rationale behind application of keto in cancer patients.
Excerpt from a couple of replies to this blog:
[quote]However, he still hasnâ??t managed to address one amazingly fundamental point. That is the concept of blood glucose, as Dr. Hall raised above. Even if you are ketogenic, your blood glucose is still relatively normal. He seems to think that because you become insulin resistant, to shunt glucose to the brain (which is correct) that somehow means that all glucose is shunted away from cancer cells specifically. Yet there is absolutely no reason to assume this. And plenty of data that show it isnâ??t true. He also completely neglects the concept of gluconeogenesis seeming to think that the only way our bodies can get glucose is either from diet or glycogen stores. Never mind glucogenic amino acids. Never mind the fact that the brain can only survive on a maximum of about 50% ketone bodies and the rest must be glucose.
Sorry Geoff, but it still falls flat and I am not about to let you try and keep pandering the same tired and wrong notions. You still even conflate terms, as Dr. Hall pointed out â?? but missed the fact that you say â??insulin transports glucose into tissues.â?? No Geoff, it doesnâ??t. It stimulates kinase activty to bring pre-formed GLUT transporters to the membrane and allows the passive flow of glucose into the cells. A minor point, to be fair, but it is one of the facets that belies the fact that Geoff doesnâ??t understand or know basic cell biology let alone cancer biology.
[/quote]
[quote]
According to this article protein catabolism is actually the primary source of gluconeogenic subsrates, and would indeed rapidly destroy your body if it werenâ??t for ketones substituting. By the way, I was wrong â?? the brain can take up to 66% of its energy from ketones, not 50% like I had said earlier. So the ketones slow down the catabolism of muscle, but will not stop it, so it is necessary to maintain adequate blood glucose, itâ??s just that â??adequateâ?? drops from ~4.5mM to ~2.5mM because ketones make up the rest. But that takes acclimation, which is why rapidly induced hypoglycemic states will lead to mental confusion and coma.
As for why glucose is shunted â?? yeah, I think it is just a general tissue response. The brain needs glucose, so to RBCs, and leukocytes in certain situations. So those tissues that need it less (like muscle) forgo it for whichever tissue can grab it. I think we tend to say it is for the brain because we are so used to thinking of the high glucose consumption of the brain and our own concept that it is the organ most highly preserved. But in reality, it is just an â??I need it less so you can have itâ?? sort of thing. According to that article I linked, the brain would still need 40g of glucose per day, which translates to 20g of muscle breakdown per day so it is still most certainly needed for brain function, but I agree that the other tissues mentioned need it as well.
As for the cachexia â?? that is actually mediated by TNF-alpha which is a product of immune cells. It is due to the apoptotic nature of TNF which leads to generalized cell death in later (i.e. massive tumors or disseminated) stages of cancer. I agree that going ketotic would thus necessitate the further catabolism of protein to maintain â??adequateâ?? BGL, and thus accelerate death. And of course, to tie it back into the beginning, cancer cells would still have the means to take in enough glucose to survive. So indeed, I think a ketogenic diet would likely be quite bad for late stage cancer and would do essentially nothing in early stages. [/quote]
At this stage, until I read something which convinces me personally, my CURRENT plan is to eat as much raw / whole / organic / grassfed / superfood as possible. I am a believer in the strength of the human body and believe with the correct fuels, I can get my immune system beastly enough to crush any attempted return of cancer.
Current diet is Not ideal but is not bad either:
Breakfast
Probiotic yoghurt
Orange
Quinoa / grain bread with PB and butter
Lunch
Quinoa / grain bread with butter, avocado, tomato, spinach, beef, edam cheese
Carrot
Apple
Lunch 2
Smoothie made of raspberries, coconut oil, coconut cream, manuka honey, raw greens powder organic protein powder
Snack
Banana
Chocolate milk
Organic dark chocolate
SO pretty much 3000+ calories mostly derived of quality foods with a strong emphasis on super foods.
I’ve gained 7kg since my op this way, probably at a good fat:muscle ratio. Once I am done with my chemo I will be doing the same but cleaning it up more and focusing more on organic / grassfed etc.
To be honest I did not read into any of the naysayers who argue against it. I only actually just recently discovered it. I guess if it worked more people would do it. Although it is still something to consider. Anyways keep up the good work.
To be honest I did not read into any of the naysayers who argue against it. I only actually just recently discovered it. I guess if it worked more people would do it. Although it is still something to consider. Anyways keep up the good work.[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong, I certainly haven’t excluded keto yet, just pointing out there’s a heap of factors for and against it. I think one thing is certain: good diet will make me healthier. The healthier I am the less likely I am to die before I go wrinkly and grey(er) haha.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
the 3 anti nausea meds that were prescribed to me were ondansetron hcl 4mg tablet, transdermal scop (scopolamine), and promethazine.
OF the 3 the promethazine was the last one my doctor recommended as it has some serious side effects. I guess in some people it can make them go stiff as a board and even constrict breathing to the point of suffocation. ANwyays the scop was imo the best. Put one patch on your skin (i put behind my ear) every 72 hours. I would ask your doctor about that one if your still struggling with nausea. good luck [/quote]
Thanks bro, appreciated. I mentioned this stuff to the doctor and the Ondanzetron is a strong possibility if I continue to struggle.
That promethazine sounds fucking horrific! Glad this is a Past issue, not a Current issue for you.
They’ve come up with a new strategy for this cycle so I shall see how that goes
Today’s workout went pretty well. I find if I focus on not feeling fatigued, I can consciously make myself feel more energetic, if that makes any sense.
Good news from my chemo appointment today: my bloods are still looking excellent and we’re continuing as per the program.
Floor Press (1 second pause)
6 x 57.5kg
6 x 57.5
6 x 57.5
Bench Row
10 x 50kg
10 x 50
10 x 50
10 x 50
10 x 50
DB OHP
18 x 12.5kg Pair
10 x 15
10 x 17.5
8 x 20
4 x 22.5
Skull Crushers
6 x 15kg Pair
8 x 15
8 x 15
Curls
8 x 15kg Pair
10 x 15
10 x 15
Yeesh, this was a “less than ideal” day. Had probably the second-worst nausea experience of my chemo to date, just after lunch at work. Spent an hour walking around with a plastic bag hoping I didn’t need to use it. It took about 3 hours to totally shake it off.
So I’ll increase the Nozinan to 1/3 of a tablet and see if that offers a happy place between nausea and fatigue. If not, the onc is going to prescribe a new drug - possibly Haloperidol. But I KNOW nozinan works for me, just gotta take enough to kill the nausea without depressing my CNS into total misery.
I didn’t want to train, but I did. I don’t want to take my chemo drugs, but I always do that. So I kind of figure when I don’t want to do something, that is exactly when I need to do it the most. Because that probably is a time it will work for me. I’ve spent my whole life being a pussy and avoiding shit I should have done - this has been a great opportunity to rectify my attitude and develop some pride in myself.
I felt good throughout this workout and invigorated afterward.
No nausea since Wednesday, which is awesome.
I had some weird heart palpitations yesterday which freaked me out a bit, but apparently it’s fairly common on chemo.
Also heard the news that a field technician in my team has taken medical retirement after receiving a less than ideal prognosis from cancer which appeared out of the blue. This kind of stuff really grims me out, but I do my best to remain positive and focus on my good statistical outlook and the fact my bloods are improving.
I feel pretty good today and enjoyed this late morning workout.
However I’ve decided to see one of the Cancer Society counselors next week. This is not really my cup of tea but I’ve been having some fairly down thoughts lately and I think it’s unfair to dump it on my girlfriend, family, nurse etc.
One of the things I struggle with is I KNOW I’m in a “good odds” category. But sometimes I just crumble when I think about the stats and possibilities. I think it’s starting to play on my mind more as I’m nearing the end of chemo (51 days) and I know there will be scans upon completion. Then I will sort of be out of the medical system apart from check ups etc.
I think this end in sight is quite daunting, despite the fact I’m excited about returning to normal life.
Anyway, it’s the weekend and my daughter is here so I should go entertain her haha.
FWIW, I actually think seeing a counselor is a good idea like you said. And not only are you not dumping this stuff on your family or girlfriend as you put it, but you’re also talking to someone trained and experienced in this type of thing and knows how to handle it. I’m not at all familiar with cancer, but I do have an idea what it’s like to have down and dark thoughts. I thought getting a counselor was a bad idea because I just wan’t into that kind of thing like talking about feelings and stuff, but once I did it helped immensely and I was much better off and stronger psychologically afterwards.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
FWIW, I actually think seeing a counselor is a good idea like you said. And not only are you not dumping this stuff on your family or girlfriend as you put it, but you’re also talking to someone trained and experienced in this type of thing and knows how to handle it. I’m not at all familiar with cancer, but I do have an idea what it’s like to have down and dark thoughts. I thought getting a counselor was a bad idea because I just wan’t into that kind of thing like talking about feelings and stuff, but once I did it helped immensely and I was much better off and stronger psychologically afterwards. [/quote]
Yeah I’m the same bro. Always like to man up and deal with shit myself, feel like I’m good enough at rationalising to navigate any dark spaces. But I’ve realised I’m probably doing myself a dis-service by not taking up free help from an expert, and honestly I am not coping well enough to keep it up.
Awesome to hear it helped you, hopefully it’ll be just as beneficial for me.
Yeh I think the counselling is a good idea too. I’m the same, never wanted or needed it before, but have literally just started bereavement counselling in the hope that it will be good to have somewhere to dump my thoughts where the person is completely unconnected from me, plus has experience of the subject. Most other people say two things to me ‘how are you doing?’ Or ‘I’m sure that’s all normal’ & although they mean well I don’t always feel like they get it.
Less than ideal night. Woke up shaking and feverish then collapsed / passed out on my way back from the bathroom. So I’m now in hospital on antibiotic and fluid drips. Hopefully they figure out what’s wrong with me nice and fast so I can go home.
[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
Thanks guys, I always enjoy your comments.
Less than ideal night. Woke up shaking and feverish then collapsed / passed out on my way back from the bathroom. So I’m now in hospital on antibiotic and fluid drips. Hopefully they figure out what’s wrong with me nice and fast so I can go home.[/quote]
Maybe you picked up some kind of infection, hopefully the antibiotics etc will help. Hope you’re feeling better soon mate. Try not to pig out on the hosp food
