Lifting Speed to Get Big?

[quote]Pump_Daddy wrote:
Shit, stop confusing the little brother, ok?

Listen bro, Scrawny…get to youtube and check out the “24-Hour Ghetto Workout” and you’ll see how it’s done. My advise has never been to watch videos donde by pro’s, they are like when boxers make movies, it’s very technical, beautiful…and unreal as shit. Just plain all show no go.

Now…don’t worry if your eccentric takes barely 1 second, less than that or just half a second, shit, don’t worry if the whole rep takes 1 second, just make sure the tension is high and you give your best.

The sport is called weightLIFTING, not weightLOWERING. Tempo only works if you are lifting medium-light or barely close to heavy shit. Nobody who lifts a big-ass laod can actually count tempo.

Try this: go to the dipping bars, or bench press, pick up a load where you can squeeze some good reps, you said heavy works sometimes, well, take anything 6-8 reps then, try to always keep yourself in that zone, and start lifting, rest as litle as possible…odds are by the 8th set you’ll get only 3-4 reps per set, and you rest almost 2 minutes between sets when you didn’t need much rest between them over 30 seconds or 1 minute. That’s when you should stop and move to a very high-rep exercise, 2 or 3 maximal rep sets of an exercise, compound, light weights, so each set is above 15 reps, and then move to a 100-rep set. That will get you big.

Now, I still recall your penis doubts, odds are, your girl and you must be getting it off since you don’t write so much…everything cool? let us help[/quote]

Let’s see if this is less confusing:

1-) Do NOT worry about tempo. Just don’t let the weight fall down freely so you have to “catch it” to stop it at the bottom like putting the brakes on a ferrari going from 0 to 60 miles and don’t lift it so hard that the second half of the lifting phase is achieved thanks to the momentum the first put onto it. Tempo will not matter if you lift so heavy the tension remains maximal at all phases or parts of the rep.

2-) Never go to failure. If you can lift a load 8 times, don’t do it. Lift it 5 or 6 times and the moment your strenght seems to die down, you will stop rather than squeezing the last 2 or 3 reps. I don’t give a shit, and neither should you, that everybody says the alst 2-3 reps of a set of 8-10 reps or so are the ones that matter. You will sva eup energy to rest less and do more sets and keep the load heavy. You’ll probably grow bigger than them in a shorter time or you’ll grow to be as big as them in less time, bottom line is, I am right, and you will be too.

3-) Stick to the rep range/load you feel works the most. If 20 is good, cool, if 2 is good, cool, anything in between, cool, and just ebcause some asshole tells you you have to do 8-12 reps for size or 4-6 for size and strenght is written on stone, you shouldn’t go for it. Bottom line is, do what you know makes your muscles ache, so they are forced to adapt. You are attacking the muscle, not massaging it, and your ego and traditional advise and wisdom are shit as you will grow on your own terms, after all, it is your body, right?

That is as simple, and as good as it gets. Pump did say one thing you should pay attention to: the "24-hour Ghetto Wokout " on youtube is one of a thousand videos done by real people who do exercises on the sdtreets, on dipping bars and such and who get bigger than steroid freaks and gym addicts who do follow tempo. Guess why? becuase they do what worked for them and because you can bet your ass your msucles don’t come with an internal stopwatch to emasure tempo, at best they come with an internal clock to tell yuo when to rest, when to eat and when to go abck to the weights again…

[quote]Pump_Daddy wrote:
Shit, stop confusing the little brother, ok?

Listen bro, Scrawny…get to youtube and check out the “24-Hour Ghetto Workout” and you’ll see how it’s done. My advise has never been to watch videos donde by pro’s, they are like when boxers make movies, it’s very technical, beautiful…and unreal as shit. Just plain all show no go.
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with those “24 hour ghetto workout” vids, they do some interesting exercises. But, to suggest to never watch videos done by the pros isn’t the best advice IMO. Some pros, Dorian Yates’ video Blood and Guts, are real training videos and show how they actually got to their level of muscularity. In fact, lots of pros do pretty realistic videos. If you want to get big, then why wouldn’t you want to watch people who have already gotten big and take their advice?

I don’t like actually counting tempo either. But, you are incorrect that the eccentric isn’t as important as the concentric. I am in agreement though that hard work, consistency and progressive overload are the most important aspects.

As for guys who lift heavy shit and lower their weights under control check this out:

Damn, if only that guy didn’t focus on lowering the weight under control and not going to failure maybe he’d have built some muscle by now. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:

Let’s see if this is less confusing:

1-) Do NOT worry about tempo. Just don’t let the weight fall down freely so you have to “catch it” to stop it at the bottom like putting the brakes on a ferrari going from 0 to 60 miles and don’t lift it so hard that the second half of the lifting phase is achieved thanks to the momentum the first put onto it. Tempo will not matter if you lift so heavy the tension remains maximal at all phases or parts of the rep.
[/quote]

Completely agree.

Don’t agree and could post a whole slew of names who have had great success training to failure (many of them successful competitive bodybuilders, both natural and enhanced). I’m not saying it’s the only way to go, but telling someone that it’s a bad thing isn’t a good idea either IMO.

Doing more sets doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gonna grow more either. In terms of efficiency, doing 1 or 2 all out sets to failure is much more efficient than doing 6-8 sets to sub failure.

This is good advice as well. Though I think there are other factors to take into consideration (such as joint health, saftey, etc…).

Come on. “Bigger than steroid freaks”? I’ve watched just about every one of those videos (and the videos of their kind) and I’ve never seen even one physique who was even remotely close to any pro bodybuilder. Yes, they have built some decent physiques using their improvised exercises. But to say that they’re bigger than competitive bodybuilders is just pure hyperbole.

The rest of the statement I agree with though (about tempo, rest, food, etc…).

Sentoguy:

I am not saying training to failure is bad. But then again, it’s like his question about dick size: not everybody’s got the same, not all of a same type get their rocks off with the same rub…means that for HIM, failure training is a big NO and I stick to my story on that one.

Second…the guys in the 24-Hour Ghetto Workout are bigger than any bodybuilding on steroids trying the same exercises not because of size, but because of their muscle-to-fat ratio. What i mean is that they are, pound by pound, stronger, fitter, than most steroid jocks at gyms. like the one she must be getting advise from

And as for your video reply about Jason Wojo on youtube…i can bet my left nut that what we see as heavy, and may be heavy for him, isn’t really the heaviest he can lift in terms of rep. It is heavy because of how he lifts it to get to an end.

I can lift more weight than that guy and lower like that, and it works…but I’d be lying if I said that I’d consider that laod heavy because the weight is heavy, the laod is heavy because I spent enough energy lifting and lwoering it in the same way Wojo does it as to exert the muscle enough to feel it heavy. Simple matter of perspective from my side of it.

I feel curious after a PM gotten from Scarwny…anyone gotten word of him? he was to fight the guy that is half the reason why he’s getting big strong and into martial arts, so i hope the little guy did OK after I sent him a couple dozen videos on technique and applications…anybody chipped in and helped the little guy?

i believe that within a set you do not want to have any period of rest, or else we would rack the barbell for a few seconds between each rep of a set of bench presses. So to me this means that you want to keep resistance on the muscle during the eccentric(lowering) portion of the lift, so that means you need to control the weight down… Also slightly different portions of the muscle are getting hit on the lowering portion(i feel) as opposed to the concentric portion, so you want to get back to stressing the portion hit on the concentric portion relatively quick, so you dont want to go too slow on the eccentric portion.I would control the weight down and then explode up on the concentric portion.

Also to me it makes sense not to pause at lockout or at the bottom of a lift, because this means you put less stress on your muscles in a given time period.Also occlusion has been proven to cause hypertrophy, and this occurs when you pump the muscle with blood, which only happens with longer consistant time under tension. I believe that there is a certain time under constant tension with a weight that is the max that you can push for that time under tension that is the key to building muscle, but will we ever find it?

I really like adambom’s concepts, although they are not crystal clear to me in some small parts but it’s good advise.

Bow, when I first posted about a workout for the little brother, I came up with the 24-Ghetto workout’s idea of using what you have…dipping bars and pull up motions.

In Youtube, Jason Wojo is following a 20X tempo, or 201, certainly nowhere near the original Doggcrapp method’s 8-10 seconds eccentrics and well, I don’t see why the video has any phrase saying that it is to try DC training at all.

Check John terilli’s workouts and tempo at Bodybuilding workout with John Terilli - YouTube, or Flex Wheeler student’s tempo in - YouTube, or furthermore go to Craig Titus workout at - YouTube and also check Tommy Thorvildsen’s workout…their eccentrics are 1-2 seconds, and you could argue that they are using very heavy reps no matter if the set is 3-5, 6-8 or 10-15 reps, they are all heavy, so they can’t spend the entire amount of energy of their bodies trying to slow down a load too much and milk it, they lower fast, so Wojo is actually a demonstration of that concept of mass and speed force.

Basically, in order to know that you are using the correct speed, go heavy, elt the weight dictate the speed, but if you are lifting, without momentum or cheating form, with the hardest contraction, the lwoering should let the tension level remain and not dissipate, but the idea is not to waste time and count seconds on the lowering, but to stretch the muscle against the maximal tension, not to resist the laod enough to spend a day lowering it to do so, that’s keeping the muscle contracted, and the lowering means to stretch it.

The advise “lower by keeping the muscles as hard as they got during lifting with the same level of tension/contraction” is like posing on a bodybuilding contest, flexing and keeping an isometric contraction, it’s flawed, the idea should be to lift with the hardest contraction and without cheating or using momentum, and lowering trying to eliminate momentum and making the muscle stretch with the most tension, under the most tension, but not to resist the force of the laod and keep the muscles contracted, definetly not.

Scrawny also PM-ed me and whom I sent some info about some gyms in Missouri in his area where he can get in a better fighting shape, I hope he did ok, his whole idea on the penis size thread was whacked and I guess that if the little brother is getting big, strong and fighting-wise as well as sex-ready for a girl he must be having to beat up some guy do so, and I guess that since we have all been there, we should chip in and not worry that much.

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:
Sentoguy:

I am not saying training to failure is bad. But then again, it’s like his question about dick size: not everybody’s got the same, not all of a same type get their rocks off with the same rub…means that for HIM, failure training is a big NO and I stick to my story on that one.
[/quote]

Yes, I agree, there are many ways to get to your destination, and different people will prefer different methods.

As far as what would work best for him, I think he’d probably need to actually give both methods a serious try and see what types of results he got. It’s really difficult to make predictions on that type of stuff over the net (or even in person). Trial and error is really the only surefire way IMO.

I’m not really sure what you meant by that first sentence. Stronger? Well, they are better at those exercises than a big gym rat who had never done them before, that much is true. They may also be “fitter”, though that word really is a subjective one. I’ve never had someone be able to tell me a definitive all inclusive definition of “fit”.

But, your second sentence I can understand. My objection was to saying that they are “bigger” than “steroid freaks” and “gym addicts”. I don’t know about your gym, but mine contains quite a few guys who are bigger than any of the guys I have ever seen in one of those “ghetto fitness” videos. And I don’t even have any pros who train at my gym (there used to be a guy who ended up going pro, but he doesn’t train there any more).

I took that statement as if you were saying that these guys doing dips and pull-up variations were getting bigger than guys who devote years of hard training at gyms. That is what I was objecting to.

Yes, he can probably lift more. My point was simply to point out that even guys who lift some impressive weights pay attention to their tempo. No, he’s not actually counting it, but it’s pretty obvious that he is lifting with a deliberate tempo other than just as fast as he can. That was my point in posting that vid.

[quote]
I can lift more weight than that guy and lower like that, and it works…but I’d be lying if I said that I’d consider that laod heavy because the weight is heavy, the laod is heavy because I spent enough energy lifting and lwoering it in the same way Wojo does it as to exert the muscle enough to feel it heavy. Simple matter of perspective from my side of it.[/quote]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying, but isn’t that generally the case with bodybuilding? Isn’t the goal to stress the muscles, thus causing them to grow? Sure, if one were to just throw form out the window, or utilize leverage and biomechanical principles to allow them to simply lift the most amount of weight (like powerlifters do), then they could most definitely lift more. But their muscles might not be getting any more benefit from that increased weight and thus it wouldn’t necessarily aid them in their quest for hugeness.

Not saying that powerlifting won’t build muscle, or that lifting for lower reps won’t either. Just saying that form is important, and the goal should really be to stress the muscles as much as possible, thus forcing them to adapt/grow. So, what ever form/system allows YOU to do that best should be the one that YOU use (emphasis on “you” because I agree again that this is an individual matter).

[quote]Pump_Daddy wrote:

In Youtube, Jason Wojo is following a 20X tempo, or 201, certainly nowhere near the original Doggcrapp method’s 8-10 seconds eccentrics and well, I don’t see why the video has any phrase saying that it is to try DC training at all.
[/quote]

DC’s method never involved 8-10 second eccentrics though. He has stated many times that he said that to try to get people to simply slow down their eccentrics (not just let them drop) because he feels that the eccentric portion of the lift is important. He knew that a lot of people cheat any way when they count tempo, so fully expected eight second negatives to be like “onetwothreefourfivesixseveneight”, which would probably only take about 2 seconds in reality.

All he prescribes in regards to negatives is to control the weight down, much like we have all been advising in this thread. Jason has also personally trained with Dante, so I think it’s safe to say that he is doing DC training.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. I wasn’t trying to argue that one should do super slow eccentrics, or actually count tempo. Just that paying attention to it (even if it’s just “lift as fast as possible, lower under control”) can be a good thing.

Hope he’s doing well.

Pump Daddy, what wasnt crystal clear, maybe i can clarify what i meant

[quote]ScrawnySavant wrote:
By any chance, anyone here can tell me which style is better in Martial Arts to kick someone’s ass good?..I have seen 7 gyms, they have Kenpo-Karate, Savate, Wing Chun, Hapkido, Taekwondo, Kickboxing and Krav Maga, and I need something that teaches mostly to block/parry any punch, that emphasizes being “untouchable” and which is fast to learn and can be used easy.[/quote]

You need “The art of fighting without fightin” ref. BL/EtD

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
ScrawnySavant wrote:
By any chance, anyone here can tell me which style is better in Martial Arts to kick someone’s ass good?..I have seen 7 gyms, they have Kenpo-Karate, Savate, Wing Chun, Hapkido, Taekwondo, Kickboxing and Krav Maga, and I need something that teaches mostly to block/parry any punch, that emphasizes being “untouchable” and which is fast to learn and can be used easy.

First, I’d agree with others who stated that you should not be looking to get into fights. Avoiding or averting (using speech, body posture, body language to attempt to convince your opponent to decide not to fight you) are the best methods of self defense. As the great Morihei Ueshiba (the founder of Aikido) once said (and I’m paraphrasing), “if you have have to resort to blows, you’ve already lost.”

You failed to mention that Aikido is an art that doesn’t contain kicks or strikes. So in that context O’ Sensi’s comments may not be applicable to the idea that one should not fight at all. But I think the lesson is still there.

[/quote]

Aikido does contain strikes (atemi) some styles also have kicks, at knee level or below. Ueshiba’s art evolved throughout his ‘career’ his many quotes, when taken out of context, may appear contradictory.
BTW the young Morihei was very interested in physical strength.

Ok, I am glad to tell you I had a fight…broken nose, busted lip, black eye and a hurt knee…but the other guy got sent to the hospital: radius fissure fracture, 3 broken ribs, dislocated shoulder and I left his face three times worse than mine, like some sort of “elephant man” mask. I did it thanks to the advise of Savage, did a lot of wing chun and mixed it with boxing and kickboxing and some filipino stick fighting with jiu jitsu ground work in a gym here with a guy whose brother traiend and appeared on Ultimate Fighter’s 2nd season.

I also found out that you were right about penis size…and that i measured it wrong, I am a little above 6 but the girl i was after didn’t compliment me, it was a pro, and I do not mean a paying one, I mean one of those girls who ahs been around a lot, you know, and it is awesome to feel this good, and I did a trick a friend studying medicine told me, to count the contractions to see if she orgasms, and I was counting a pulse or hearbeat rate almost, by God…

About the program, I have read some Staley, Waterbury and Thibaudeau and concluded that there are three things I need to do: eliminate momentum but applying maximal strenght at the lifting, give my 100% as it was wsaid here…then lower slow and controlled but without slowing it down on purpose, simply doing what I feel works me to the max in the lowering, and instead of aiming for an amount of reps, I simply do as many quality reps per set as I can and use laods that let me predict how many I will be able to get out of a load.

I did the 1-to-10 rep program scheme and the 30, 10, 15, 10 one and I choose better 1-to-10, but I have discovered that I love doing 6-8 reps, heavy, lowering slow and controleld, in 2-4 seconds, and that i don’t have to lower at the same speed through the set, only to give my best, and that best may diminish as my strenght wanes and my fatigue increases. Resting as little as possible is good too, without wearing myself out and to go hard but not to failure…yet…also, not locking out, using nutrition, resting 8 hours, not smoking or drinking…

The youtube videos are cool, I see that everybody lifts between 2-1 seconds in the lowering and lift in 1 second or close, to me, that seems as what Savage and Pump said but I just think the speed doesn’t matter, it’s what the load does going down what does, and some loads need more time going down than others to produce an effect desired…all that you have to do is concentrate as if each single rep was the only, the first and alst one and you had a person judging your technique like some Olympic judge, that way no matter what amount of sets, reps and session you do, every single rep is on the target.

I still would like to know if someone here has used pumps to get his penis bigger and if they work, how much use can i ened to grow almost an inch more, if that is possible? lus, who knows about tantric sex or tao sex? Sorry to ask but I figured out this website is the wikipedia for real manly men, and I am needing help.

Jesus…

“…I still would like to know if someone here has used pumps to get his penis bigger and if they work, how much use can i ened to grow almost an inch more, if that is possible? lus, who knows about tantric sex or tao sex…”

GET SOME DOSE OF REALITY, LITTLE BRO:

Penis pumps work and get you half an inch to 1 inch bigger…if you have a 4-inch pecker and you are still a couple years away from drinking age. Otherwise, it’s not going to do shit on your dick. If you are over 18, you have grown all you can and trust me, it’s not bad.

I think you said you were over 6 inches. That makes you a lucky bastard because 60% of the world’s male population has it between 5,5 and 6 inches. If you are 6,5 or so, you are in the zone, closer to 7? Even better…the deepest vagina has been recorded at 17,5 inches depth, the biggest penis 14 inches…and the best orgasm? No record…why? doesn’t have shit to do with size as long as you have the bare minimum, just like in boxing, being at the lwoer or higher end of the weight class, reach lenght or so doesn’t amount to shitif you can’t use it the right way.

As for size…I like the attitude, thinking you ahve only 1 rep to do it well and that every rep is the first, alst and only, squeezing everything out of it…makes you cut to the chase and do 10% of what you’d normally do, giving it a 100% of your best and getting big twice as fast as you found a way to bat a thousand on the weightroom. Now, just seek variety, different sort sof stimulus, different ways to milk the rep with angles, speeds cadences, mixes and such. Your body will tell you.

I am glad you got to beat the shit out of whoever you wished to. I like you, don’t know and don’t wish nothing bad to the other guy but well, I guess it’s you over him because I know ya, but don’¡t fight like it’s a game, you xn get hurt and hurt someone for real. Be responsible.

Tantric or Tao sex is simple: don’t ejaculate. My take on kama Sutra and such is easy, it’s like lifting with my eyes closed and holding my breath, hearing nothign thanks to my earplugs…I concentrate feel eevry vibration, the breath of a spotter behind me, the clanging of the plates, the vibration on teh bar as I lift and lwoer, how close it comes to my chest skin and the breeze it creates…it’s almost Zen…sex is the same, just put her before you and you’ll get a ticket to her Sex Hall of Fame and probably become her Everest top.

A friend once told me “sex for us is like mountain climbing is for you: sometimes men can be as big as mount everest in terms of how good a roll in the hay with them can be, but not a place that sustains and nourishes you enough to stay, like the top of the everest mountain…some are like a climb in the alps and a ski sesion…cool while it lasts, a fun ride, but not something to keep on doing forever, you go to the beach on summer for changes…and finally, there are men who are like Beverly Hills…the place where you want to stay…despite size and technique, their passion feels like hugging a boiler, it sets you on fire, gets you in heat like they were 20 inches and their dick had vibrating fingers on yuor inner spots, even if it’s just 5 inches and pencil-thin and they can’t do more than 2 positions…it’s the what for and why, not the how or with what…” and you probably know her because she’s been in the porn business quite some time, as I knew her in a BDSM party in the event Thunder in the Mountains. And if she tells you that, she’s telling the truth.

[quote]ScrawnySavant wrote:
Umm, hi, hello members, new user here, I have been scanning the site and I just want to ask why is it that somebody says “lift fast, as fasta s possible or try to do so” and then you see bodybuilding videos and pros and people from eevry magazine saying, and showing on the videos, that you should take 1-2 seconds or so to lift and 2 seconds, as a minimum, to lower the load, and never high reps or lowe reps with heavy or light loads, but always moderate sets of moderate loads, 8-12 reps with a 15-12RM ?

I have read enough to know that this site sticks to facts, but please tell me what should I aim to get out of a rep speed to know how to feel like when I do things right?[/quote]

Both is good, slow and steady is an old hypertrophy technique, as it is to increase time under tension, to fatugue the slow fatugue resistant fibres in the muscle, then the fatugue resistant, then the fast fatigue resistant - as per the size principle.
The aim of this is to fatugue the fast twich fibres which have the biggest growth potential.

Another way to “access” the fast twich fibrtes is to use a load over 90%, near maximum enough to make your body use ALL fibres to lift the weight… or if you life as fast as possible, you increase the tension of the muscle, thereby facilitating the use of fast twich fibres. So the theory is (and one i believe) that what ever weight you lift, lift is fast - even if it moves slow - to recruit the fast fatigue fibres first/sufficiently for hypertrophy.

Joe