Lifting Program Confusion

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

So you know we’ve all heard it…lift no more than 3-4x a week, anymore than 50 min. a time and you’re guaranteed to burn out.

Interesting, because with all the knowledge we have, I just talked to a 15 year old who has gone from a 140 bench to a 280 bench in 9 months using his own ways of lifting (5-6 days of lifting a week, 2-3 days of benching). oh my gosh, shouldn’t be be surely overtrained???

As well, another guy I know calls me a n00b for following any programs at all, and that you should be able to just make up your own or go whenever you feel like going if you’re up to it. Think he’s no good? Interesting, cuz he just benched 405 around age 20.

All I’m saying is, I’ve been following suggested advice from quality programs and my bench has hardly improved 5 lbs in a year. i’m only lifting 3x a week right now on ws4sb, and in the time that i’ve been on it for 4 weeks now, my bench has gone from 210 for 5 reps to, well, basically 210 for 5 reps. Don’t dare think i’m not doing things right though. EVERYTHING in my life is in check, so there’s no reason for this, short of maybe not training enough.

thoughts?

2

The younger you are, both chronologicaly and training wise, the better tollerance you have for training frequency and intensity.

It’s funny that I haven’t seen anyhing that explains this very basic concept in quite a while.

If your bench is stuck like that, you most definitely are missing something. To think that you are doing everything perfectly is a perfect way to stagnate.

3

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The younger you are, both chronologicaly and training wise, the better tollerance you have for training frequency and intensity.

It’s funny that I haven’t seen anyhing that explains this very basic concept in quite a while.

If your bench is stuck like that, you most definitely are missing something. To think that you are doing everything perfectly is a perfect way to stagnate.
[/quote]

What are you saying, that I should start doing things like shit? Let’s see here, my diet is in full on check at 4200 plus calories a day, i take Surge right after my workout, lots of BCAA’s during and before a workout, a Spike before my workouts, multivitamin/resveratrol, TONS of fish oil, ZMA before bed time,

i eat the right proteins at the right times, have quality carbs at the right times and fats at the right times. my sleeping schedule is 8-9 hours a night, i have no job, my major is easy. I put all out effort into the lifts I do, as you might see here with htis 315x5 box squat vid. Box Squat 315x5 - YouTube

sorry but i don’t see anyone else around putting in the kind of effort i am, and my progress is for shit.

sure my leg progress is going up, but not my upper body. i feel like there’s way too much emphasis on leg development on this site than upper body to be honest.

let me ask a serious question…when you all talk about how you’d rather lift heavy stuff than look “pretty” or w/e you wana call it, are you honestly talking about wanting to bench above 500 pounds, squat over 600, and deadlift over 700?

because all these people that i talk to with what i consider to be big numbers (benches in the 300’s, squats in the 500’s, deadlifts in the 500’s), all focus on bodybuilding routines and not powerlifting, yet you all call them weak cuz they’re bb’ers? I just don’t get it unless you all are trying to be the next world record setters.

4

for example, go look up hola bola on gasp bodybuilding.com

the guy is huge, and he admits that his main goal is size and strength if it comes.

you guys think, strength if it comes? this kid must be a weak pussy. interesting, cuz he’s incline db pressed 145’s 5 times, has dipped 4 reps with 200 lbs hanging, and squatted 275 30 times.

guess what about his split also? he said the absolute best one he’s ever been on is a 12 day rotation he made where he only took 1 day off every 4 days of lifting.

and guess what he said was the absolute worst split he’s ever done that he would not suggest to anyone unless they couldn’t make it to the gym more than 2-3x a week? an upper/lower!

go figure, he’s bigger than pretty much anyone here and is natural, i gota think he knows what he’s talking about. not to mention he’s having a hell of a lot more fun going to the gym 5-6 times a week than we are sitting around doing nothing when we only do 3-4 times max.

5

Your attitude is pure shit. Fix that first.

And stop comparing yourself to everyone else. You aren’t everyone else.

Progress is personal.

6

[quote]SBT wrote:
Your attitude is pure shit. Fix that first.

And stop comparing yourself to everyone else. You aren’t everyone else.

Progress is personal.[/quote]

i really don’t need to hear the whole mental side of lifting, as i told myself before i lifted 315x5 i probably wouldn’t get it, but guess what, i did. know why? because for that movement, my size/strength was just simply capable of doing it. this whole mental thing is like saying someone who has benched 600 might not be able to lift 100 lbs if they don’t have their minds in it.

I realize the mind can take you far in terms of keeping in the game a long time and not swaying to other things or getting to bed on time or making sure to eat, but damnit, STOP THINKING YOUR MIND IS GONA GET YOU TO LIFT 100 MORE POUNDS OUT OF YOUR ASS!!! It doesn’t! I can pump myself up all I want for that lift, but if i’m not physically capable of doing it yet, no mind matter or shit is gona make me get it up short of lifting my butt up off the bench.

btw, progress is personal? wow, i might as well give up now if my progress means 5 lbs in a year increase. at this rate i should be in my late 40’s before i hit a 300 lb bench.

7

1.You really have no idea if these guys are natural or not. They can claim to be, but you really have no proof.

2.You say your bench hasn’t gone up and you sight your 5 rep max at 210. well if the weight on the bar is all your worried about, which is what your rant seems to be about, then why don’t you go ahead and do less reps and throw more weight up(very simple). you could also do some super poliquin accumulation program to zoom past your current plateau.

3.While your stack seems good, those Biotest supps aren’t the only ones on the market and if you’ve been on them consistently for a year, maybe switch it up for a month or two.

8

Obviously you’re pissed off at your lack of results, so why don’t you diver that anger into something productive – like evaluating your training.

The fact that you said you are doing everything perfect really pops out as a flaw to me. With regards to training/eating/lifestyle, I don’t think that one can ever reach perfect, but it is important to strive for that perfection.

Have you done enough back work? Do you have imbalances? Do you work your rotator cuffs? Have you taken time off of the flat bench to do variations?

This website has almost all of the information that a lifter needs, don’t blame your plateau on this website. Your training isn’t working – research and learn more so that you can identify the problems with your training.

Then fix it.

And Grow Stronger…

9

to JMajor-

I do reps of 3-5 on westside for skinny bastards. If I can’t gain strength off that, going lower isn’t going to help. I seem to flat out die in my sets on bench. For example, my last floor press ME day I went bar 5 reps, 95 lbs 5 reps, 135 lbs 5 reps, 185 lbs 5 reps, 205 5 reps, then I attempted 225 just 2 times to hopefully make 215 feel lighter, in which i barely got 225 3 times with some possible assistance from the spotter (very pissed that spotters always seem to want to lift it up for you). After this I tried 215 in which I barely got one rep. I take plenty of rest between sets, so I dont’ see how I burn out so fast.

to anthropocentric-
you know how they say a good way to test to see that you’re not too imbalanced on the front side from too much chest work is to test your 1 rep chinup max and it should line up with you bench max? well my chinup max is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than my bench (i’ve done 1 chinup with 90 lbs hanging at 175 lb bw, that’s what, 265 lbs? While my bench is at 230) I doubt that’s an imbalance except maybe the back being stronger.

And yes, i take time off to do variations, and guess what? if i do 3 weeks on flat bench and go to a variation for 2-3 weeks, I come back lifting the same amount i did the first week of the 3 weeks on flat. i realize that sounds dumb, but it’s dead true.

10

[quote]lifter85 wrote:
SBT wrote:
Your attitude is pure shit. Fix that first.

And stop comparing yourself to everyone else. You aren’t everyone else.

Progress is personal.

i really don’t need to hear the whole mental side of lifting, as i told myself before i lifted 315x5 i probably wouldn’t get it, but guess what, i did. know why? because for that movement, my size/strength was just simply capable of doing it. this whole mental thing is like saying someone who has benched 600 might not be able to lift 100 lbs if they don’t have their minds in it.

I realize the mind can take you far in terms of keeping in the game a long time and not swaying to other things or getting to bed on time or making sure to eat, but damnit, STOP THINKING YOUR MIND IS GONA GET YOU TO LIFT 100 MORE POUNDS OUT OF YOUR ASS!!! It doesn’t! I can pump myself up all I want for that lift, but if i’m not physically capable of doing it yet, no mind matter or shit is gona make me get it up short of lifting my butt up off the bench.

btw, progress is personal? wow, i might as well give up now if my progress means 5 lbs in a year increase. at this rate i should be in my late 40’s before i hit a 300 lb bench.[/quote]

Nice job taking what I said and sprinting to the extreme end of the spectrum with it.

We all want our progress to be better, I think that’s pretty clear. If what you’re doing doesn’t have you progressing at a reasonable pace, then it’s time to try something new.

Lifting is a journey and it’s all about finding what works the best for you.

Freaks will be freaks. We all can’t be so blessed.

11

Well, heres the thing. Everybody wants to do super mega-powerlifting garan-fuckin-teed to get the last bit of strength you have type of workouts, THAT AREN’T THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR THIER TRAINING AGE!

Why are you lifting in the 3-5 rep range?

12

I had a serious bench plateau a while ago. I fixed it by increasing my training frequency on the bench and increasing my sets, and then upping the weight, then upping the reps. It basically went like…

Monday: 3x10
Wednesday: 4x10
Friday: 5x10

Add 10 lbs to the bar

Monday: 3x10
Wednesday: 4x10
Friday: 5x10

Add 2 reps

Monday: 3x12
Wednesday: 4x12
Friday: 5x12

My starting bench poundage was 185 for 10 reps, 3 sets. The starting total work volume for bench was 5550.

The end result was that I was benching 195 for 12 reps, 5 sets. A total work volume of 7020.

My max increased from 230 to 265 in 3 weeks.

For 3 weeks, it was a decent increase. I think the key was to keep adding work on each training session.

13

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Well, heres the thing. Everybody wants to do super mega-powerlifting garan-fuckin-teed to get the last bit of strength you have type of workouts, THAT AREN’T THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR THIER TRAINING AGE!

Why are you lifting in the 3-5 rep range?
[/quote]

So this man is suggesting that after 17 months of lifting I am not ready for ws4sb. I guess all the girls that do this program aren’t ready for it either? I’m doing it to gain strength.

i’ve heard so many different things that i don’t know what to think anymore. first i see n00bs don’t need as much training, but that 3x a week short full body is best, then i hear n00bs need more volume and shit. apparently no one knows what they’re talking about.

14

Lifter,

First, are you doing this program because you want bigger muscles, or are you doing this program because you want to be a powerlifter?

I ask because, while WS4SB is a successful program and has produced good results for many lifters, if your goal is muscle, then perhaps it’s time to try something else.

Yes, strength is important and increasing load is important, but if mass is your primary goal, then strength should simply be a means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

You say you’ve plateaued on bench, is this the only lift you’ve plateaued on, or have you plateaued on all your lifts?

Also, are you gaining weight? You said that you are eating 4200 kcals per day. If you know this for a fact (you are keeping a detailed food log and really are taking in 4200 kcals per day) and you are not gaining weight, then quite simply you need to eat more.

Not eating enough to adequetely recover could be a possible reason why you’ve been progressing so slowly.

Good training,

Sentoguy

15

You have a point lifter, but take it easy you don’t want to alienate people here. Deload for two weeks at approx 60% volume (if you do 3 sets of X, change it to 2 and maybe drop the weight a bit too to drop a bit of intensity). You can take in less calories during this time.

Come back to the gym with a ferocity after this break. Also, consider switching flat bench out for decline and switch back squats w/ front squats. Switch up some of your supplementary exercises a bit. Good luck.

16

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Lifter,

First, are you doing this program because you want bigger muscles, or are you doing this program because you want to be a powerlifter?

I ask because, while WS4SB is a successful program and has produced good results for many lifters, if your goal is muscle, then perhaps it’s time to try something else.

Yes, strength is important and increasing load is important, but if mass is your primary goal, then strength should simply be a means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

You say you’ve plateaued on bench, is this the only lift you’ve plateaued on, or have you plateaued on all your lifts?

Also, are you gaining weight? You said that you are eating 4200 kcals per day. If you know this for a fact (you are keeping a detailed food log and really are taking in 4200 kcals per day) and you are not gaining weight, then quite simply you need to eat more.

Not eating enough to adequetely recover could be a possible reason why you’ve been progressing so slowly.

Good training,

Sentoguy[/quote]

Well I’ve heard if you want to get big you need to focus on strength first so you can get more hypertrophy (ex someone benching 135 10 times is gona have less hypertrophy than someone benching 225 10 times), so essentially they need to be working on strength first before hypertrophy.

To answer though, I’d like to get big of course, but also have strength.

Also, all my other lifts have gone up, except bench.

17

Tell me you are working your rotator cuffs or at least doing face pulls…

18

don’t ask for advice if you can’t handle constructive criticism, take it as a grain of salt. your obvioulsy doing alot wrong because not only is your bench weak, you couldn’t increase your max in a whole year. from what you’re saying, you do sets of 3-5 and thats wht i do and it works awesome for me so i guess i cant give you any advice besides eat more and lift heavy, the plataeu will eventually break it depends on how dedicated you are to breaking it.

and let me define detication so i dont here a smart ass remark from you. Dedication in lifting is striving to increase your physical capacity in a smart and planned regimen. not doing a bullshit routine day in and day out like you’ve been doing

19

[quote]anthropocentric wrote:
Tell me you are working your rotator cuffs or at least doing face pulls…[/quote]

doing scarecrows. basically the same thing.

20

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

Well I’ve heard if you want to get big you need to focus on strength first so you can get more hypertrophy (ex someone benching 135 10 times is gona have less hypertrophy than someone benching 225 10 times), so essentially they need to be working on strength first before hypertrophy.

To answer though, I’d like to get big of course, but also have strength.

Also, all my other lifts have gone up, except bench.[/quote]

Yes, increasing strength is an integral part of building muscle, I’m not arguing against that. I was asking just to make certain that your primary goal was muscle (as you didn’t specifically say that it was).

You are also correct that in order to put on large amounts of muscle, you must expose them to significantly higher levels of overload/weight. But, this does not have to be done in a powerlifting context (i.e. low reps, ME days, etc…). If you say started at 135 for 10 reps and just focused on increasing the load or doing more reps with the same load every time you hit the gym, then you would eventually get to 225 for 10 reps. You don’t need to lift powerlifting style in order to get stronger.

I realize that you were probably following the advice of someone with good intentions who pointed you in the direction of WS4SB, as once again it’s a successful program and has produced results in quite a few trainees. So, I’m not faulting you for following the program, nor am I contradicting the advice that you need to get stronger.

I’m simply saying that if you have indeed given the program an honest chance to work (which I would consider a year to be long enough of a chance) and it has not produced significant results, then perhaps you might want to try something else.

On the other hand, if all your other lifts have gone up, your weight has gone up and you are happy with the program (other than the bench), then perhaps another course of action is called for.

First, I’d agree with the poster who suggested to take a deloading period (I’d honestly suggest you might even want to take a complete break from lifting). Your CNS may need a break, and you may find that a couple weeks after coming back (or possibly even the first workout after) that you break through your plateau.

Second, while BB bench has a big ego component to it, and is one of the power lifts (hence the focus on it in a powerlifting inspired program like WS4SB), it’s not necessarily the best chest builder out there. Personally I feel that DB bench is a better chest builder and tends to be easier on my shoulder joints as well.

So, you might want to just give flat BB bench a break for a while (read months) and work on getting strong at a different bench variation (DB, inclines, machine). Keep progressing on that movement until you eventually hit a plateau with it (and you will, everyone does). At that point, you may decide that you either:

  1. want to try a different variation of bench (pick one)

  2. like DB’s for building chest more than BB (if you chose a DB variation)

  3. need to work on a specific part of your chest

Or, if you really want to you could go back to flat BB bench and once again work on improving it. Be warned that even at this point you probably won’t be lifting more than you are right now (though it’s possible that you might). But, you should have built some muscle in that time and should be able to top your current numbers in the bench in a fairly short period of time.

Once again, I’m not trying to confuse you or contradict that advice that has been given to you. You do need to get stronger if you want bigger muscles. Just realize that there is more than one way to go about doing that. And, if building muscle is your primary goal and the program you are currently on isn’t giving you the results you’re after, then perhaps it’s time to try something else.

Finally, before you do decide to change programs, make absolutely certain that your diet is in check (i.e. you are gaining weight consistently). If not, then fix that first. Honestly that should pretty much take care of the problem, but if it doesn’t then perhaps try switching routines.

Good training,

Sentoguy