Lifestyle Help, Diet and Training

Bigger Stronger Leaner Beginners
1

Hello everybody this is my first post here…I hope I can get a lil bit of help… I am 18 years old…about 5’9 and 172 lbs… ive been working out for…about 3 months and a half…altough i have worked out before like 3 months and then i quit for 6 months…but i just realized that if i dont change my lifestyle in general I wont get results…so i am takin this more seriously now…

the problem is that…Ive been looking for some help and I feel completely lost rite now… ok my goal is pretty much to get big and burn that fat in my abs…I do train a lot…i try to go 3 days on 1 off…one day chest and biceps…2nd day back and triceps and finally shoulders and legs…abs 4 times a week…i take creatine and whey twice a day…i dont know if thats rite…

since i have read many many different opinions…i want to change my routine and diet…but i dont know wut to do…i dont want to spend a lot of money buying proteins and all that stuff…wut should i do first? bulk up or cut? i feel like i need to burn fat…but i dont want to lose muscle…my diet is about…2000-3000 calories a day…PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!! i am tired of listening different opinions…even in my gym…cuz all they want is to sell me their fu…in products…

2

As you�??re a beginner; don�??t worry too much about the detail. You need to get the training habit first. Bulking or cutting? I�??d advise a �??semi-bulk�?? i.e. no force feeding, just get a basic 3 or 4days per week routine and concentrate on getting stronger (more weight or reps). As you put muscle on, your % bodyfat will decrease, even if the total weight of fat is constant (more muscle to spread it over).

Get a good knowledge base by reading a lot here, BUT don�??t swap and change your routine; like I said a basic routine (compound exercises) everybody knows what you �??shouldn�??t�?? eat so be sensible and don�??t beat yourself up if you have the odd treat (odd treat = one or two items a week, not per day).
If you get on with this and progress, stick with it for at least 6 months before introducing a major routine change.

Stick with it and let us know how tou progress.

3

[quote]Old Dax wrote:
As you�??re a beginner; don�??t worry too much about the detail. You need to get the training habit first. Bulking or cutting? I�??d advise a �??semi-bulk�?? i.e. no force feeding, just get a basic 3 or 4days per week routine and concentrate on getting stronger (more weight or reps). As you put muscle on, your % bodyfat will decrease, even if the total weight of fat is constant (more muscle to spread it over).

Get a good knowledge base by reading a lot here, BUT don�??t swap and change your routine; like I said a basic routine (compound exercises) everybody knows what you �??shouldn�??t�?? eat so be sensible and don�??t beat yourself up if you have the odd treat (odd treat = one or two items a week, not per day).
If you get on with this and progress, stick with it for at least 6 months before introducing a major routine change.

Stick with it and let us know how tou progress.[/quote]

This is great advice right here! Keep it simple, do you big compound moves and keep a decent diet. You are right. It doesn’t have to be all complicated.

Why don’t you post a typical training week??? I personally like Chad Waterbury’s programs to start with. About 45 minutes, in - out, big compound moves.

As far as the diet, a lot of people have made gains without all the supplements. I personally use some since I feel they enhance my gains. If you don’t, most of the guys like to get anywhere from 1g to 2g of protein per pound of body weight per day. Make sure you eat your carbs pre and post w/o. Good ones like oats or yams. Some fat is needed so don’t go overboard either way. Olive oil, flax, almond oil and things like avocados are great fat sources.

Good luck with your training and whatever you do, KISS principle goes a long way! If you’re interested in some training templates or a site to log your diet, send me a PM and I’d be more than happy to send them to you.

Susan

4

thank you so much =D here is my routine…
day one:

Chest:
Medium GRip Bench Press 8 x 5 starting with 135 then two sets of 155 and two of 175
Incline dumbbell press 8 x 5 (2 sets of 60, 1- 55, 2 x 50)
Cable Crossover 4 x 10 (25 - 27.5 - 30 x 2) > weight on each side.
Just started Butterfly…( 4 x 10 ) > 60

Biceps:
close grip EZ bar curl (4 x 10) 80 lbs.-75 -70- 65
Hammer Curls ( 4 x 10) 35 lbs
Machine Preacher Curls (4 x 10) 30- 40/arm
cable cross body curl…i dont know if thats the name… ( 4 x 10 ) 25 lbs./arm

Forearms:
Gripper

day 2:

Back
Seated Cable Rows ( 4 x 10) 135 lbs
Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown 4 x 10 165 lbs max startin with 135
i thought pullover was for lats…so i did…hmm 4 x 10 75lbsx2-75-85 to blast
Iso-Lateral Rowing (hammer) 5 x 8 (1 x 115lbs, 2 x 120, 1 x 115, 1 x 110) on each side…

tricep:

Seated dip (hammer) 4 x 10 ( 1x 110- 2x 100- 2 x 90) each side
close grip bench press 4 x 10 ( 1 x 115, 3 x 95)
Triceps pushdown v-bar attachment 5 x 8
Machine Tricep Extensions 4 x 10 ( 70 lbs)

Traps
Barbell shrug ( about 2 or 3 times a week)5 x 12

day 3:

Shoulders
Iso-lateral shoulder press (hammer) 5 x 8 (2 x 70, 2 x 60, 1 x50) each side
Front plate raise ( 4 x 10 ) 45 lbs.
Side lateral raise with internal rotation( 4 x 10) 25 lbs
Back Flies cable (4x10) 20 each side

LEgs
Lying Leg Curls (4 x 10)
Barbell Full Squats ( 5 x 10) 155 max pretty bad
Seated Calf raise
Leg Press 540 max ( 4 x 10)

i work abs…pretty much all the days i work out…but i want to change my abs routine…i want to focus in my lower abs…and sides
Today I started taking whey three times one after one before w.o and one before going to sleep tomorrow i will start to cycle creatine…altough i have taken it b4.
Comments please

5

Still think you should look into maybe a CW program or a good 5x5 program to start. You want to build mass and lean out a bit. Doing both at the same time is sometimes a bit tricky but can be done with the right diet.

I see a lot of curls! lol Personally, I wouldn’t BP twice in one week that close together. Also, you made the comment that you think your squat is pretty bad. Ever tried doing your squat first? It’ll make a difference. If you PM me your email, I’d be more than happy to send you some things to read.

I know that eventually I’ll catch some flack for the template thing but I don’t really care since it’s a good place to start for a beginner so I’m sticking to it. No point in getting all fancy right now. Just eat well, train hard and get enough rest.

Wackito, there are many much more informed people here who could probably give you much better advice than I can but I will share with you what’s worked for me okay?

Susan

6

thank youuuu i really appreciate ur help…

7

Very good advice given so far, man.
The following are a few things you might find helpful.

1st, you should stick to compound movements since they bring muscle growth and strength better than isolation.

2nd, if you have the option do your workouts standing. For example, curls and shoulder presses do them standing. The reason is when standing your entire torso has to kick in to “stabilize” you + the wieght. So your abs, obliques, rib cage muscles, etc, basically the “core”.

3rd, ALWAYS train HEAVY! And increase the weight. A simple 5X5 program is great

4th, vary your routine every 4-6 weeks because your body gets used it. You don’t have to change it completely just slight change will do. EX: Say you have been doing barbell bench presses, just switch to dumbells. See, simple things.

5th, take your fish Oil! Drink water, and get good sleep.

Now lets see some of the suggestions to your program:

For the Chest:
Bench Press, flat or incline, dumbell or barbell.
Dips (if you can, buy a weighted dip belt to add resistance, link:
Pushups (use bands, chains, keep your feet elevated for resistance)

…Butterflies and cable crossover are not as demanding as these 3, and do as much as these will do for you. Also, you should do your heavy Benching once a week, and you choose which of these variations you will do and how often.

For Biceps:
Dumbell or Barbell curls
Hammer Curls
…Do them standing.

For Forearms???
nor really, all the heavy lifting, pressing, holding you will do will beat your forearms.
BUT if you feel the need to train them, then DO IT.

For your Back
-PULL UPS and CHIN UPS! Best thing there is for your upper body, and hard to do too.
-Bent over barbell rows.
-Cable rows.
…and thier variations.

For your Triceps:
-Regular Dips, if you keep your body straight your triceps do most of the work. IF you tilt you body forward you chest kicks in more.
-Close grip bench press

Shoulders
Standing shoulder Press, behind or in front of the head.
Do any other rear deltoid workout if you feel the need for it.

All the bench pressing and pushups put also hit your shoulders.

LEgs
-Barbell Full Squats (parallel or ATG)
Learn to do Front squats and Overhead Squats, these are awesome variations of the Squat.
-DEADLIFTS!!! (and its variations)

For Abs:
-L. Holds from a pullups bar.
-ab wheel.
remember all the standing workouts, the pushups, the pull ups/chin ups, overhead/front squats also hit your abdominal area.

As suggested by Susan, always train LEGS 1st. Or if your not doing legs that particular day do the HARDEST thing 1st.

8

Well I’m going to type this and forget some details so if you have any questions just ask. First off to get big you need to try for 4000 calories plus every day. Healthy Calories. Then try and get at least a gallon to a gallon and a half of water a day. (especially when your taking creatine) I know it’s a lot to drink but get about 3-5 glasses of milk a day as well.

Get plenty of sleep for your body to recover. Try 8-10 hours, or as much as you can get. Also get 'bout 1 gram of protien per body weight pound a day. I didn’t really read anyones posts but your own so I’m going to just say this and hope I don’t repeat anyones ideas again.

If your just starting out as you say I’d go with a more simple workout plan. Like squats, deadlift, bench, and all the basic stuff. And if I were you, I’d do this… You had your chest day and biceps and then back day and triceps. I’d switch that around. I’d do triceps on chest day and biceps on back day. Your already working your triceps on chest day and your biceps on back day. They are already pumped after the basic workout so finish them off with some concentrated reps. I have no clue what these people are talking about like (Chad Waterburys workout) or w/e.

Personally I make my own program(s). The one I’m on is awesome, it has helped me gain 15 pounds of muscle already. So if you want, I can help you with a workout plan.

9

Old Dax and MsM give great advice. Use it. Therefore, I am going to stick to generalities. There are only 2 ways to keep getting bigger, stronger, and leaner through the years.

  1. is to change your lifestyle and BE CONSISTENT IN THE LONG RUN. The iron game is a marathon, not a sprint, so stay true to yourself in the long run. Use the rule of 90%–90% perfect for 10 years is better than 100% perfect for 10 weeks. Of course, that means you need to keep track of things (read: write down diet/training) to find out if you’re REALLY being 90% perfect, or just 40% perfect and 60% crappy.

  2. is to keep educating yourself–read everything and think critically about what you read (do you agree? disagree? why? What evidence do you have for your position?). Then keep an open mind–building your body into what you want is 50% science and 50% art. Sometimes the scientific studies don’t pan out in real life and the big bodybuilder was right.

Other times, the bodybuilder was being an idiot and the scientists were right. Besides, there’s an old proverb (paraphrased) that says “he who does not read is ignorant, but he who reads only what he agrees with is a fool”.

Big training keys–1) Biggest, hardest exercises first in the training session. Do them when you are freshest, b/c they are hardest. Stick mostly to compound movements, although finishing off your training with isolation stuff is cool. Just keep the focus on the big stuff–it also burns more fat than small exercises(example–squats vs. leg extension).

  1. Avoid machines for the majority of your training. They have their place, but it’s very limited, and they have a very big possibility of predisposing you to injury later in life. You should avoid them 90% of the time. Although they do come in handy for a burnout set at the end of a training session.

  2. Pay attention to the muscles you CAN’T see in the mirrors (just in case you’re wondering–they are the back, rear delts, low traps, glutes, and hamstrings). They move the biggest weight, burn the most fat, keep you healthiest, and make you the strongest.

  3. Don’t be a wimp in the kitchen. I admit, this is often the one that guys (including me) struggle with the most, but you can’t out-train a poor diet. A good diet, on the other hand, may help you make progress on an otherwise lackluster training program. This means eating clean foods, protein with every meal and snack, and healthy fats. It also means veggies and fiber. Further, it means keeping track of your food intake. The only way to adjust your calories to lose fat or gain muscle is to know how many calories you’re getting in the first place. Think like a scientist.

  4. Experiment with stuff. Find out what works for you. This a years long process, and often what works for you is also prone to change from time to time. But it’s the only way to really figure out the BS vs. the real stuff. And it’s the ONE thing in common with all successful trainees and champions, regardless of sport or goals. Besides, what an author writes may or may not apply to you as a beginner, intermedieate, or advanced trainee.

10

Hey thank you guyz for everything, I have been talking with Msm and send me a sheet with all the CW’s routines…she recommended me the ABBHI… so I just want to get different opinions about this one…since I have been readin a lot…and people actually believe is a great routine…but I dont know if thats the correct for me tho…since it seems not too much work…

I am used to work out a lot…in the last 3 months I worked out 2 - 3 hours per day 6 days a week…On the other hand, it seems that I am going to spend like 20 minutes on each day of the ABBHI…besides,can I begin with ABBHII instead? should I add more exercises?..isolated ones…or not?

I read that CW doesnt recommend that…but he also said that if you want to do that it shouldnt be a problem…wut about the abs?..i read all his theories…and they do make sense to me but I just want to make sure that this works for a semi bulking-cutting program…

11

[quote]wackito wrote:
Hey thank you guyz for everything, I have been talking with Msm and send me a sheet with all the CW’s routines…she recommended me the ABBHI… so I just want to get different opinions about this one…since I have been readin a lot…and people actually believe is a great routine…but I dont know if thats the correct for me tho…since it seems not too much work…
[/quote]

Do it as written. If it doesn’t feel like much work, you did it wrong. You either used weights that were too light, weights that were too heavy and didn’t complete al the sets, used pussy isolation/machine/pulldown exercises, or you didn’t time your rest intervals and ended up taking 2+ minutes of rest between each exercise.

As for abs, he’s got you training them twice a week. If you train them hard, that should be enough on this program. Remember, you’re not training to failure, except MAYBE on the last rep of the last set of the last exercise for that bodypart. And remember to do the progression he wrote in that article for subsequent weeks.

12

Hey, thanks Aragorn! Back at ya! Great advice.

Wackito, ABBH1 is only what I would suggest you begin with. There are many good programs. If you want to build size, it will do that.

You say that you’ve been working out 2-3 hrs per day, six days a week. That’s a huge part of the problem right there. You say yourself that you’re not happy with it. If you think you can do ABBH1 in 20 minutes, you’re not doing it right. lol Day one doesn’t seem like much. Wait til the end when your weight goes up. Don’t forget your 1RM will go up every week.

As far as isolated moves, they do have a purpose. If you want to add some in at the END of your w/o, go ahead. Whatever makes you happy.

Far as the abs go, when you do thing like deadlifts and bent over rows, they will work your abs really good, trust me.

Not to hijack your thread here but I’ll give you an idea of what I’ve done in the last four months.

-put on 15lbs (that was my goal)
-up 50lbs on my bench
-up 100lbs on my deadlift
-up 100lbs on my squat

Now I use a West Side program which is for powerlifting and I’m not suggesting you do that if that’s not what you want to do. Just saying if you want to be big and strong, you ain’t gonna do it with 4 kinds of curls a day.

Now the diet, it is VERY hard to put on lean muscle mass without a little fat unless your diet is perfect. You have to accept a little body fat when you get bigger and you can always drop it after. Depends on how dedicated you are.

Bottom line is, pick something and do it. You’ll accomplish a lot more that way than reading for weeks about what program you should try. Training using a particular routine is not permanent. If it’s not working for you…change it! Just try something and give it some time and a chance to work for you.

No matter what you end up doing, give it your all. Like Aragorn said, be consistent.

Good luck to you:)

Susan

13

Follow the program, if it seems easy up the weight,

working out 6 days a week for 2-3 hours is not the way to go, plus as much as I love training I don’t want to spend 15-18 hours a week in the gym! This ain’t my job!

I think everyone when they first start out think more is better, (I wasted all my years as a teen doing this) and we all end up spending to much time in the gym with not enough rest, we grow when we are resting not in the gym!!!

The best thing I ever did was start a Waterbury program, and started eating a ton. By following and completing it I got to know my body a lot better and see how everything works, I now have progressed to the point where I understand it all to make my own programs (Westside based, tailored for strongman)

If you don’t make good gains with this program there is two things that could have went wrong.

Not enough intensity while training, (not pushing yourself enough)

Not enough food/bad food choices.

There is no perfect program but their are plenty of good ones.

Just eat big, lift heavy, sleep alot and have fun when your friends and family don’t recognize you anymore at Christmas.

14

hahaha yeah thats what i am trying to do…thank you so much…today is the first day…I am gonna start figuring out my 1RM…I will post my progress thank you very much yall.

15

Sweet:) You had me worried for a minute there. Just a minute though. (Just teasing you btw.)

You can do it. I have faith in ya.

Susan

16

[quote]wackito wrote:
hahaha yeah thats what i am trying to do…thank you so much…today is the first day…I am gonna start figuring out my 1RM…I will post my progress thank you very much yall.[/quote]

Good stuff man, keep us updated, just remember what you want and go and get it, its not an easy road but it is a rewarding one.

Post any questions you have

17

i just got back from the gym…it took me about 40 minutes…so… these are my results:

  • Flat BB Bench Press 10 x 3 (155=80% of 1RM)1RM= 195 I guess…I did that be4 the whole workout…
  • BB Rows 10 x 3 (115) 1RM= 145 I am doubtful about that one…since it was my first time doing the BB Row…but I guess my reps were solid…lol

I dont know if I am mesuring my 1RM correctly…do I have to do that be4 every single day?..the whole workout took me about 40-50 minutes…before I forget…I have to rest 60 sec. after each set rite? 1 Flat BB…60 sec…1BB Row…60 sec…until I reach 10 sets per exercise…is that rite?

18

good work man!

You shouldn’t test out your 1 rep maxes before every workout, Id suggest testing out the squat and deadlift over the weekend, since you don’t know 100% what your maxes are I wouldnt stick to the percentages 100% if it seems light add 5 or 10lbs towards the end of sets or lighten it, etc.

I am not to familiar with this exact program but I’ll look into it tomorrow and try to answer your questions.

19

[quote]MsM wrote:
Sweet:) You had me worried for a minute there. Just a minute though. (Just teasing you btw.)

You can do it. I have faith in ya.

Susan[/quote]

hahaha nooo Msm… I will follow wut I promised…I am adding some…isolated tho…but that flat bench was incredible…I almost reach failure but I didnt

20

wut should I do tomorrow…? rest? I am not tired lol…