Levrone is Back!

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Wow, after thousands of tablets of Dianabol surely I’d better go get checked for hepatic peliosis.

LOL, the reason I posted that is to show there is research. Don’t think people aren’t trying to get answers to the questions that are out there.

The problem is that human ethics committees won’t let you do the research as they are afraid of the potential risks even if you put good monitoring processes in place.

Hell, caffeine and sugar in sufficient doses will cause problems too LOL[/quote]

x2 what Bill said haha.

That’s exactly my point though GG, they won’t do long term studies, and since they won’t everything is pretty much speculation. Yes there are risks but the side effects are easily avoided if you have done any research whatsoever.

yes if I take 50mg of Dbol for 10 weeks straight I’ll probably have some liver issues. But for me to do that would be completely against all educated advice and the number of people who actually do that are very few. It’s really not an issue.

K I’m done hijacking, as you were!

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Silkdagger wrote:
B: I wanted to know IF you could do it natural as the side effects of roids with out one hell of a doctor to keep you healthy and even then are VERY bad, are well documented.

HAHAHAHA Classic.

Please, feel free to link a well documented study on steroid use that shows all these VERY bad side effects.

You and your ignorance can either gtfo or stop talking about things you don’t know shit about, thanks.

I never new HRT was in fact killing people, those bastards tricked us![/quote]

here you go.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html
“Benign (adenoma’s) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma’s, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.”

now like I flippin said I dont CARE if he is, I just wondered if any one knew? because no matter what its impressive. so drop your kill the roids hater crusade, and READ the whole thing. not just the part you dont like. any one have an answer to my question or n0t?

[quote]Silkdagger wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Silkdagger wrote:
B: I wanted to know IF you could do it natural as the side effects of roids with out one hell of a doctor to keep you healthy and even then are VERY bad, are well documented.

HAHAHAHA Classic.

Please, feel free to link a well documented study on steroid use that shows all these VERY bad side effects.

You and your ignorance can either gtfo or stop talking about things you don’t know shit about, thanks.

I never new HRT was in fact killing people, those bastards tricked us!

here you go.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html
“Benign (adenoma’s) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma’s, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.”

now like I flippin said I dont CARE if he is, I just wondered if any one knew? because no matter what its impressive. so drop your kill the roids hater crusade, and READ the whole thing. not just the part you dont like. any one have an answer to my question or n0t?

[/quote]

This is why I hate it when laypeople start quoting scientific studies. Most do not understand how important words like MAY and POSSIBLE are when written in this way. That doesn’t even get into how the bias of the conductors of the study has traditionally shined through into the data received.

You can essentially find a study somewhere saying just about anything you want it to.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cprimero wrote:
“If I can do it, you can do it!”- er… actually Kevin

He’s getting back into he shape he was in through most of his life when he was younger. Yes, most people can do that. Unfortunately, so few ever push themselves hard enough to actually be in any outstanding condition that they should have even less of a journey to get back to it.

Muscle memory doesn’t just work for Kevin…but the muscle had to be there in the first place to gain it back.

I doubt we have to worry about too many Abercrombie kiddies ever having enough muscle to begin with.[/quote]

Agreed. People keep ignoring this whole thing and just go “OMGOMG Kevin’s on da roidz gain 5 pounds a week”.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Cprimero wrote:
“If I can do it, you can do it!”- er… actually Kevin

He’s getting back into he shape he was in through most of his life when he was younger. Yes, most people can do that. Unfortunately, so few ever push themselves hard enough to actually be in any outstanding condition that they should have even less of a journey to get back to it.

Muscle memory doesn’t just work for Kevin…but the muscle had to be there in the first place to gain it back.

I doubt we have to worry about too many Abercrombie kiddies ever having enough muscle to begin with.

Agreed. People keep ignoring this whole thing and just go “OMGOMG Kevin’s on da roidz gain 5 pounds a week”.
[/quote]

If people new anything about Kevin or how he trained I think it would quiet a lot of these idiots.

[quote]Silkdagger wrote:

here you go.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html
“Benign (adenoma’s) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma’s, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.”

now like I flippin said I dont CARE if he is, I just wondered if any one knew? because no matter what its impressive. so drop your kill the roids hater crusade, and READ the whole thing. not just the part you dont like. any one have an answer to my question or n0t?

[/quote]

Yep, like I said no wonder you guys get pissed. Buddy, this isn’t evidence. It’s not even a study. Its a summary piece about the issue written in an encyclopaedia 11 years ago, which only cited evidence from position stands and opinion pieces, not experimental evidence. And all of those were nearly a decade old as well. This is quite a biased piece of writing favoring public opinion over scientific evidence.

This neglects the significant progress being made in AAS research in the last decade, hell even the decade before that, which clearly outlines what we know, but also clearly shows what we don’t know.

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Silkdagger wrote:

here you go.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html
“Benign (adenoma’s) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma’s, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.”

now like I flippin said I dont CARE if he is, I just wondered if any one knew? because no matter what its impressive. so drop your kill the roids hater crusade, and READ the whole thing. not just the part you dont like. any one have an answer to my question or n0t?

Yep, like I said no wonder you guys get pissed. Buddy, this isn’t evidence. It’s not even a study. Its a summary piece about the issue written in an encyclopaedia 11 years ago, which only cited evidence from position stands and opinion pieces, not experimental evidence. And all of those were nearly a decade old as well. This is quite a biased piece of writing favoring public opinion over scientific evidence.

This neglects the significant progress being made in AAS research in the last decade, hell even the decade before that, which clearly outlines what we know, but also clearly shows what we don’t know.
[/quote]

Yup. This provides no evidence whatsoever. It says there were “reports” aka rumors, and “indications” aka rumors.

Not a training video, but something that separates the good from the great.

Cool, that was a good video. I take the visualization thing to a smaller level too, visualizing myself doing lifts successfully in my work sets before I do them.

Must look like an idiot in the gym, but I’ll usually just sit down on a bench and close my eyes and visualize the lift, imagine the feeling I’m going to get, imagine what the drive is going to feel like when I’m digging out of the hole in a squat or driving through the sticky point in a bench. Only do this for the big lifts, but I think it gets me in a good state where I know I’m going to stick the lift!!

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Silkdagger wrote:

here you go.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html
“Benign (adenoma’s) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma’s, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.”

now like I flippin said I dont CARE if he is, I just wondered if any one knew? because no matter what its impressive. so drop your kill the roids hater crusade, and READ the whole thing. not just the part you dont like. any one have an answer to my question or n0t?

Yep, like I said no wonder you guys get pissed. Buddy, this isn’t evidence. It’s not even a study. Its a summary piece about the issue written in an encyclopaedia 11 years ago, which only cited evidence from position stands and opinion pieces, not experimental evidence. And all of those were nearly a decade old as well. This is quite a biased piece of writing favoring public opinion over scientific evidence.

This neglects the significant progress being made in AAS research in the last decade, hell even the decade before that, which clearly outlines what we know, but also clearly shows what we don’t know.
[/quote]

Yes this is why people who value level headed thinking end up getting very upset. There are far worse posts put up over the subject too. Point taken on the experimental study. I assumed it was a meta-analysis as just about everything else is a case study or meta-study.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

Yes this is why people who value level headed thinking end up getting very upset. There are far worse posts put up over the subject too. Point taken on the experimental study. I assumed it was a meta-analysis as just about everything else is a case study or meta-study.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about some shit-ass posts on this subject by people just jumping on AAS use cause its the popular thing to bag. The thing about your assumption is that usually you’d be right!! The study this other fella posted isn’t a study, just an overview using opinion pieces and position stands as evidence!!

What did you think about the visualization post from Levrone?

Does anyone else practice imagery in their training? I think (might get this wrong), but Shaq put it best when he talked about dreamful attraction (or something like that) in his autobiography.

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Aragorn wrote:

Yes this is why people who value level headed thinking end up getting very upset. There are far worse posts put up over the subject too. Point taken on the experimental study. I assumed it was a meta-analysis as just about everything else is a case study or meta-study.

Totally agree with you about some shit-ass posts on this subject by people just jumping on AAS use cause its the popular thing to bag. The thing about your assumption is that usually you’d be right!! The study this other fella posted isn’t a study, just an overview using opinion pieces and position stands as evidence!!

What did you think about the visualization post from Levrone?

Does anyone else practice imagery in their training? I think (might get this wrong), but Shaq put it best when he talked about dreamful attraction (or something like that) in his autobiography.[/quote]

I thought it was interesting. Pretty useful I think, but maybe more so for bodybuilders to build that mind/muscle link. Strength athletes probably visualize their performances and the general feel of the weight, but I don’t know that it would have the same effect.

Fuck it, I think you guys will be interested in this,

Int J Sports Med 2008; 29: 679-687
DOI: 10.1055/s-2007-96580

Side Effects of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids Abuse

A. Bonetti1, F. Tirelli1, A. Catapano2, D. Dazzi3, A. Dei Cas3, F. Solito1, G. Ceda3, C. Reverberi4, C. Monica5, S. Pipitone5, G. Elia6, M. Spattini1, G. Magnati3

Long-term side effects of high doses of anabolic androgenic steroids self-administration were evaluated in this study. Twenty male bodybuilders, voluntarily starting steroid self-administration, were followed every 6 months over 2 years. Physical examination, haematological, metabolic and endocrine variables, semen analysis, hepatic and prostate ultrasound and echocardiographic evaluations were performed. LH values (baseline 3.43 �± 1.75) were suppressed at 18 (1.98 �± 1.99) (p = 0.026) and 24 (2.43 �± 2.17) (p = 0.026), and FSH (3.95 �± 2.01) at 6 (3.01 �± 2.16) (p = 0.031), 12 (2.45 �± 2.54) (p = 0.029), 18 (2.02 �± 2.29) (p = 0.032) and 24 (3.42 �± 2.64) (p = 0.032) months and SHBG (34.11 �± 10.88) values significantly lowered at 12 (24.81 �± 12.49) (p < 0.05), 18 (21.28 �± 11.15) (p < 0.01), 24 months (25.42 �± 11.16) (p < 0.01). A significant decrease in spermatozoa count (p < 0.01), and fertility index (p = 0.01) occurred. HDL-cholesterol (baseline 56.94 �± 13.54) was reduced at 18 (41.86 �± 14.17) (p < 0.01) and 24 (43.82 �± 18.67) (p < 0.05) months and Apo A-1 at 12 (p < 0.001), 18 (p = 0.05) and 24 (p = 0.05) months. The most important long-term adverse effects were lower fertility and the impairment of lipid profile associated with an increased cardiovascular risk.

Other important parts from discussion,
RE: insulin sensitivity

Decrease in plasma glucose and insulin levels with the consequent reduction of insulin resistance (HOMA) is not consistent with the reported anti-insulin effects of AAS. Such a reduction of insulin resistance cannot be due only to the well-known effects of physical exercise [8] as training loads remained unaltered during the whole follow-up period. A possible explanation for the improved insulin sensitivity may be due to the increased muscle mass and decreased adipose mass. Peripheral glucose uptake is directly correlated to lean mass [4], [25] and steroids play a fundamental role in regional adipose tissue redistribution.

RE: liver health (you guys will love this one)

Even considering the possibility of ultra-structural hepatic modifications not associated with abnormal liver function tests, AAS hepatotoxicity is probably overestimated [7], [16]. In our study, liver ultrasound examination was negative for peliosis, hepatocellular adenomas or carcinomas. Hepatomegaly and steatosis revealed at the first visit was unchanged during the study, and it may be compatible with the very high protein intake. No clinical study has yet demonstrated a conclusive link between AAS use and increased incidence of liver cancer and many reports of AAS-associated hepatoma have been anecdotic cases [3], [7], [28], [50].

Study limitations

Methodological limitations are necessarily linked to the experimental conditions and to the study design: recruitment criteria and heterogeneity of study sample; diversity in the compounds used, doses, duration, treatment (cycling and staking), and route of administration; possible interactions with other commonly-used drugs. Moreover, we took for granted the information on the drugs disclosed by manufacturers; no quality control to check if the products were actually in their announced concentration and on their purity was performed. Despite the limitations imposed by the experimental conditions, the study offers as novel elements the recruitment of a considerable number of subjects and the rather long follow-up.

Conclusions
This study is an on-the-field examination of drugs being introduced into a muscle-enhancing programme. Our investigation peers into the world of gyms and bodybuilding, which has often been investigated, but about which it is difficult to gather information because of the conspiracy of silence surrounding the use of illegal substances. Most researches conducted to date have generally been concerned with a limited sample size and/or the use of low doses of AAS or high doses but for a short time period.
The main issues arising are:

risks associated with pharmacological interactions due to a wide combination of self-administered drugs;

atherogenic modifications in the lipid profile. These changes are asymptomatic and therefore do not constitute a disincentive to the use of these substances, despite fatalities among bodybuilders who used AAS, together with life-threatening arrhythmias;

sexual changes (hypogonadism associated to testicular atrophy and low sperm count, gynaecomastia), although affecting 80 % of subjects, were less severe than those reported in the literature. This is possibly explained by the method of AAS self-administration (cycling) and to chorionic gonadotropin use.

The picture emerging is one of a knowledgeable population of users integrated into a subculture of clandestine use of drugs, able to manipulate substances in order to maximise the advantages and minimise the disadvantages.

If any of you want the full article PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

Only the serious guys though thanks, none of the dickheads who frequent this site.

Anyway, back on topic, I think that the imagery with exercise calms me down a bit before lifting.

I always write out my session before i lift, and i have last weeks session beside me. So before i go to the gym i have that in my mind, i have planted the the thought/idea/concept of me doing a certain number of reps with a certain weight. Then before my lift, i dunno how i do this but i get my mind ready to handle some serious intensity… So before i even touch the weight my mind is fuckin racing and it just makes my body ready to go fuckin flat out on the set.

I havent really painted a picture of me in the future, im gonna get on that. Im 170 now, gonna start painting 180. Im gonna look fuckin sick at 180 and then roll on 190.

The visualization is something I was always taught by coaches in sports and just brought it into the weightroom. Gotta break that subconscious mind and prevent it from limiting you.


Levrone posted progress pics on his site. This is him at the end of the first week.

This is at the end of the second week. Progress was clearly made. I think he should have used the same lighting that was used in the first week. Hopefully the lighting and camera angle will not continually change throughout the transformation.

On a second look his progress is quite impressive. His lat width has noticeably improved along with a shrinking waist line. It could be how he is standing (Chest out, gut in) but IMO he looks much better already. Hopefully he will post some measurements over the course of the next few weeks, along with some pics of the wheels.