Lodestone? As in you’re attracted to iron?
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
What would be the point of having a horsecock dude rape your wife rather than a regular dude? It seems to be an important facet of the whole horror of it that is tied into insecurities. [/quote]
I don’t even know what to say about this. lol[/quote]
I actually used to think about this some. During a certain military school I found out the extents of torture. The reality is that guys are raped as a part of torture in certain countries. It’s more horrifying to be raped by a horse cocked guy than it would be a normal sized guy for a man. Both are horrible but one is definitely worse.
There are other things that factor in like race. So the stereotype is that black men are very well hung, and for a lot of men one of the most scary sticks in our justice system is prison, and the idea of getting raped by a big black man. That’s just a reality and stereotype of our society and justice system. I think it’s a reason some people are insecure about black men. I recently heard this, “Once you go black, we won’t take you back.” Said about white women who date black men by a white guy, and obvious pun on, “Once you go black you never go back.” A more recent one I’ve heard is just women who are more sexually liberated, “She’s been run through by all kinds of fools.”
You want to know what I used to believe would be a great way of getting Islamic terrorists to spill the beans? A big masculine black guy with a huge black erection and the threat of rape, along with some pork grease. The reason is because it’s the most horrifying and most threatening thing I could imagine in that it threatens control, manhood, and faith in that persons psychology. It’s a sort of violation of manhood, because like it or not on some levels life is a dick measuring contest. Not a lot of guys are comfortable whipping it out to get measured though…
You see, it’s one of the biggest insecurities men have because of the way it’s literally, figuratively and evolutionarily tied to manhood.
[/quote]
Sorry accidental post. In my original reply I just noticed that I had a typo that said “let the chops fall where they may”, so I was trying to fix it without anyone noticing. Now of course I have an entire extra paragraph highlighting my embarrassing blunder.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Hockey and I had a talk about the money thing last weekend. We mock-argue over checks about half the time, which takes various forms and is mostly fun and contest-oriented (e.g. “the chopstick mini corn toss”). I would say where it stands now is that I pay about 25% of the total money spent on food, both cooked at home and eaten out, mostly by getting occasional breakfasts, lunches, and inexpensive dinners.
So we were debating over breakfast Sunday and I must have said an “it’s not fair” because he’d paid for an expensive dinner the night before. He hit me with “Okay, so if we’re going to be completely fair, does that mean that you’re going to open my door half the time and do half the driving?” I of course offered to open his car door half the time (“I’ll take summers, you take winter!”). The driving, not so much. Partly because he feels that I don’t pay adequate attention and am slip-shoddy in my driving habits (I’m an excellent driver and have not been in an accident, however I am distractible and will occasionally forget where I’m going) (plus I think it’s a control thing with him). Partly because I’m lazy and am more likely to be impaired by a couple of glasses of wine.
ANYWAY, so we let it drop and went hiking and I was thinking about it. It’s all very confusing, no? I’ve read so much “women will fuck you over” stuff on here and elsewhere, along with a general sense that we’re expensive lode stones, and I don’t want to be that. But to hear him indicate that I’m being inconsistent in my feminism/femininity. . . urgh.
So when we stopped I brought it back up and explained that I don’t want to pay because I want equality - I don’t care about that in this context - but because I don’t want to take advantage of him or be a burden. He said he wouldn’t do it if he didn’t want to.
And now I still don’t know where we are.
[/quote]
Feminism is the biggest woody-killer of all time. Do you really think that just because you buy an equal amount of dinners or hold the door for a guy that it will undo a hundred thousand years of evolution? When he gave you the preposterous scenario of letting you hold the door for him, HE WAS JOKING. No man in his right mind would accept that. We would have to revoke his “man-card”. I mean it’s “cute”, but it can be taken too far. In fact it gets to the point where it’s mildly annoying.
Despite popular cultural thought these days, men and women are different. Not saying one is better than the other, but to ignore the differences and pretending that masculine and feminine roles don’t exist (or should be ignored) is silly. Especially in courtship and dating. The workplace is a different conversation entirely.
Most men (as in guys who can call themselves MEN) of my generation have a certain set of values. We LIKE taking our woman out to dinner and paying for it. We LIKE spoiling her if she deserves it. We LIKE caring for and providing cool experiences for them. We work hard, have the income and assets to spare and we LIKE to share that with our partner. It’s not a burden. It’s a privilege if it’s the right woman. Then you go and throw in the feminist psycho-babble… Was Hockey’s reaction positive when you did this? I doubt it. I’ll bet he felt a little emasculated by your attempt to throw his perceived “role” in the relationship a curve ball. Just relax! Let him be a man. ENJOY IT…
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Lodestone? As in you’re attracted to iron?[/quote]
Oops - what am I trying to say? What’s the stone that drags you down?
Edit: millstone! lol
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Hockey and I had a talk about the money thing last weekend. We mock-argue over checks about half the time, which takes various forms and is mostly fun and contest-oriented (e.g. “the chopstick mini corn toss”). I would say where it stands now is that I pay about 25% of the total money spent on food, both cooked at home and eaten out, mostly by getting occasional breakfasts, lunches, and inexpensive dinners.
So we were debating over breakfast Sunday and I must have said an “it’s not fair” because he’d paid for an expensive dinner the night before. He hit me with “Okay, so if we’re going to be completely fair, does that mean that you’re going to open my door half the time and do half the driving?” I of course offered to open his car door half the time (“I’ll take summers, you take winter!”). The driving, not so much. Partly because he feels that I don’t pay adequate attention and am slip-shoddy in my driving habits (I’m an excellent driver and have not been in an accident, however I am distractible and will occasionally forget where I’m going) (plus I think it’s a control thing with him). Partly because I’m lazy and am more likely to be impaired by a couple of glasses of wine.
ANYWAY, so we let it drop and went hiking and I was thinking about it. It’s all very confusing, no? I’ve read so much “women will fuck you over” stuff on here and elsewhere, along with a general sense that we’re expensive lode stones, and I don’t want to be that. But to hear him indicate that I’m being inconsistent in my feminism/femininity. . . urgh.
So when we stopped I brought it back up and explained that I don’t want to pay because I want equality - I don’t care about that in this context - but because I don’t want to take advantage of him or be a burden. He said he wouldn’t do it if he didn’t want to.
And now I still don’t know where we are.
[/quote]
Feminism is the biggest woody-killer of all time. Do you really think that just because you buy an equal amount of dinners or hold the door for a guy that it will undo a hundred thousand years of evolution? When he gave you the preposterous scenario of letting you hold the door for him, HE WAS JOKING. No man in his right mind would accept that. We would have to revoke his “man-card”. I mean it’s “cute”, but it can be taken too far. In fact it gets to the point where it’s mildly annoying.
Despite popular cultural thought these days, men and women are different. Not saying one is better than the other, but to ignore the differences and pretending that masculine and feminine roles don’t exist (or should be ignored) is silly. Especially in courtship and dating. The workplace is a different conversation entirely.
Most men (as in guys who can call themselves MEN) of my generation have a certain set of values. We LIKE taking our woman out to dinner and paying for it. We LIKE spoiling her if she deserves it. We LIKE caring for and providing cool experiences for them. We work hard, have the income and assets to spare and we LIKE to share that with our partner. It’s not a burden. It’s a privilege if it’s the right woman. Then you go and throw in the feminist psycho-babble… Was Hockey’s reaction positive when you did this? I doubt it. I’ll bet he felt a little emasculated by your attempt to throw his perceived “role” in the relationship a curve ball. Just relax! Let him be a man. ENJOY IT…
[/quote]
I know he was joking about the door! I was joking back, offering to open his sometimes!
I told him after realizing that he perceives my motive as being “equality” that this isn’t my issue at all, rather that I don’t want him to feel taken advantage of. Then I hiked some more and thought some more and returned again to the subject and told him more clearly that I don’t care about feminism in our relationship - that’s for at work, not home - and said I just don’t want to be a burden.
But then we returned to climbing up our mountain, which for me means smashing my head into trees and falling on my fractured arm and sliding down muck, and I’m not sure where we left it. So how do I know where the chips should fall?
I did check in later about whether he wants me to drive more. He said no, so okay.
Also, later that day I found him outside, where he was fixing my porch swing, to tell him that I’d changed my mind about not taking advantage of him or being a burden because there was a dead mouse in my living room. He took care of it and praised Daisy for her skill and bravery (I would have discouraged it, personally).
I’m not trying to have two men in my relationship. All of you yell at men who pay for stuff on dates! I’m just trying to do the right stuff.
I am feeling embarrased.
Deeply, deeply embarrased. Also, happy and free, but also embarrased, though not embarrassingly happy.
I think its time that we dissect this orion fellow, because not only does he deserve it, he should also being able to take it, considering what he dishes out, plus, it could be very instructive.
There is a book by Dr Robert Glover "No more Mr Nice Guy). I knew about it, but I never gave it much attention, because well, I was not a “Nice Guy” anyway, we all know not to act beta and so further and so on. Nothing to see here…
Except for the fact that there was. Probably somewhat inspired by the comments to my reaction to that sorority mass murder attempt and because I read it at just the right time it clicked.
I had (maybe still have to some degree) the exact same script running that those Nice Guys have.
In case noone has read the book, he states that those guys have been abandoned by their fathers, or at least it feels that way, so they kind of enter into a covert contract with the universe to be extra nice to especially women (even more especially, their mother) so that they would not be abandoned again and that so they would fulfill their needs.
If these coverts and subconscious contracts are reinforced by the instinctive, atavistic fear of death total abandonment would mean for a child you have a very strongly shielded view of the world that becomes part of your core personality.
Now, obviously, when I tried this script on girls back then, insta friendzoning.
But then, I discovered Game! I think what I was trying to do was something like this: “Hey, I have a covert contract! Turns out, women have covert contracts too! Lets see whether I could get my contract signed by signing theirs!” Same script, different approach.
The problem is though that Glover writes that there is no such thing as a relationship where only one partner is damaged. Its always both and those disfunctions are not the same, they complement each other. So, emotional healthy women would leave quite soon, the rest was as damaged as I was.
Enter my nemesis, the emotional vampire. Me and the emotional vampire were the perfect fit, because were I would give to get, they would take, take, take, to fill the void in their soul where their heart should be. Also, if they not did give back I would try even harder ,which, in a weird way, trained them to give as little as possible.
When I tried my little experiment with writing her part of a book for a woman in exchange for sex, which really started out not as an attempt to have sexual access, but as a giant fuck you, I think I needed to see what happened. What I actually did was making my covert contract explicitly overt and on some level I must have expected her to break that contract and I think I wanted her to.
I must have known by then that it could not work, but I needed to see it.
This is also why the way this society operates made me so angry. Bitches are making my covert contract impossible! O_O !!! Not that I take anything back, I think my observations are spot on, but my emotional reaction to it was because of deep seated issues on my part.
I knew for a fact that my little script could neither work for me nor for any other man and I had nothing to replace it with.
Takeaway points:
-
I would take anything I have said about women with a grain of salt, because I myself, not neccesarily through my own fault, made sure I had the worst experiences possible with them.
-
On the other hand, when it comes to crazy bitches, especially emotional succubi, you name it, I have done it. So if I tell someone to run, hell, I would run. And, there are a lot of them…
-
Since there were women who rejected me because I was deeply, deeply flawed/misguided/ I dont know because they were far more mature and emotionally healthy than I was, I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
-
Even if the unthinkable happens, she will of course sign a prenup. Its not like I suddenly dropped half of my IQ points, people change.
-
To the women who were emotionally sound, I wish them all the best. Dropping me was the right thing to do.
-
To the women who were not, I wish them the best too and I think it is kind of sad that they live in a society where you do not have to face your demons if you are female and purdy. Youth and beauty always wanes and I take no pleasure in the knowledge that in a few short years they will be angry, bitter and alone or together with a man they can barely tolerate.
I thought that I was already at the acceptance stage, but I was still riding the anger, depression, bargaining rollercoaster.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
Feels that way.
[quote]orion wrote:
I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
[/quote]
Good!
But just out of curiosity, what does Mr. Glover say about men who were abandoned by their mother?
[quote]orion wrote:
I am feeling embarrased.
Deeply, deeply embarrased. Also, happy and free, but also embarrased, though not embarrassingly happy.
I think its time that we dissect this orion fellow, because not only does he deserve it, he should also being able to take it, considering what he dishes out, plus, it could be very instructive.
There is a book by Dr Robert Glover "No more Mr Nice Guy). I knew about it, but I never gave it much attention, because well, I was not a “Nice Guy” anyway, we all know not to act beta and so further and so on. Nothing to see here…
Except for the fact that there was. Probably somewhat inspired by the comments to my reaction to that sorority mass murder attempt and because I read it at just the right time it clicked.
I had (maybe still have to some degree) the exact same script running that those Nice Guys have.
In case noone has read the book, he states that those guys have been abandoned by their fathers, or at least it feels that way, so they kind of enter into a covert contract with the universe to be extra nice to especially women (even more especially, their mother) so that they would not be abandoned again and that so they would fulfill their needs.
If these coverts and subconscious contracts are reinforced by the instinctive, atavistic fear of death total abandonment would mean for a child you have a very strongly shielded view of the world that becomes part of your core personality.
Now, obviously, when I tried this script on girls back then, insta friendzoning.
But then, I discovered Game! I think what I was trying to do was something like this: “Hey, I have a covert contract! Turns out, women have covert contracts too! Lets see whether I could get my contract signed by signing theirs!” Same script, different approach.
The problem is though that Glover writes that there is no such thing as a relationship where only one partner is damaged. Its always both and those disfunctions are not the same, they complement each other. So, emotional healthy women would leave quite soon, the rest was as damaged as I was.
Enter my nemesis, the emotional vampire. Me and the emotional vampire were the perfect fit, because were I would give to get, they would take, take, take, to fill the void in their soul where their heart should be. Also, if they not did give back I would try even harder ,which, in a weird way, trained them to give as little as possible.
When I tried my little experiment with writing her part of a book for a woman in exchange for sex, which really started out not as an attempt to have sexual access, but as a giant fuck you, I think I needed to see what happened. What I actually did was making my covert contract explicitly overt and on some level I must have expected her to break that contract and I think I wanted her to.
I must have known by then that it could not work, but I needed to see it.
This is also why the way this society operates made me so angry. Bitches are making my covert contract impossible! O_O !!! Not that I take anything back, I think my observations are spot on, but my emotional reaction to it was because of deep seated issues on my part.
I knew for a fact that my little script could neither work for me nor for any other man and I had nothing to replace it with.
Takeaway points:
-
I would take anything I have said about women with a grain of salt, because I myself, not neccesarily through my own fault, made sure I had the worst experiences possible with them.
-
On the other hand, when it comes to crazy bitches, especially emotional succubi, you name it, I have done it. So if I tell someone to run, hell, I would run. And, there are a lot of them…
-
Since there were women who rejected me because I was deeply, deeply flawed/misguided/ I dont know because they were far more mature and emotionally healthy than I was, I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
-
Even if the unthinkable happens, she will of course sign a prenup. Its not like I suddenly dropped half of my IQ points, people change.
-
To the women who were emotionally sound, I wish them all the best. Dropping me was the right thing to do.
-
To the women who were not, I wish them the best too and I think it is kind of sad that they live in a society where you do not have to face your demons if you are female and purdy. Youth and beauty always wanes and I take no pleasure in the knowledge that in a few short years they will be angry, bitter and alone or together with a man they can barely tolerate.
I thought that I was already at the acceptance stage, but I was still riding the anger, depression, bargaining rollercoaster.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
Feels that way.[/quote]
Whoa. Big stuff here. I’m pleased beyond belief for you.
Life starts now.
[quote]orion wrote:
I am feeling embarrased.
Deeply, deeply embarrased. Also, happy and free, but also embarrased, though not embarrassingly happy.
I think its time that we dissect this orion fellow, because not only does he deserve it, he should also being able to take it, considering what he dishes out, plus, it could be very instructive.
There is a book by Dr Robert Glover "No more Mr Nice Guy). I knew about it, but I never gave it much attention, because well, I was not a “Nice Guy” anyway, we all know not to act beta and so further and so on. Nothing to see here…
Except for the fact that there was. Probably somewhat inspired by the comments to my reaction to that sorority mass murder attempt and because I read it at just the right time it clicked.
I had (maybe still have to some degree) the exact same script running that those Nice Guys have.
In case noone has read the book, he states that those guys have been abandoned by their fathers, or at least it feels that way, so they kind of enter into a covert contract with the universe to be extra nice to especially women (even more especially, their mother) so that they would not be abandoned again and that so they would fulfill their needs.
If these coverts and subconscious contracts are reinforced by the instinctive, atavistic fear of death total abandonment would mean for a child you have a very strongly shielded view of the world that becomes part of your core personality.
Now, obviously, when I tried this script on girls back then, insta friendzoning.
But then, I discovered Game! I think what I was trying to do was something like this: “Hey, I have a covert contract! Turns out, women have covert contracts too! Lets see whether I could get my contract signed by signing theirs!” Same script, different approach.
The problem is though that Glover writes that there is no such thing as a relationship where only one partner is damaged. Its always both and those disfunctions are not the same, they complement each other. So, emotional healthy women would leave quite soon, the rest was as damaged as I was.
Enter my nemesis, the emotional vampire. Me and the emotional vampire were the perfect fit, because were I would give to get, they would take, take, take, to fill the void in their soul where their heart should be. Also, if they not did give back I would try even harder ,which, in a weird way, trained them to give as little as possible.
When I tried my little experiment with writing her part of a book for a woman in exchange for sex, which really started out not as an attempt to have sexual access, but as a giant fuck you, I think I needed to see what happened. What I actually did was making my covert contract explicitly overt and on some level I must have expected her to break that contract and I think I wanted her to.
I must have known by then that it could not work, but I needed to see it.
This is also why the way this society operates made me so angry. Bitches are making my covert contract impossible! O_O !!! Not that I take anything back, I think my observations are spot on, but my emotional reaction to it was because of deep seated issues on my part.
I knew for a fact that my little script could neither work for me nor for any other man and I had nothing to replace it with.
Takeaway points:
-
I would take anything I have said about women with a grain of salt, because I myself, not neccesarily through my own fault, made sure I had the worst experiences possible with them.
-
On the other hand, when it comes to crazy bitches, especially emotional succubi, you name it, I have done it. So if I tell someone to run, hell, I would run. And, there are a lot of them…
-
Since there were women who rejected me because I was deeply, deeply flawed/misguided/ I dont know because they were far more mature and emotionally healthy than I was, I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
-
Even if the unthinkable happens, she will of course sign a prenup. Its not like I suddenly dropped half of my IQ points, people change.
-
To the women who were emotionally sound, I wish them all the best. Dropping me was the right thing to do.
-
To the women who were not, I wish them the best too and I think it is kind of sad that they live in a society where you do not have to face your demons if you are female and purdy. Youth and beauty always wanes and I take no pleasure in the knowledge that in a few short years they will be angry, bitter and alone or together with a man they can barely tolerate.
I thought that I was already at the acceptance stage, but I was still riding the anger, depression, bargaining rollercoaster.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
Feels that way.[/quote]
Iron John. Read it. Then read it again. Time to start bucketing.
For the record I think you are spot on with much of your insights from a tactical level. But one can only run tactics for so long - one becomes like a dog chasing it’s tail. Going deeper and OWNING both your gold and your shadow and figuring out how to keep BOTH of them in front of you is a very worthy challenge as a man. Far more challenging than figuring out how to bang hot chicks - that’s easy, as I’m sure you know.
What’s cool is that once you have them (gold/shadow) in front of you, you can actually start to love yourself and forgive yourself and the quality of PEOPLE in your life improves exponentially - both men and women. Your connections are deeper and more fulfilling and have mature boundaries. And you have the grace to look past some of the flaws in people that you would have run from before and actually make decisions from an INTERNAL locus of control rather than being emotionally reactive and “script driven”.
When a woman does something that triggers a reaction in you, you can actually say to yourself, “this is not my mother”, and have enough altitude to understand the ORIGIN of the reaction and RESPOND from a place of peace, rather than insecurity after you have analyzed and processed the stimulus. In other words, YOU are in control.
It will take time. It’s taken me DECADES to process the shit in my life. And every time I get to the top of one “mountain”, I only see the base of another that needs climbing. Just keep moving in a positive direction. Enjoy the journey.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I will disagree slightly with my friend AC and suggest that you occasionally offer to do the “manly” things, but let it drop if he declines your offer. I see it as a way to acknowledge his contribution.
And don’t you worry; you’ll have plenty to "contribute"once you’re married and responsible for everything! <kidding, kidding> [/quote]
That is certainly one way to acknowledge his contribution and he very well may appreciate it. But if he is coming correct with the “manly” things, how about if you step up and come correct with some of the “womanly things”? Being appreciated and showing appreciation is important. But personally, if a woman wanted to show me appreciation, I wouldn’t want her to offer to drive, or to open a door, walk street-side or step into one of “MY” roles. I’d want her to blow me away with something exquisitely FEMININE… Something that I can’t (or won’t) do for myself. Something extra sweet (and not necessarily “monetarily equal”).
But that’s just me and my .02
[quote]orion wrote:
I am feeling embarrased.
Deeply, deeply embarrased. Also, happy and free, but also embarrased, though not embarrassingly happy.
I think its time that we dissect this orion fellow, because not only does he deserve it, he should also being able to take it, considering what he dishes out, plus, it could be very instructive.
There is a book by Dr Robert Glover "No more Mr Nice Guy). I knew about it, but I never gave it much attention, because well, I was not a “Nice Guy” anyway, we all know not to act beta and so further and so on. Nothing to see here…
Except for the fact that there was. Probably somewhat inspired by the comments to my reaction to that sorority mass murder attempt and because I read it at just the right time it clicked.
I had (maybe still have to some degree) the exact same script running that those Nice Guys have.
In case noone has read the book, he states that those guys have been abandoned by their fathers, or at least it feels that way, so they kind of enter into a covert contract with the universe to be extra nice to especially women (even more especially, their mother) so that they would not be abandoned again and that so they would fulfill their needs.
If these coverts and subconscious contracts are reinforced by the instinctive, atavistic fear of death total abandonment would mean for a child you have a very strongly shielded view of the world that becomes part of your core personality.
Now, obviously, when I tried this script on girls back then, insta friendzoning.
But then, I discovered Game! I think what I was trying to do was something like this: “Hey, I have a covert contract! Turns out, women have covert contracts too! Lets see whether I could get my contract signed by signing theirs!” Same script, different approach.
The problem is though that Glover writes that there is no such thing as a relationship where only one partner is damaged. Its always both and those disfunctions are not the same, they complement each other. So, emotional healthy women would leave quite soon, the rest was as damaged as I was.
Enter my nemesis, the emotional vampire. Me and the emotional vampire were the perfect fit, because were I would give to get, they would take, take, take, to fill the void in their soul where their heart should be. Also, if they not did give back I would try even harder ,which, in a weird way, trained them to give as little as possible.
When I tried my little experiment with writing her part of a book for a woman in exchange for sex, which really started out not as an attempt to have sexual access, but as a giant fuck you, I think I needed to see what happened. What I actually did was making my covert contract explicitly overt and on some level I must have expected her to break that contract and I think I wanted her to.
I must have known by then that it could not work, but I needed to see it.
This is also why the way this society operates made me so angry. Bitches are making my covert contract impossible! O_O !!! Not that I take anything back, I think my observations are spot on, but my emotional reaction to it was because of deep seated issues on my part.
I knew for a fact that my little script could neither work for me nor for any other man and I had nothing to replace it with.
Takeaway points:
-
I would take anything I have said about women with a grain of salt, because I myself, not neccesarily through my own fault, made sure I had the worst experiences possible with them.
-
On the other hand, when it comes to crazy bitches, especially emotional succubi, you name it, I have done it. So if I tell someone to run, hell, I would run. And, there are a lot of them…
-
Since there were women who rejected me because I was deeply, deeply flawed/misguided/ I dont know because they were far more mature and emotionally healthy than I was, I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
-
Even if the unthinkable happens, she will of course sign a prenup. Its not like I suddenly dropped half of my IQ points, people change.
-
To the women who were emotionally sound, I wish them all the best. Dropping me was the right thing to do.
-
To the women who were not, I wish them the best too and I think it is kind of sad that they live in a society where you do not have to face your demons if you are female and purdy. Youth and beauty always wanes and I take no pleasure in the knowledge that in a few short years they will be angry, bitter and alone or together with a man they can barely tolerate.
I thought that I was already at the acceptance stage, but I was still riding the anger, depression, bargaining rollercoaster.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
Feels that way.[/quote]
Oh nooooooo! You’re abandoning your dark ways? 
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
I am feeling embarrased.
Deeply, deeply embarrased. Also, happy and free, but also embarrased, though not embarrassingly happy.
I think its time that we dissect this orion fellow, because not only does he deserve it, he should also being able to take it, considering what he dishes out, plus, it could be very instructive.
There is a book by Dr Robert Glover "No more Mr Nice Guy). I knew about it, but I never gave it much attention, because well, I was not a “Nice Guy” anyway, we all know not to act beta and so further and so on. Nothing to see here…
Except for the fact that there was. Probably somewhat inspired by the comments to my reaction to that sorority mass murder attempt and because I read it at just the right time it clicked.
I had (maybe still have to some degree) the exact same script running that those Nice Guys have.
In case noone has read the book, he states that those guys have been abandoned by their fathers, or at least it feels that way, so they kind of enter into a covert contract with the universe to be extra nice to especially women (even more especially, their mother) so that they would not be abandoned again and that so they would fulfill their needs.
If these coverts and subconscious contracts are reinforced by the instinctive, atavistic fear of death total abandonment would mean for a child you have a very strongly shielded view of the world that becomes part of your core personality.
Now, obviously, when I tried this script on girls back then, insta friendzoning.
But then, I discovered Game! I think what I was trying to do was something like this: “Hey, I have a covert contract! Turns out, women have covert contracts too! Lets see whether I could get my contract signed by signing theirs!” Same script, different approach.
The problem is though that Glover writes that there is no such thing as a relationship where only one partner is damaged. Its always both and those disfunctions are not the same, they complement each other. So, emotional healthy women would leave quite soon, the rest was as damaged as I was.
Enter my nemesis, the emotional vampire. Me and the emotional vampire were the perfect fit, because were I would give to get, they would take, take, take, to fill the void in their soul where their heart should be. Also, if they not did give back I would try even harder ,which, in a weird way, trained them to give as little as possible.
When I tried my little experiment with writing her part of a book for a woman in exchange for sex, which really started out not as an attempt to have sexual access, but as a giant fuck you, I think I needed to see what happened. What I actually did was making my covert contract explicitly overt and on some level I must have expected her to break that contract and I think I wanted her to.
I must have known by then that it could not work, but I needed to see it.
This is also why the way this society operates made me so angry. Bitches are making my covert contract impossible! O_O !!! Not that I take anything back, I think my observations are spot on, but my emotional reaction to it was because of deep seated issues on my part.
I knew for a fact that my little script could neither work for me nor for any other man and I had nothing to replace it with.
Takeaway points:
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I would take anything I have said about women with a grain of salt, because I myself, not neccesarily through my own fault, made sure I had the worst experiences possible with them.
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On the other hand, when it comes to crazy bitches, especially emotional succubi, you name it, I have done it. So if I tell someone to run, hell, I would run. And, there are a lot of them…
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Since there were women who rejected me because I was deeply, deeply flawed/misguided/ I dont know because they were far more mature and emotionally healthy than I was, I know that there are some out there who have their shit together. I think I want to find one.
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Even if the unthinkable happens, she will of course sign a prenup. Its not like I suddenly dropped half of my IQ points, people change.
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To the women who were emotionally sound, I wish them all the best. Dropping me was the right thing to do.
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To the women who were not, I wish them the best too and I think it is kind of sad that they live in a society where you do not have to face your demons if you are female and purdy. Youth and beauty always wanes and I take no pleasure in the knowledge that in a few short years they will be angry, bitter and alone or together with a man they can barely tolerate.
I thought that I was already at the acceptance stage, but I was still riding the anger, depression, bargaining rollercoaster.
Maybe I am approaching acceptance now, because I understand my part of the story.
Feels that way.[/quote]
Iron John. Read it. Then read it again. Time to start bucketing.
For the record I think you are spot on with much of your insights from a tactical level. But one can only run tactics for so long - one becomes like a dog chasing it’s tail. Going deeper and OWNING both your gold and your shadow and figuring out how to keep BOTH of them in front of you is a very worthy challenge as a man. Far more challenging than figuring out how to bang hot chicks - that’s easy, as I’m sure you know.
What’s cool is that once you have them (gold/shadow) in front of you, you can actually start to love yourself and forgive yourself and the quality of PEOPLE in your life improves exponentially - both men and women. Your connections are deeper and more fulfilling and have mature boundaries. And you have the grace to look past some of the flaws in people that you would have run from before and actually make decisions from an INTERNAL locus of control rather than being emotionally reactive and “script driven”.
When a woman does something that triggers a reaction in you, you can actually say to yourself, “this is not my mother”, and have enough altitude to understand the ORIGIN of the reaction and RESPOND from a place of peace, rather than insecurity after you have analyzed and processed the stimulus. In other words, YOU are in control.
It will take time. It’s taken me DECADES to process the shit in my life. And every time I get to the top of one “mountain”, I only see the base of another that needs climbing. Just keep moving in a positive direction. Enjoy the journey.[/quote]
Where is that “gold /shadow” terminology from AC?
And nice post.
[/quote]
Carl Jung and various people who have interpreted his body of work. Robert Bly writes extensively about the shadow. Also, I spent some time working with the ManKind / New Warrior project and some of the terminology has bled into that work. It’s a pretty good way to describe some concepts that are very much in the “grey area” (or “Magician” archetype, if you will).
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I will disagree slightly with my friend AC and suggest that you occasionally offer to do the “manly” things, but let it drop if he declines your offer. I see it as a way to acknowledge his contribution.
And don’t you worry; you’ll have plenty to "contribute"once you’re married and responsible for everything! <kidding, kidding> [/quote]
That is certainly one way to acknowledge his contribution and he very well may appreciate it. But if he is coming correct with the “manly” things, how about if you step up and come correct with some of the “womanly things”? Being appreciated and showing appreciation is important. But personally, if a woman wanted to show me appreciation, I wouldn’t want her to offer to drive, or to open a door, walk street-side or step into one of “MY” roles. I’d want her to blow me away with something exquisitely FEMININE… Something that I can’t (or won’t) do for myself. Something extra sweet (and not necessarily “monetarily equal”).
But that’s just me and my .02[/quote]
I think I do come correct with my womanly things, lol. I hope so, anyway. I’m pretty feminine, though I like getting sweaty and dirty. I used to think that I had some less-feminine qualities (straightforward, like physical challenge, don’t like shopping as an entertainment) but at this point I see myself as highly feminine without being shallow or vapid. But maybe I’m deluded.
Everything about Hockey is masculine, without him being pugnacious or arrogant. I adore it, and there’s no question who is who in the relationship.
Which is why I worry about becoming dependent. He feels so safe and good.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Oh nooooooo! You’re abandoning your dark ways? :([/quote]
No!
We live in a highly dysfunctional society with lots of dysfunctional people, my dark ways are a necessity.
But maybe I will use them differently.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Oh nooooooo! You’re abandoning your dark ways? :([/quote]
No!
We live in a highly dysfunctional society with lots of dysfunctional people, my dark ways are a necessity.
But maybe I will use them differently.[/quote]
Very astute on the dysfunction thing. My sponsor gave me some advice on character defects- They aren’t necessarily defects, and in fact, they can become assets when used properly. Some things legitimately should be discarded, but most people have a lot of assets that they have simply been misusing.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Which is why I worry about becoming dependent. He feels so safe and good.
[/quote]
Why does it worry you? Why do you see it as a bad thing?