Let's Process Our Feelings II

Off Topic
661

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Are women stigmatized for having been raped? I’ve heard of horror stories about cruel cops, and nurses, and doctors, and DA’s but I don’t know. It wouldn’t dawn on me to stigmatize a rape victim.
[/quote]

Are they not? I think from women’s perspective there is an assumption that men (romantic partners and prospective partners) find it somewhat repugnant. Like an unclean thing.

Is this just the women’s own feeling projected?

AC, is it JUST about the emotional piece?[/quote]
No it’s not just a projection. There is that “unclean” stigma that still hangs in the back of some people’s minds.

For most guys though, yes it is JUST about the emotional baggage. It’s a shame too, because everywhere you look people are reinforcing the idea that rape is something a woman will be permanently psychologically damaged from and that you can’t really ever get over something like that, and in my opinion that doesn’t help at all. It just creates this self fulfilling prophecy where we tell rape victims that they’ll never feel normal again.

662

[quote]GeneticSynergy9 wrote:
Emily, I wish you were my therapist[/quote]

Thank you! I have fun with it, and hopefully so do my clients.

I had one guy tell me about an argument he had and then ask “Are you gonna crawl up my ass now, too?”

Why yes. Yes, I am.

663

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

On another note, I think rape is EXTREMELY interesting from an anthropological perspective. Why are women stigmatized for this by men when having had a consensual partner does not? Once upon a time it would have been because women were expected to be virgins. Not so today.

Yet the stigma and fear persists.[/quote]

Are women stigmatized for having been raped? I’ve heard of horror stories about cruel cops, and nurses, and doctors, and DA’s but I don’t know. It wouldn’t dawn on me to stigmatize a rape victim.
[/quote]

Are they not? I think from women’s perspective there is an assumption that men (romantic partners and prospective partners) find it somewhat repugnant. Like an unclean thing.

Is this just the women’s own feeling projected?

AC, is it JUST about the emotional piece?[/quote]

I don’t find it “repugnant”. I mean the act, of course, but not the victim. Now I think that rape can be a slippery slope and not a black and white issue and there are various level of trauma involved. I mean two people getting drunk at a party and fucking can be considered rape (and men have been convicted of just that). Just as a predatory attack can - but those are FAR different scenarios. But the same word is used to describe it…

I also think that sometimes women put themselves in situations that are fucking STUPID. Like they think the world is a safe and pretty place filled with rainbows and butterflies. Then they get raped and fall into the victim mentality. Well, PERHAPS if she didn’t cut through that ally alone, wearing that short skirt, drunk from the club, etc… and made a more responsible decision, it wouldn’t have happened. Not in any way saying a rape victim isn’t a “victim” of a crime, but let’s face it, people make stupid decisions and then bitch about the results.

I know some guys who have an opinion that they are “damaged goods” after that, but these are the same guys (often with religious convictions) who put women up on a pedestal and want to marry a virgin.

An Iraq veteran friend of mine told me how when Sadaam Husein was in power, he (or someone in his gov’t) would often arrest the wife of a political enemy and force the man to watch as his wife was raped by a guy with a horse cock. Then the guy would often kill THE WIFE! Or divorce her at least. So some people have some very fucked up insecurities or convictions about it.

As for your question, FOR ME, it’s just the emotional piece. I don’t view her as any more damaged as someone who got into a car accident. It sucks, but sometimes bad things happen to good people. And sometimes good people make bad decisions that cause a negative cascade of events.

I may seem like I’m coming off a little harsh about a rape victim’s decisions being a factor, but that’s how I feel. I did 4 years in prison. As a young white guy (who is good looking), I was often the target of rape, either by innuendo, threat, or an actual attack. However, my ass is still exit only. Why? Because I didn’t put myself in a position of vulnerability. I knew my environment was unsafe and I made adjustments. I didn’t take the sanctity of my asshole for granted. And I never got raped. I had to stab a few guys who tried. But for the most part I was able to AVOID the scenario that would make me vulnerable. Many women don’t do that. They think they are “entitled” to a safe walk through a dark ally alone late at night or with a skinny guy wearing tight pants. And then they wonder, “why me?”.

Not saying the trauma is any less, but the lack of responsible decision making is a contributing factor. I also recognize that there are plenty of attacks that occur in what “should” be a safe environment and that a woman is a true victim of a predator. But that’s not always the case, yet the same word is used. I don’t like that.

664

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

On another note, I think rape is EXTREMELY interesting from an anthropological perspective. Why are women stigmatized for this by men when having had a consensual partner does not? Once upon a time it would have been because women were expected to be virgins. Not so today.

Yet the stigma and fear persists.[/quote]

Are women stigmatized for having been raped? I’ve heard of horror stories about cruel cops, and nurses, and doctors, and DA’s but I don’t know. It wouldn’t dawn on me to stigmatize a rape victim.
[/quote]

Are they not? I think from women’s perspective there is an assumption that men (romantic partners and prospective partners) find it somewhat repugnant. Like an unclean thing.

Is this just the women’s own feeling projected?

AC, is it JUST about the emotional piece?[/quote]

I don’t find it “repugnant”. I mean the act, of course, but not the victim. Now I think that rape can be a slippery slope and not a black and white issue and there are various level of trauma involved. I mean two people getting drunk at a party and fucking can be considered rape (and men have been convicted of just that). Just as a predatory attack can - but those are FAR different scenarios. But the same word is used to describe it…

I also think that sometimes women put themselves in situations that are fucking STUPID. Like they think the world is a safe and pretty place filled with rainbows and butterflies. Then they get raped and fall into the victim mentality. Well, PERHAPS if she didn’t cut through that ally alone, wearing that short skirt, drunk from the club, etc… and made a more responsible decision, it wouldn’t have happened. Not in any way saying a rape victim isn’t a “victim” of a crime, but let’s face it, people make stupid decisions and then bitch about the results.

I know some guys who have an opinion that they are “damaged goods” after that, but these are the same guys (often with religious convictions) who put women up on a pedestal and want to marry a virgin.

An Iraq veteran friend of mine told me how when Sadaam Husein was in power, he (or someone in his gov’t) would often arrest the wife of a political enemy and force the man to watch as his wife was raped by a guy with a horse cock. Then the guy would often kill THE WIFE! Or divorce her at least. So some people have some very fucked up insecurities or convictions about it.

As for your question, FOR ME, it’s just the emotional piece. I don’t view her as any more damaged as someone who got into a car accident. It sucks, but sometimes bad things happen to good people. And sometimes good people make bad decisions that cause a negative cascade of events.

I may seem like I’m coming off a little harsh about a rape victim’s decisions being a factor, but that’s how I feel. I did 4 years in prison. As a young white guy (who is good looking), I was often the target of rape, either by innuendo, threat, or an actual attack. However, my ass is still exit only. Why? Because I didn’t put myself in a position of vulnerability. I knew my environment was unsafe and I made adjustments. I didn’t take the sanctity of my asshole for granted. And I never got raped. I had to stab a few guys who tried. But for the most part I was able to AVOID the scenario that would make me vulnerable. Many women don’t do that. They think they are “entitled” to a safe walk through a dark ally alone late at night or with a skinny guy wearing tight pants. And then they wonder, “why me?”.

Not saying the trauma is any less, but the lack of responsible decision making is a contributing factor. I also recognize that there are plenty of attacks that occur in what “should” be a safe environment and that a woman is a true victim of a predator. But that’s not always the case, yet the same word is used. I don’t like that.
[/quote]

I worked in an inner city high school in Texas and we had an anti-violence student group. It was supposed to be an awareness-building group, but most of the kids in it had trauma backgrounds, so there was a lot of processing and group therapy. Anyway, it was all do-gooder girls until a boy joined because, I believed, he wanted to meet the girls. The kid eventually became a core member of the group and someone I saw individually for counseling. LOVED that kid, though he was a complete nightmare.

Anyway, one day in group the girls were trying get across to him how much it sucks to be a female and vulnerable to attack and one said dramatically “I don’t have a choice about walking through Zilker Park alone after dark.” And the kid goes “You think I walk through Zilker Park alone at night?” And then laughed his ass off.

I agree with you. Women and girls don’t deserve to be raped any more than that kid would deserve to get jumped, but they should still be mindful of safety regardless of blamelessness.

I also agree that there is a difference between types of “rape” and there should be different terminology for some of the date/hookup situations - though some date rape is rape in its purest sense.

Thank you for clarifying your views on the “unclean” piece.

666

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Since we’re talking about penises- I was surprised by how many of my wifes friends wanted to see my sons when we brought him home- Like all of them! When it was time to change his diaper they all went running to see it. They all checked it out and were especially happy when the little bugger got wood.

I would have never guessed that was such a big thing. Once they got past the “oh, he’s so cute!” it went right to “Lets see how he’s hung!”. Based on their response, he shouldn’t have anything to worry about.

[/quote]

Another humble brag.
[/quote]

Hehehe… maybe a little. :}

My wife maybe? It was a couple of groups of women shortly after bringing him home.

My guess is that it’s a curiosity/general health thing, nothing insidious.

668

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Since we’re talking about penises- I was surprised by how many of my wifes friends wanted to see my sons when we brought him home- Like all of them! When it was time to change his diaper they all went running to see it. They all checked it out and were especially happy when the little bugger got wood.

I would have never guessed that was such a big thing. Once they got past the “oh, he’s so cute!” it went right to “Lets see how he’s hung!”. Based on their response, he shouldn’t have anything to worry about.

[/quote]

Another humble brag.
[/quote]

Hehehe… maybe a little. :}

My wife maybe? It was a couple of groups of women shortly after bringing him home.

My guess is that it’s a curiosity/general health thing, nothing insidious.
[/quote]

Are you sure? Are any of them from McKees Rocks?

;-)[/quote]

No way! Women from McKees Rocks can only come in unless they bring pierogies. Even then they better be careful.

669

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

On another note, I think rape is EXTREMELY interesting from an anthropological perspective. Why are women stigmatized for this by men when having had a consensual partner does not? Once upon a time it would have been because women were expected to be virgins. Not so today.

Yet the stigma and fear persists.[/quote]

Are women stigmatized for having been raped? I’ve heard of horror stories about cruel cops, and nurses, and doctors, and DA’s but I don’t know. It wouldn’t dawn on me to stigmatize a rape victim.
[/quote]

Are they not? I think from women’s perspective there is an assumption that men (romantic partners and prospective partners) find it somewhat repugnant. Like an unclean thing.

Is this just the women’s own feeling projected?

AC, is it JUST about the emotional piece?[/quote]

I think it’s complicated. It has to do with a lot of things, the woman who was raped may have a reputation. The man who raped her may be of status. There are also examples of false accusations that follow men around.

Think Kobe Bryant, Ben Roethlesburger, Mike Tyson. All high profile cases. But do we really remember the ones that were false accusations?

A pretty serious issue I still have stems from being accused of sleeping with someone I didn’t sleep with, and it stuck and it ended up coming to blows and wasn’t until YEARS later that she finally admitted the truth.

What was messed up about this situation was that it was her malice towards me for trying to get her boyfriend to break up with her. I did so because the guy was my best friend, and they would both scratch and bruise one another. He’d be walking around with scraches on his neck, and she’d be walking around with bruises on her arms and legs, and she was cheating on him I found out many years later as well…

I think things are the way they are Emily because sometimes women who feel powerless will use sex and lies to get their way, or to make sure somebody else doesn’t get their way… Not so many men have this kind of power that mortal women have. So when a woman of poor reputation and low status accuses a man of high reputation and high status, sometimes people aren’t so quick to believe because of past experiences.

I dont mean to make a big generalization about women, I grew up in an all woman household lol… But it seems like women are more likely to manipulate with sex and lies than men are? I’m not sure it’s true or not, just a hunch that seems to have been right for a long time. It seems to stem naturally from the idea that women can control situations with sex, where not too many men can.

Angry Chicken is right on about the damaged goods aspect. I think it also stems from men wanting to have this sort of control over womens sexuality as well as their own various insecurities. What would be the point of having a horsecock dude rape your wife rather than a regular dude? It seems to be an important facet of the whole horror of it that is tied into insecurities.

670

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Stinkfist wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Stinkfist wrote:
Vagina’s don’t get “stretched out” from dicks, no matter how many she’s had and no matter how big they were. LOL! [/quote]

Actually it does happen from, “dicks.” It can happen during rape/gang rape when a woman isn’t ready for penetration, a lot of permanent physical damage can take place. When young girls are molested permanent damage occurs as well.

Also, it’s not too common but there are women who do things like shows with farm animals and the odd woman who enjoys huge toys.

But, anyhow. Cheers. :)[/quote]

Actually, NO, it does not happen. This is a fact.

The only thing that “can” cause the vagina to change size permanently, is having children. And, that still doesn’t always apply to all women.

Your bro-science sex ed teacher has failed you miserably, bud.

Emily and AC are obviously spot on with their posts.[/quote]

Actually damage does occur from rape and child molestation to varying degrees. It’s common for the labia and fourchette to be torn, most tears happen from stretching, tears lead to scars, and scars are permanent for the most part. When it comes to small children it’s far worse and can be more mutilating. I get that we are going to most likely be entrenched in our opinions, I for one don’t believe that the only thing that can change a vag is child birth. But I guess we will all have opinions vs. knowledge. [/quote]

Severiano, when are you going to refill your Ritalin prescription? YES, damage occurs from rape. But rape does not cause stretching. YES, scar tissue can arise from tears. But tears do not cause stretching. YES, mutilations are mutilated and women who’ve been mutilated feel mutilated and may be self-conscious about their mutilation.

What has ANY of this to do with your position that men avoid promiscuous women because they are afraid their penises won’t be up to the task of managing the stretched vagina that results from promiscuity?

You’re all over the page, to a degree that doesn’t even make sense. WHAT is your position? Do you even know?

You’re giving me PMS and my boyfriend isn’t going to appreciate it.

[/quote]

At the risk of him (again) crying that I’m singling him out and picking on him, I really think he just likes to hear himself talk.[/quote]

Sorry fake samurai guy. I don’t need to lip words when I read or type like you do.

672

Severiano, you seem rather preoccupied with partner selection/retention and penis size. Does this hit close to home for you? Maybe we should discuss tongue length in regard to cunnilinglus. That keeps me up at night. What if the girl I’m bedding has had a longer one?

674


Oh, the stories she could tell…

675

[quote]Severiano wrote:

What would be the point of having a horsecock dude rape your wife rather than a regular dude? It seems to be an important facet of the whole horror of it that is tied into insecurities. [/quote]

I don’t even know what to say about this. lol

676

Hockey and I had a talk about the money thing last weekend. We mock-argue over checks about half the time, which takes various forms and is mostly fun and contest-oriented (e.g. “the chopstick mini corn toss”). I would say where it stands now is that I pay about 25% of the total money spent on food, both cooked at home and eaten out, mostly by getting occasional breakfasts, lunches, and inexpensive dinners.

So we were debating over breakfast Sunday and I must have said an “it’s not fair” because he’d paid for an expensive dinner the night before. He hit me with “Okay, so if we’re going to be completely fair, does that mean that you’re going to open my door half the time and do half the driving?” I of course offered to open his car door half the time (“I’ll take summers, you take winter!”). The driving, not so much. Partly because he feels that I don’t pay adequate attention and am slip-shoddy in my driving habits (I’m an excellent driver and have not been in an accident, however I am distractible and will occasionally forget where I’m going) (plus I think it’s a control thing with him). Partly because I’m lazy and am more likely to be impaired by a couple of glasses of wine.

ANYWAY, so we let it drop and went hiking and I was thinking about it. It’s all very confusing, no? I’ve read so much “women will fuck you over” stuff on here and elsewhere, along with a general sense that we’re expensive lode stones, and I don’t want to be that. But to hear him indicate that I’m being inconsistent in my feminism/femininity. . . urgh.

So when we stopped I brought it back up and explained that I don’t want to pay because I want equality - I don’t care about that in this context - but because I don’t want to take advantage of him or be a burden. He said he wouldn’t do it if he didn’t want to.

And now I still don’t know where we are.

677

The thing about women being lodestones… Guys let this happen to themselves.

There are very materialistic women out there as well who go for guys purely based on what they have, most of these guys know what they are getting into when they get involved with these women. But, as sure as they get used they complain after its all over. In reality they know exactly what they are doing/ both parties. It’s just usually the guy that’s delusional about this sort of situation.

Guys are hardwired to be providers. It’s more a modern convention that bills are split, and since Hockey is trying to pay all the dinner bills it’s probably because you’re the one who he wants to show he’s providing for. Hopefully that puts things into perspective with where you are… I don’t think he wants to pay for things to hold it over your head so you owe him, it’s that he want’s to take on that roll of provider and protector that all guys want to have when it comes to women they are serious about.

In a way you are asking him to not be so serious in a sense by asking to split the dinner date bills. I think that’s where you are, you are trying to cut through his evolved way of providing. I wouldn’t say he finds it emasculating, but it may be a thing you keep playing with and competing for. It seems like a good way to have fun.

678

[quote]Bismark wrote:
Severiano, you seem rather preoccupied with partner selection/retention and penis size. Does this hit close to home for you? Maybe we should discuss tongue length in regard to cunnilinglus. That keeps me up at night. What if the girl I’m bedding has had a longer one? [/quote]

Actually it does hit close to home. I was made fun of for being uncut in the shower room by other kids when I was in 6th grade or so? I was very self conscious and insecure about it for a long time. Got a girlfriend, girls talk, and then one day when I was stretching for baseball practice guys I got playfully teased about being flexible and being hung, and how if they were like me they wouldn’t leave the house. So, for me it was more a triumph, because among men we are all competitors whether we are aware of it or not. For me it went from being humiliated in a public way to being made fun of in a weird way that acknowledged me simply for being well hung.

There’s a level of confidence that comes with knowing where you stand amongst men which is a big confidence booster considering it was something I was very insecure about as a younger kid. It’s not something we can be essentialized over either, like a huge rack, or perfect ass, or beautiful face as women are usually essentialized physically and often play a part in it themselves.

With having a big dick and having confidence in your ability to please a woman brings a truckload of confidence and security that not a lot of guys have. We can still be essentialized though, in that women do talk and you will get a little bit of a reputation for being big which can be used against you sometimes. Sometimes women will seek you out to cheat because you are perfect for revenge sex. Other times they will lie about you having slept with them to make a boyfriend jealous.

It’s more damaging for a guy to know his gf cheated with a horse cocked guy and she loved it. The only thing worse would be if that horse cocked guy was a friend/ someone you had confidence in.

So yeah, it does hit close to home.

679

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

What would be the point of having a horsecock dude rape your wife rather than a regular dude? It seems to be an important facet of the whole horror of it that is tied into insecurities. [/quote]

I don’t even know what to say about this. lol[/quote]

I actually used to think about this some. During a certain military school I found out the extents of torture. The reality is that guys are raped as a part of torture in certain countries. It’s more horrifying to be raped by a horse cocked guy than it would be a normal sized guy for a man. Both are horrible but one is definitely worse.

There are other things that factor in like race. So the stereotype is that black men are very well hung, and for a lot of men one of the most scary sticks in our justice system is prison, and the idea of getting raped by a big black man. That’s just a reality and stereotype of our society and justice system. I think it’s a reason some people are insecure about black men. I recently heard this, “Once you go black, we won’t take you back.” Said about white women who date black men by a white guy, and obvious pun on, “Once you go black you never go back.” A more recent one I’ve heard is just women who are more sexually liberated, “She’s been run through by all kinds of fools.”

You want to know what I used to believe would be a great way of getting Islamic terrorists to spill the beans? A big masculine black guy with a huge black erection and the threat of rape, along with some pork grease. The reason is because it’s the most horrifying and most threatening thing I could imagine in that it threatens control, manhood, and faith in that persons psychology. It’s a sort of violation of manhood, because like it or not on some levels life is a dick measuring contest. Not a lot of guys are comfortable whipping it out to get measured though…

You see, it’s one of the biggest insecurities men have because of the way it’s literally, figuratively and evolutionarily tied to manhood.

680

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Hockey and I had a talk about the money thing last weekend. We mock-argue over checks about half the time, which takes various forms and is mostly fun and contest-oriented (e.g. “the chopstick mini corn toss”). I would say where it stands now is that I pay about 25% of the total money spent on food, both cooked at home and eaten out, mostly by getting occasional breakfasts, lunches, and inexpensive dinners.

So we were debating over breakfast Sunday and I must have said an “it’s not fair” because he’d paid for an expensive dinner the night before. He hit me with “Okay, so if we’re going to be completely fair, does that mean that you’re going to open my door half the time and do half the driving?” I of course offered to open his car door half the time (“I’ll take summers, you take winter!”). The driving, not so much. Partly because he feels that I don’t pay adequate attention and am slip-shoddy in my driving habits (I’m an excellent driver and have not been in an accident, however I am distractible and will occasionally forget where I’m going) (plus I think it’s a control thing with him). Partly because I’m lazy and am more likely to be impaired by a couple of glasses of wine.

ANYWAY, so we let it drop and went hiking and I was thinking about it. It’s all very confusing, no? I’ve read so much “women will fuck you over” stuff on here and elsewhere, along with a general sense that we’re expensive lode stones, and I don’t want to be that. But to hear him indicate that I’m being inconsistent in my feminism/femininity. . . urgh.

So when we stopped I brought it back up and explained that I don’t want to pay because I want equality - I don’t care about that in this context - but because I don’t want to take advantage of him or be a burden. He said he wouldn’t do it if he didn’t want to.

And now I still don’t know where we are.
[/quote]
I think Hockey would be happiest if you would just stop worrying about it and let the chips fall where they may.