This thread is so helpful, thanks for all the advivce mah people.
MONSTER MINI’S are these just sold through EFS? I wish Canada had a cool version of EFS…
Spock they are sold through EFS.
Thanks LM!
P.S. Update your log 
What assistance work/special exercises have you guys found to really help with raw bench?
A real weakness of mine is shoulder strength. My bench is about 110-115kg but my OHP is only about 60-65kg. You don’t see much talked about pressing anymore because of equipped lifting but looking at the “old” days everyone seemed to have insane OHP strength - Coan, Arcidi and many others.
What do you guys think? Exams now mean I’m not really lifting much at all but after that I’m gonna be trying to really hammer my OHP and see how it goes.
Some people get carryover from improving their overhead, some people don’t. I never have really.
[quote]mlekava000 wrote:
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
What grip do you guys use on the BP? I read Kroc’s article the other day and came across this
"Changing the position of the thumb affects elbow position. The full grip rotates the hand outward to a greater degree, thereby rotating the elbows out and emphasizing the chest.
With the thumb-less grip the hands are turned in more towards the body, making it easier to tuck the elbows on the descent and recruit the triceps.
Gripping the bar with the thumb along the bar is a compromise of the two. So a lifter with a comparatively stronger chest (or one looking to work the chest to the highest degree) would benefit from a wide, full grip, whereas a lifter with extremely strong triceps would get the most out of a relatively narrow thumb-less grip."
What do you guys use?
I am moving more and more narrow (pinkies an inch inside the rings vs index on the ring at the beginning of the year) as a way to preemptively avoid shoulder issues. I also use the full grip (thumb wrapped around bar). Does anyone use the thumb-less grip? I have never really tried it, it seems uncomfortable, and I bench alone a lot and have heard the horror stories of people losing bars with this grip so I am thinking maybe not. Any advice?
Article if you want: Big Bench Program for Strength and Size [/quote]
I went thumb-less well over a year ago (watching meat’s videos and discussing the grip with him) and will NEVER, ever go back. I feel I have better control of the bar, my wrists align better I have 0 shoulder pain and can feel my lats and triceps working more effectively. Shit, I even do most of my pulling (outside of deadlifts) thumbless now too.
As far as width - I used to be pointer on rings but was losing power at the bottom. For the past year or so have been just in middle on rings and feel much better. I’ve been working on my triceps more and more to bring them up cause I feel that’s what’s holding me back, but the way I see it:
- Wider grip less power out of the bottom but less total distance and less work for triceps
- closer grip - more pop off the bottom but longer total distance and more work for the triceps.
Since my tri-s as I said, are my limiting factor, my comp grip is relatively wide (middle on rings) but I am doing tons of accessories for tri-s to make that up. Also, I feel the wider you go the more back and lat work you need cause you will need their help to get that pop off the bottom (as well as good leg drive, of course)[/quote]
I’ve always preferred a wider grip. I bench with an arch, and my shoulders are retracted. If I bring my grip, I lose tightness in my upperback. This is fine for touch and go BP, but if I have to pause the bar, I need the extra tightness, and that’s where Index on the rings wins. I’ve never had much for shoulder issues. I always squat with a closer grip (pinky on rings) which helps shoulder mobility and I feel more stable on squat. I also do facepulls every time I bench.
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
Thanks LM!
P.S. Update your log [/quote]
Yah yah yah. I bought Diablo3 so my internets outside of work are dominated by that.
I ORDERED D3 the other day as well! Ha!
If OP is still watching this thread, I’m doing you a HUGE FAVOR right now:
then watch parts 2, 3, and 4.
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
This thread is so helpful, thanks for all the advivce mah people.
MONSTER MINI’S are these just sold through EFS? I wish Canada had a cool version of EFS…[/quote]
Check out bells of steel in calgary www.bellsofsteel.com it’s definately not EFS but they do sell bands, prowlers some specialty bars and other assorted strength training equip. Some stuff is a little cheaper and you wont get raped by the cross border customs fees.
[quote]Kevin5255 wrote:
If OP is still watching this thread, I’m doing you a HUGE FAVOR right now:
then watch parts 2, 3, and 4. [/quote]
Eh, personally I can’t squat like that. I found that that wide of a stance simply beat my hips up and generated less force. There are definitely good things to take away from the series for sure but I don’t believe the OP is asking how to squat (and pretty sure he’s seen the series as most here have), we’re simply discussing raw training and the things that affect it more so than others.
What exactly did you do with your squat LM? I know you’ve laid out bits and pieces of it around this forum but if it’s not too much trouble, it would be nice to see it in one spot.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
[quote]arramzy wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Also a good point.
I’ve brought my grip width in a bit recently though. It has meant I lift a bit less but I am hoping that in the long-run my shoulders will thank me for it. I want to be in it for the long haul and my shoulders always had some nagging problems.
Also, personally, slightly narrower grip feels more “right”.[/quote]
In my opinion, wider grip = shoulder pain is a bit of a myth. If you bench with really good tight form, a good arch, a reasonable elbow tuck, and really good shoulder blade retraction, when the grip is wide, the shoulder rotation is almost negligible. I think the cause of shoulder problems is from people who have a imbalanced rotator cuff. Often people will do their upper back or whatever, but they will often to exercises that neglect the small muscles of the anterior rotator cuff. This will cause the neanderthal look and contribute to the shoulder pain. The other thing, is tightness! Stretching the chest, anterior delt, and anything else that is tight, will help a lot of people.
EDIT: I bench with maximum grip width and bench a lot (like 5 times a week) and never have shoulder pain. I think rear delt flyes with light dumbells everyday is the secret.[/quote]
Since a lot of guys are loving to disagree with you, I will give you a little love here. First of all, its clear that the majority of the stronger benchers use a pretty wide grip. Not all, I know (KK and Hoornstra), but the strong majority. I used to bench narrow and was stronger narrow. Wide grips hurt my shoulders and all the jazz. But from what I have seen and experienced, once you start to use perfect technique (naysayers should watch Det Azathoth bench) and correct some muscle imbalances (I would say rotator cuff stabilization is part of it but scapular stabilization is even more important) a wider grip is just more efficient. Once you figure out how to let your triceps and lats dominate your bench its just better in my opinion. However, once you lose that upper back tightness and lat push you are screwed with a wide grip and will frequent tweak your shoulders and biceps tendons.
[/quote]
Aw, I <3 you right now
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Question;
How much of you guys’ work is heavy?
I recently switched to a conjugated style of training… half of the days are max effort method, the other half is repitition method
I’m always looking foward the heavy days, it’s agonizing… I HATE the feeling of going light.
Not even sure if the Repetition effort is doing me any good, I actually feel smaller. Though it might just be in my head, trying to find excuses to go heavy all the time again.[/quote]
Most of my training is relatively “light”
It’s a matter of building strength vs. showcasing strength. There is a difference when going heavy.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]Kevin5255 wrote:
If OP is still watching this thread, I’m doing you a HUGE FAVOR right now:
then watch parts 2, 3, and 4. [/quote]
Eh, personally I can’t squat like that. I found that that wide of a stance simply beat my hips up and generated less force. There are definitely good things to take away from the series for sure but I don’t believe the OP is asking how to squat (and pretty sure he’s seen the series as most here have), we’re simply discussing raw training and the things that affect it more so than others.[/quote]
I’m similar.
I think when it comes to raw squatting, perfecting the rebound style of squatting, and generating force that way is the key to hitting bigger Squat numbers. Shortening ROM is only a part of the puzzle of maximizing leverage, but I think force production via rebound squatting has more pro’s than con’s.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]Kevin5255 wrote:
If OP is still watching this thread, I’m doing you a HUGE FAVOR right now:
then watch parts 2, 3, and 4. [/quote]
Eh, personally I can’t squat like that. I found that that wide of a stance simply beat my hips up and generated less force. There are definitely good things to take away from the series for sure but I don’t believe the OP is asking how to squat (and pretty sure he’s seen the series as most here have), we’re simply discussing raw training and the things that affect it more so than others.[/quote]
I’m similar.
I think when it comes to raw squatting, perfecting the rebound style of squatting, and generating force that way is the key to hitting bigger Squat numbers. Shortening ROM is only a part of the puzzle of maximizing leverage, but I think force production via rebound squatting has more pro’s than con’s.
[/quote]
I’ll chime in and agree with this as well. I switched to raw lifting from equipped about 2-3 years ago. Initially I tried the slow descent, wide stance squats raw. Didn’t work very well and it killed my groin. Since switching to a narrow stance with more speed into the hole (rebound) my squat is up and my groin rarely hurts any longer.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Question;
How much of you guys’ work is heavy?
I recently switched to a conjugated style of training… half of the days are max effort method, the other half is repitition method
I’m always looking foward the heavy days, it’s agonizing… I HATE the feeling of going light.
Not even sure if the Repetition effort is doing me any good, I actually feel smaller. Though it might just be in my head, trying to find excuses to go heavy all the time again.[/quote]
Most of my training is relatively “light”
It’s a matter of building strength vs. showcasing strength. There is a difference when going heavy. [/quote]
What does relatively light mean as it relates to 1RM max?
[quote]burt128 wrote:
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Question;
How much of you guys’ work is heavy?
I recently switched to a conjugated style of training… half of the days are max effort method, the other half is repitition method
I’m always looking foward the heavy days, it’s agonizing… I HATE the feeling of going light.
Not even sure if the Repetition effort is doing me any good, I actually feel smaller. Though it might just be in my head, trying to find excuses to go heavy all the time again.[/quote]
Most of my training is relatively “light”
It’s a matter of building strength vs. showcasing strength. There is a difference when going heavy. [/quote]
What does relatively light mean as it relates to 1RM max?[/quote]
For me, 70%-85% range. I don’t normally trend into the 90%+ range until 4 weeks out from a meet.
I just recently started doing concentric good mornings in hopes of helping my DL off the floor. Never been a big fan of GMs in general, but figure I’d try them out.
I will say deficit deads(snatch grip deadlifts with 35lb plates for me) have seemed to help quite a bit along with speed pulls from a smaller deficit. I also do front squats.
For squats…simply squatting is all I’ve really needed.
And for bench I think my OHP has carried very well over. I’ve also been doing more rows, facepulls, and scapular/rotator cuff work.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What exactly did you do with your squat LM? I know you’ve laid out bits and pieces of it around this forum but if it’s not too much trouble, it would be nice to see it in one spot.[/quote]
I fixed my setup for one. I made sure it was the same every time I squatted (I use a mono) and that in turn has significantly improved my consistency which has resulted in less misses. Most of my issues aren’t strength related simply technical in nature, I was missing 50% of the time on my heaviest sets because of technical errors, in particular in my setup so I’ve fixed that and now it’s rare I miss which has had huge carryover.
Other than that I’ve really increased my core work, in particular my loaded carries which has helped me be more stable throughout the lift.
Those have been the biggest changes in training for me over the last few months. I’ve started leg pressing after squatting with my squat stance which sucks considering I can do way more weight if I stick with my DL stance on leg press which leads me to believe that maybe my hips are a weakness. I’m going to keep with this and see how it goes.