[quote]niksamaras wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I saw two homeless men having sex in the dugout of a softball field this morning. I feel like that helped my own training and knowledge base more than the majority of information this thread.[/quote]
So, how many grams of test does it take to get to the platform with an 800+ pound deadlift?[/quote]
Not cool man. Dick move.[/quote]
tongue in cheek.
People talk a lot about genetics and roids, but not a lot about food & juice.
I’d say almost everyone here would have a more impressive physique if they did nothing different… just add one bunch of leafy green vegetables per day.
For example, Raw juice with cruciferous vegetables optimizes hormones.
The guys with “bad genetics” are acting like they can’t do a dam thing about it. Get wise fools.
[quote]Myosin wrote:
[quote]Elegua360 wrote:
I’m thinking about the original post, the thing that started all of this.
I have to ask, what’s with you guys over-thinking other guy’s physiques? If you aren’t a male model, BB competitor, or screen actor, then why would you waste one moment of your life looking at another man’s body and wondering if you’re superior or inferior to that person because of one aspect of their physical symmetry?
For that matter, how pathetic is it to further quantify your own self-worth by wondering if they took drugs or not?
Worry about your own achievements, ffs.
[/quote]
This is a good point, but we are all guilty of comparing and measuring up each other is almost all aspects of life (career, money, looks, car whatever). It is stupid, but we all do it to some extent. My view is if someone is more successful in something than myself (and I am interested in being more successful at that particular thing) then let me try to learn from this guy or gal. Their success is my success and vice versa.
Back to the bodybuilding natural vs enhanced, I can respect both. Each requires hardwork, tons for sacrifice and a level of dedication that is hard to find with the average person. Of course, the fruits of their labor will be dramatically different. I can understand the decision to go the steroid route, we all are looking for an edge to improve our progress and here is a proven method that works 99% of the time, tough to deny such a temptation. Drugs work 10 times better than any supplement we can purchase here, just a fact. It changes the rules by which your body response to exercise and nutrition. That is powerful.
If, like a popular member here recently stated, I want to go Pro, then it is a necessary fact: You will need all the discipline and hardwork you can muster AND a truckload of hormones & ancillary drugs. If you have the balls,pun intended, to go that route and that is what you truly want, how can I judge you on following your dreams? I too as a young buck wanted to be Mr. Olympia one day, I not so quickly realized its not in the cards for me and that is perfectly fine. I compete in small non-tested NPC shows sometimes against people who are very much on drugs and get beat, plain and simple. Is it because of the drugs I lose, no…but it certainly changes the type of physique one can bring onstage. Unless you are a true rookie, “growing into a show” is near impossible for a natural bodybuilder. Muscle & Fiction magazine continues to misinform many a young man.
I can identify with the statement You only go around once, you might as well go around with really big biceps. I think we all here love that. My question would be a benefit/risk ratio. Bodybuilders and particularly enhanced bodybuilders give up so much for a relatively small reward. What motivates someone to take such risks? Money? Very few really make large amounts of money and many of these bodybuilding cribs shows are a false representation of most bodybuilders. Fame? Ask the guy on the street who Jay Cutler is and he will say the QB for the Chicago Bears. The ablity to say they are one of the best in the world at something? Ok, I can respect that, we all can respect that. Success in any sport requires some level of risk, but at least the other risky sports like NFL with a 100% injury rate and something like boxing, getting pounded in the head is just not good for you, the athletes are very well rewarded. Now if my multi-million dollar NFL contract is on the line, I might reach for something for a little boost as well, which is one reason pro sports in general is a bunch of hypocrisy but that is another story.
Every user I have known personally loved being on, hated being off and at the end of the whole thing later felt like a moron for taking it.
That is not to say if you are a user you are a moron, just got this feedback from regular old school competive bodybuilding/powerlifting types, if you were Mr. Olympia I am sure you feel better about the whole thing.[/quote]
Nice post Myosin. Just going to side step all of the opinions/arguments here about genetics and drug use. I’ll say that like most of the people that stuck to the OP, I find a natural physique more respectable. But I would not take anything away from the person that used PED’s and looks great at the same time, regardless you still have to put in the work at the gym and plan everything out. Maybe less planning, and you have more room for mistakes? Sure, but none the less it’s still work.
lol @ powerlifters making the most sense in the bodybuilding forum
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Not everyone responds the same way to AAS use.
Some people will respond extremely well and other wont… That would be part of “genetics.”
[/quote]
true dat. I remember Dorian posted his off-season cycle on another site. It was:
750g test
500mg deca
anavar 50mg/day
and that’s it. That is NOT a heavy cycle by any means.
[/quote]
1.6g total isn’t heavy, but it’s definitely not “light” either. ESPECIALLY when you consider that people whose incomes rely on them consistently being giant humans don’t cycle, they stay on, this is pretty realistic. Likely to have been insulin usage in the off season, along with some GH, etc.
Off season dosages are somewhat inconsequential in bodybuilding, contest time is when things get weird. If he was doing 1.6 year round all off season, you can double that and that’s probably your minimum in the few months leading up to competition. Moderate to high doses of trenbolone, test prop, winny, mast, var, gh, and all manner of thyroid and thermogenic aids within the same week are not uncommon for the average competitor, not to mention IFBB pros.
[quote]jldume wrote:
[quote]Myosin wrote:
[quote]Elegua360 wrote:
I’m thinking about the original post, the thing that started all of this.
I have to ask, what’s with you guys over-thinking other guy’s physiques? If you aren’t a male model, BB competitor, or screen actor, then why would you waste one moment of your life looking at another man’s body and wondering if you’re superior or inferior to that person because of one aspect of their physical symmetry?
For that matter, how pathetic is it to further quantify your own self-worth by wondering if they took drugs or not?
Worry about your own achievements, ffs.
[/quote]
This is a good point, but we are all guilty of comparing and measuring up each other is almost all aspects of life (career, money, looks, car whatever). It is stupid, but we all do it to some extent. My view is if someone is more successful in something than myself (and I am interested in being more successful at that particular thing) then let me try to learn from this guy or gal. Their success is my success and vice versa.
Back to the bodybuilding natural vs enhanced, I can respect both. Each requires hardwork, tons for sacrifice and a level of dedication that is hard to find with the average person. Of course, the fruits of their labor will be dramatically different. I can understand the decision to go the steroid route, we all are looking for an edge to improve our progress and here is a proven method that works 99% of the time, tough to deny such a temptation. Drugs work 10 times better than any supplement we can purchase here, just a fact. It changes the rules by which your body response to exercise and nutrition. That is powerful.
If, like a popular member here recently stated, I want to go Pro, then it is a necessary fact: You will need all the discipline and hardwork you can muster AND a truckload of hormones & ancillary drugs. If you have the balls,pun intended, to go that route and that is what you truly want, how can I judge you on following your dreams? I too as a young buck wanted to be Mr. Olympia one day, I not so quickly realized its not in the cards for me and that is perfectly fine. I compete in small non-tested NPC shows sometimes against people who are very much on drugs and get beat, plain and simple. Is it because of the drugs I lose, no…but it certainly changes the type of physique one can bring onstage. Unless you are a true rookie, “growing into a show” is near impossible for a natural bodybuilder. Muscle & Fiction magazine continues to misinform many a young man.
I can identify with the statement You only go around once, you might as well go around with really big biceps. I think we all here love that. My question would be a benefit/risk ratio. Bodybuilders and particularly enhanced bodybuilders give up so much for a relatively small reward. What motivates someone to take such risks? Money? Very few really make large amounts of money and many of these bodybuilding cribs shows are a false representation of most bodybuilders. Fame? Ask the guy on the street who Jay Cutler is and he will say the QB for the Chicago Bears. The ablity to say they are one of the best in the world at something? Ok, I can respect that, we all can respect that. Success in any sport requires some level of risk, but at least the other risky sports like NFL with a 100% injury rate and something like boxing, getting pounded in the head is just not good for you, the athletes are very well rewarded. Now if my multi-million dollar NFL contract is on the line, I might reach for something for a little boost as well, which is one reason pro sports in general is a bunch of hypocrisy but that is another story.
Every user I have known personally loved being on, hated being off and at the end of the whole thing later felt like a moron for taking it.
That is not to say if you are a user you are a moron, just got this feedback from regular old school competive bodybuilding/powerlifting types, if you were Mr. Olympia I am sure you feel better about the whole thing.[/quote]
Nice post Myosin. Just going to side step all of the opinions/arguments here about genetics and drug use. I’ll say that like most of the people that stuck to the OP, I find a natural physique more respectable. But I would not take anything away from the person that used PED’s and looks great at the same time, regardless you still have to put in the work at the gym and plan everything out. Maybe less planning, and you have more room for mistakes? Sure, but none the less it’s still work. [/quote]
umm no if anything more planning is needed when running cycles. each to there own but truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
Why do you guys listen to him at all?
I mean, really.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
Why do you guys listen to him at all?
I mean, really.[/quote]
good point. Ignore it and it’ll go away
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
Why do you guys listen to him at all?
I mean, really.[/quote]
good point. Ignore it and it’ll go away
[/quote]
Just like cancer.
lol
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Just like cancer.
lol[/quote]
LOL!
I think I’d prefer cancer
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
He did say very few, not none. With this I agree, natty’s might be more impressive if steroids never existed but they do. Steroids don’t make me think less of someone but I do wonder why the fuck they use if they look like an average joe with some extra muscle.
When it comes to Natty’s I’m more impressed with their discipline. Many have an insane degree of discipline, and attention to details, but physically no they just don’t impress that much. It’s like looking at Coco, my first thought is big TnA.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Just like cancer.
lol[/quote]
LOL!
I think I’d prefer cancer[/quote]
LOL
Well, at least most cancers are treatable.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
to all you wimps who are considering steroids, maybe you should put in 5+ years of hard training and eating to get the physique you want, maybe then you will have some respect
so easy to take steroids and get there, it’s not even a challenge really
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
[/quote]
MOST NATTYS dont impress me what is wrong with saying that.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
[/quote]
MOST NATTYS dont impress me what is wrong with saying that. [/quote]
you don’t even know if you are capable of getting where “MOST NATTYS” are, yet they don’t impress you?
maybe with that steroid use you might, though
do you have any examples of a natty that doesn’t impress you?
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
[/quote]
MOST NATTYS dont impress me what is wrong with saying that. [/quote]
you don’t even know if you are capable of getting where “MOST NATTYS” are, yet they don’t impress you?
maybe with that steroid use you might, though
do you have any examples of a natty that doesn’t impress you?
[/quote]
natty BB or just trainer? and even in the ranks of natty bodybuilding drug use is common. there are very few actual nattys that are impressive.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
[/quote]
MOST NATTYS dont impress me what is wrong with saying that. [/quote]
I actually have no problem with people who say this. Let’s be honest, very few people who don’t really follow natty BBing have no clue who the top guys are and just how impressive they may appear in person (go stand next to Martin Daniels and tell me he’s not one big mofo -lol).
HOWEVER, if you base your opinion on the multitude of natties who fill the internet with their training logs, daily pics snapped in the gym or bathroom, and facebook updates of every single thing they eat, the amount of actual competitors who make it to the stage still possessing any degree of impressive muscle left is small indeed.
I have heard people refer to natural bodybuilding as dieting contests, and while as someone who chooses to compete at a natural pro, I completely understand what they’re getting at.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… truth be told there are very few nattys who really impress me. not being arrogant just my opinion.[/quote]
Not even our own Stu, or Jim Cordova?
[/quote]
notice how i said very few? yes stu is impressive and so is jim even thought he is a manlet.
EDIT: just read the post bellow, what i cant have a fucking opinion now? everyone aound here gets so butt hurt over the smallest things. tell me what was wrong with what i said this time?[/quote]
listen bro, you probably have a sub par physique as a natty, how can most nattys not impress you when you are not there now, and maybe could never achieve that physique as a natty?
even you on steroids would probably be < most natty bodybuilders
[/quote]
MOST NATTYS dont impress me what is wrong with saying that. [/quote]
I actually have no problem with people who say this. Let’s be honest, very few people who don’t really follow natty BBing have no clue who the top guys are and just how impressive they may appear in person (go stand next to Martin Daniels and tell me he’s not one big mofo -lol).
HOWEVER, if you base your opinion on the multitude of natties who fill the internet with their training logs, daily pics snapped in the gym or bathroom, and facebook updates of every single thing they eat, the amount of actual competitors who make it to the stage still possessing any degree of impressive muscle left is small indeed.
I have heard people refer to natural bodybuilding as dieting contests, and while as someone who chooses to compete at a natural pro, I completely understand what they’re getting at.
S
[/quote]
thank you, im not saying nattys dont work hard, jut that majoirty of them i dont find impressive. its great you can be mature about it and not just call me a jealous fucking idiot.