I don’t see how someone’s height makes it harder to get your legs around them. Girth yes, height, I don’t see it.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I don’t see how someone’s height makes it harder to get your legs around them. Girth yes, height, I don’t see it.
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I’m not talking a couple inches. I’m talking a substantial height difference. I’m 5’2". The shortest person I’ve rolled with is probably about 5’9". That’s quite a difference in body sizes.
I’m 5’6" and the ones I have a problem getting my legs around are those who are very fat.
There are drills to work on guard mobility. I’m sure some are available on youtube and such. Some are on instructional DVDs, Tinguinha’s guard DVDs show some for example. Andre Galvao just came out with a book all about drills and I’m sure it must have some that deal with the guard. It’s around 25 dollars. I am expecting it to arrive in a few days so I can post about it here when I get it.
I have found that the most important factor for short legs is making space for the hips to move. Example: when throwing a leg over for the triangle or arm bar I have to move my hips out, move to a more perpendicular position in relation to my opponent, to a greater degree than someone with long legs. I usually use a high closed guard so my hips are not as close to my opponent’s hips (I am not under him as much) and I am closer to the position I will finish the submissions from. Robson Moura is short and he has a sick guard so you may want to check him out to see how he moves on his back. On one of his DVD sets he has a DVD dedicated to the high guard. On his DVDs his partner is also taller than he is so you get a good idea of how the techniques work against a taller person.
If you are short you can still have a great guard. I have short legs and in my school I am known for having one of the better guards. taller people can do certain things with their legs shorter people can’t but shorter people can do things taller people can’t. Being short didn’t stop Marcelo Garcia from being a champion and having one of the best guards out there.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I’m 5’6" and the ones I have a problem getting my legs around are those who are very fat.
There are drills to work on guard mobility. I’m sure some are available on youtube and such. Some are on instructional DVDs, Tinguinha’s guard DVDs show some for example. Andre Galvao just came out with a book all about drills and I’m sure it must have some that deal with the guard. It’s around 25 dollars. I am expecting it to arrive in a few days so I can post about it here when I get it.
I have found that the most important factor for short legs is making space for the hips to move. Example: when throwing a leg over for the triangle or arm bar I have to move my hips out, move to a more perpendicular position in relation to my opponent, to a greater degree than someone with long legs. I usually use a high closed guard so my hips are not as close to my opponent’s hips (I am not under him as much) and I am closer to the position I will finish the submissions from. Robson Moura is short and he has a sick guard so you may want to check him out to see how he moves on his back. On one of his DVD sets he has a DVD dedicated to the high guard. On his DVDs his partner is also taller than he is so you get a good idea of how the techniques work against a taller person.
If you are short you can still have a great guard. I have short legs and in my school I am known for having one of the better guards. taller people can do certain things with their legs shorter people can’t but shorter people can do things taller people can’t. Being short didn’t stop Marcelo Garcia from being a champion and having one of the best guards out there. [/quote]
Cool, thanks!
And I think that is my main problem like others have pointed out, I have poor hip mobility as of now, and I need to drill things a lot more. I’m sloppy/slower when doing things like a triangle choke – even though I can identify when there is an opening for it-- I don’t have a whole lot of experience and the more experienced people tend to lean back which creates difficulty for me because I’m not all that great at moving my hips yet(combined with my short legs)!
I didn’t know Marcelo was all that short, either. He’s amazing to watch! His take downs are crazy fast and effective – and that’s not even the highlight of BJJ.
I was just watching a seminar with Eddie Bravo and he was talking about how unbelievable Marcelo’s squeeze power is. Interesting stuff.
He was also saying in another one how it is harder for small guys to work on their guard when working with bigger guys 
As a short guy, you’re going to have to be mobile. And fit. That’s just the way it is. You’re going to be spikey little ball. And, yeah, work on flexibility. Short guys can have guards that are pain in ass to deal with. Big guys are going to want to squash you and you’ll need to avoid that. And I speak as as 205lb guy …
A few things: you’re a former wrestler and a newb at BJJ. This is good and bad. Wrestlers have lots of good things going for them – aggression, great in the scramble, work ethic, good takedowns, etc. But there’s some baggage and things that you’re probably doing (most wrestlers get triangled and guillotined a lot when they start). Have someone teach you how to shoot properly to avoid the guillotine, for example. And the gi is going to make your life hell for a while.
The upshot is that you’re new. Don’t expect to be good simply because you wrestled. So drill and spar, drill and spar, learn technique, drill and spar…
Oh and forget the gogoplata for ages and ages unless you’re flexible as hell. It’s a parlor trick. Nino Schembri and Aoki can do it. You’re not them. I literally laughed at the last guy to try that on me – right before passing his guard.
OK the dexterity thing just comes with time. When I started out I was exactly how you describe. I am not a naturally dexterus person, I trip over things and bump into stuff all of the time.
I have been training BJJ for about 6 years now and I find that without even realising it I use my feet and legs as another set of hands when grappling. Just last night I was teaching some guys the spin to armbar from knee on belly and noticed that I was using one of my feet to hook and lift the far shoulder to stop the guy rolling out. That was not something I have ever been taught or deliberately learned to do, it was my legs reacting to the feel of the guy turning away and blocking their movement. It happened on a subconcious level.
Compare me to some of the guys that I train and spar with and I am still a novice. I am sure that 90% of what they do is instinctive instead of thought through.
The only way to do that is drill moves like crazy, spar a lot ideally in a reasonably free way (don’t just grab and hold, flow), and practice movement drills.
I do a lot of movement drills and I find they really help me become more fluid. I throw a heavy bag on the floor or use an excercise ball and practice transitions for hrs on end. It might seem boring compared to sparring or learning a new cool technique but it is well worth it.
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Loosen up those hips! You’ll throw up gogoplata’s in no time…[/quote]
Ohmygod, oh mygod, oh my god! I was SOOOOOOO close to getting someone in a gogoplata at gi jits last night!
To OP, as all angles have pretty much been covered, my only advice would be to make sure you stretch a TON after squat days. (From your pic I’m guessing you lift regularly), and make sure you’re not lifting too hard, as soreness can be a hugely limiting factor in how flexible your body is! I learned this the hard way!
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
I didn’t know Marcelo was all that short, either. He’s amazing to watch! His take downs are crazy fast and effective – and that’s not even the highlight of BJJ.
I was just watching a seminar with Eddie Bravo and he was talking about how unbelievable Marcelo’s squeeze power is. Interesting stuff.
He was also saying in another one how it is harder for small guys to work on their guard when working with bigger guys :P[/quote]
In his book Garcia mentions how he was putting a lot of time into the triangle choke, and had gotten quite good at it, but then decided it wasn’t the best move for him to try and focus on because he was short. I met him and I would say he’s probably five seven at most. The thing is that he always competed in the open weight classes so he faced guys who were much taller and heavier.
What I try and do, and it’s not something I made up but have heard that other BJJers do, is work on a new move with newer and/or lighter guys. Then as I get comfortable with it I incorporate when I train with bigger guys. But in short, no pun intended, not being tall won’t mean you’ll have a poor guard but a different one. Keep training, stay relaxed, talk to other people who train with you who are also shorter, if you can try and watch footage of some of the shorter elite BJJers compete or their instructionals, and eventually you’ll find what works for you.
To the OP: Video yourself rolling. It might not be leg dexterity, but most likely your hips. If you’re trying to pull off arm bars from guard while your hips are centered, that’s your problem. It’s easy to notice while drilling, but when rolling, you might not notice, especially if you’re new, that you are stuck in the center.
| - him
| - you
| - him
\ - you
That makes the difference.
Don’t bother messing around with Eddie Bravo’s system when you haven’t drilled the basics enough. If you want to try something new, ask about some positioning in open guard or butterfly guard. With short legs, closed guard might not be something you will be using in your game (although you should still drill).
Hey everybody,
Sorry for not posting – I had taken an emergency trip to see some family.
Thanks for all your replies and the time you took to post!
I haven’t had time to really read everything but I sure will later – just wanted to drop a line.
[quote]Res Judicata wrote:
As a short guy, you’re going to have to be mobile. And fit. That’s just the way it is. You’re going to be spikey little ball. And, yeah, work on flexibility. Short guys can have guards that are pain in ass to deal with. Big guys are going to want to squash you and you’ll need to avoid that. And I speak as as 205lb guy …
A few things: you’re a former wrestler and a newb at BJJ. This is good and bad. Wrestlers have lots of good things going for them – aggression, great in the scramble, work ethic, good takedowns, etc. But there’s some baggage and things that you’re probably doing (most wrestlers get triangled and guillotined a lot when they start). Have someone teach you how to shoot properly to avoid the guillotine, for example. And the gi is going to make your life hell for a while.
The upshot is that you’re new. Don’t expect to be good simply because you wrestled. So drill and spar, drill and spar, learn technique, drill and spar…
Oh and forget the gogoplata for ages and ages unless you’re flexible as hell. It’s a parlor trick. Nino Schembri and Aoki can do it. You’re not them. I literally laughed at the last guy to try that on me – right before passing his guard. [/quote]
Heh, thanks for your response, man.
After I posted this thread I realized I was trying too many tricks I’ve seen (gogoplatas!) and I blame that for my ignorance of the art in general. It’s definitely not something you can just jump into and be good at, that’s for sure!
And yes! I sure do get caught in triangles all the time. Oh wait… I get caught in everything all the time…
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK the dexterity thing just comes with time. When I started out I was exactly how you describe. I am not a naturally dexterus person, I trip over things and bump into stuff all of the time.
I have been training BJJ for about 6 years now and I find that without even realising it I use my feet and legs as another set of hands when grappling. Just last night I was teaching some guys the spin to armbar from knee on belly and noticed that I was using one of my feet to hook and lift the far shoulder to stop the guy rolling out. That was not something I have ever been taught or deliberately learned to do, it was my legs reacting to the feel of the guy turning away and blocking their movement. It happened on a subconcious level.
Compare me to some of the guys that I train and spar with and I am still a novice. I am sure that 90% of what they do is instinctive instead of thought through.
The only way to do that is drill moves like crazy, spar a lot ideally in a reasonably free way (don’t just grab and hold, flow), and practice movement drills.
I do a lot of movement drills and I find they really help me become more fluid. I throw a heavy bag on the floor or use an excercise ball and practice transitions for hrs on end. It might seem boring compared to sparring or learning a new cool technique but it is well worth it.[/quote]
Thanks alot! It’s nice to hear from somebody who knows exactly what I meant. Thanks for the ideas on the movement drills as well. I think I’ve seen MMA fighters doing that.
Thanks for your reply:) how long have you been doing bjj? You look pretty young. And I’m actually pretty relaxed with my lifting right now. I’m not going all out on it cause I keep messing up my right wrist over and over again. The dang thing is wicked sensitive… sometimes I feel like if I grab a gallon of water wrong, I’ll be in pain for a week.
Thanks for you reply, too! It’d be hard for me to find a smaller guy to practice a new move on! heh! And thanks for the tip: I do enjoy watching as many videos of BJJ as I can. I’m gonna buy a book or two really soon.
Thank you so much for your reply. Your post has definitely shed a ton of light on my issues. I always feel stuck in the middle! And yeah, I’ll stay away from Eddie Bravo’s stuff for sure. It may sound silly - but I didn’t realize it was very advanced (I’m a total noob!) I had just thought it was what BJJ is to JJJ. Ah, whatever.
Thanks again to everybody who took the time to reply. I am a total noob but I look forward to discussing BJJ with you guys and asking any questions I may have. I’ve definitely found a new romance. BJJ.
If you get a book, get Saulo Ribeiro’s Jiu-Jitsu University.