Layne Norton vs. Ice Cream Fitness

Training
21

[quote]mbag012 wrote:
layne norton and…the other guy cookie cream fitness or something, i think theyre both fucking shit[/quote]

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions. I know I’ve got my own, so no worries there. Still, what you can’t deny is that Layne has accomplished things in the sports he participates in (Professional status and record holder respectively as a natural/drug tested bodybuilder and a powerlifter), as well as earning his Phd and publishing peer reviewed papers.

It a bit odd for some nobody who built up a questionable fanbase from youtube videos, with no real world accomplishments that I can see (aside from his self proclaimed former drug dealer status) to be in a position to levy criticisms based solely on his “expert” opinions.

S

22

[quote]mbag012 wrote:
layne norton and…the other guy cookie cream fitness or something, i think theyre both fucking shit[/quote]

Great post!

23

I think we all can appreciate the motivation behind trying to maintain the mantle of ‘natural’ when making a stake in the fitness industry, but in truth I’m so jaded that I can’t really believe that anyone whose reputation and livlihood is based on their personal physique is not using drugs to some degree.

Furthermore, I’m doubtful that anyone sporting a well developed or what I would call a mature physique while still being young is natural either. I admit the possibility that I could be wrong, and therefore I would never run around, point my fingers, and attempt to call BS but I definitely would be a hard sell if you were trying to convince me.

24

isn’t the main point of contention for his “haters” that he’s heavier at his height than pretty much every natty pro? (not sure at all if that’s a true fact)

His recommendations have helped me a lot, and they still will regardless of his naaattty status. Understandably, not everyone has such a simple or small interest in the issue as I do.

25

[quote]jeremielemauvais wrote:
Correct for the most part.

In order to convince the “natural hero” crowd, a trainer/guru must look either big and be strong but soft/not-ripped OR he must be ripped but stringy, bird boned with tiny wrists and unable to hoist impressive weights (exception being the 5’8" and under crowd who can look filled out AND ripped without ever touching so much as a pro-hormone)

Layne carries decent size (compared to a LIFETIME natty) at contest level leanness, so the “natural hero” crowd wont need much fodder to be convinced he’s been lying to them.

That said, I remain unconvinced that there’s more money in that segment (not natural lifters, I mean the “natural hero” segment). For the most part that segment is filled with people on the FB friend lists of the likes of Jason Ferrugia (fan base = middle aged crowd who dont spend that much) and Ian McCarthy (fan base = college and school aged crowd who CAN’T spend that much)[/quote]

I like the phrase “natural hero”.

Money in the natural circuit includes what these natural heroes earn for themselves as well as what they bring to companies and organizations. Management companies like JM/FMG make money representing natural heroes and every win increases their earnings and incentives for others to sign with them.

Placing aside the Manion/Manion connection, everyone knows competitors represented by Fitness Management Group (FMG) dominate Natural Physique Committee stages, and both their women and men dominated Mr. Olympia 2013 this past weekend.

These natural heroes are also very good at marketing themselves and keeping ahead of the curve with social media. Most have a fan base that follows their journeys and fitness advice. Signing a good-looking, charismatic, natty competitor who is shown to have a sizable number of loyal fans allows a product-based sponsor to instantly capture an audience.

In some cases, these heroes are created. A relatable every-man plucked from the throngs of fitness enthusiasts and propped up as a shining example of what everyone can achieve if they simply work hard enough.

While they can grow their brand and earn a lot for themselves, these natural heroes have a popularity and halo effect that is very useful to other companies and media outlets.

26


*

27

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
I would like to see a debate video between the two
[/quote]

I wouldn’t. Layne Norton and Jason Blaha are on different levels.

If it does happen I hope Jason has someone go over his wardrobe choices because he did not have the hips to pull off that purple valour cocktail dress.

(Seriously. He’s wearing a dress. Check the first 15 seconds of the video.)

Edit: attaching the image I wanted with the message.

28

At this point in time, I am sick of MOST fitness professionals!

To me, the main aim, aside from earning a living, as we all know, of a fitness professional is to help people get in shape and healthy and perform better.

Now, whether someone is competent or highly successful, at this age, I’ve grown VERY tired of braggarts. Seriously, if someone is successful, then I give credit. But that’s where it ends! I don’t have to be reminded over and over and over again by the successful person of what he does or how everyone else is a jerkoff doing it wrong. Like… say someone is a dentist. That’s an admirable position and it probably took some smarts and hard work and sacrifice to attain the position. But I don’t need to be reminded over and over and over again the person is a dentist. Many fitness professionals have this sort of tenor in their social media updates as of late: "Look at me; I’m successful. Other gurus do it wrong, and I do it right. I’m sure some are harmless, nice guys, but this stuff gets annoying and distasteful.

Same low brow stuff goes for these You Tube trendies who make videos on almost nothing informative, but to remind everyone who’s natural or not or do other sorts of bashing. If someone wants to bash Bostin Lloyd because he’s doing bodybuilding drugs “wrong” and how he’s obviously "all roids because he went from a semi-built, semi-chubby 19 year old to a goddamn hulk in a year because of roid use, then screw them–as if there’s some right age to start them or how to use them; you know, because at 19 T is just flooding the body and all top IFBB pros “waited”. It’s goddamn corny to follow people around on You Tube to bash them. If I had a popular You Tube video and I wanted to discuss natty limits, I’d just say basic stuff like, if someone has an FFMI of 25 or more, it can REASONABLY be assumed there’s drug use. If some kid emailed me, “Do you think Kali is natural?”, I’d simply write back and say, “See my video in which I discuss reasonable natural limits” and not have to be a huge baby and make a whole video titled something like “Did Kali get that big because of tuna and ramen noodles?” or “Kali is a liar”.

As some of us have recognized, the fitness world is flooded with distasteful and INFANTILE people.

29

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
At this point in time, I am sick of MOST fitness professionals!

To me, the main aim, aside from earning a living, as we all know, of a fitness professional is to help people get in shape and healthy and perform better.

Now, whether someone is competent or highly successful, at this age, I’ve grown VERY tired of braggarts. Seriously, if someone is successful, then I give credit. But that’s where it ends! I don’t have to be reminded over and over and over again by the successful person of what he does or how everyone else is a jerkoff doing it wrong. Like… say someone is a dentist. That’s an admirable position and it probably took some smarts and hard work and sacrifice to attain the position. But I don’t need to be reminded over and over and over again the person is a dentist. Many fitness professionals have this sort of tenor in their social media updates as of late: "Look at me; I’m successful. Other gurus do it wrong, and I do it right. I’m sure some are harmless, nice guys, but this stuff gets annoying and distasteful.

Same low brow stuff goes for these You Tube trendies who make videos on almost nothing informative, but to remind everyone who’s natural or not or do other sorts of bashing. If someone wants to bash Bostin Lloyd because he’s doing bodybuilding drugs “wrong” and how he’s obviously "all roids because he went from a semi-built, semi-chubby 19 year old to a goddamn hulk in a year because of roid use, then screw them–as if there’s some right age to start them or how to use them; you know, because at 19 T is just flooding the body and all top IFBB pros “waited”. It’s goddamn corny to follow people around on You Tube to bash them. If I had a popular You Tube video and I wanted to discuss natty limits, I’d just say basic stuff like, if someone has an FFMI of 25 or more, it can REASONABLY be assumed there’s drug use. If some kid emailed me, “Do you think Kali is natural?”, I’d simply write back and say, “See my video in which I discuss reasonable natural limits” and not have to be a huge baby and make a whole video titled something like “Did Kali get that big because of tuna and ramen noodles?” or “Kali is a liar”.

As some of us have recognized, the fitness world is flooded with distasteful and INFANTILE people. [/quote]

It probably beats spending a year being unemployed sending resumes to a thousand places all over the globe while posting constant rants on facebook and trolling fitness sites - embracing the persona of the “anti-establishment” guy (anti-guru).

On a more serious note, everyone’s out to make a living by finding his/her niche in the fitness industry, with his vehicle of choice (internet marketing, facebook, youtube, whatever) unless they have a lucrative day job… be it Kali, Hodgetwins, Dante, Ferrugia, ice cream fitness, Lyle McD, Berardi. Some more successful than others, each with a different audience and appeal. For every guru there’s a rabid anti-guru slinging shit on him/her. Such is life.

30

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Now, whether someone is competent or highly successful, at this age, I’ve grown VERY tired of braggarts. Seriously, if someone is successful, then I give credit. But that’s where it ends! I don’t have to be reminded over and over and over again by the successful person of what he does or how everyone else is a jerkoff doing it wrong. Like… say someone is a dentist. That’s an admirable position and it probably took some smarts and hard work and sacrifice to attain the position. But I don’t need to be reminded over and over and over again the person is a dentist. Many fitness professionals have this sort of tenor in their social media updates as of late: "Look at me; I’m successful. Other gurus do it wrong, and I do it right. I’m sure some are harmless, nice guys, but this stuff gets annoying and distasteful.[/quote]

Word.

And I find it far too time-consuming to sift through all this braggadocia at YouTube in order to find truly helpful and high-quality training advice. I understand why many people subscribe to these channels: they’re beginners, probably don’t have knowledgeable training partners and need someone to take them by the hand, show them the ropes and answer their questions. At heart, it’s an altruistic phenomenon.

The problem is that most of these (usually self-proclaimed) fitness experts have commercial motives and want to create an image, which leads to the kinds of debates like the one pointed to in this thread. It’s impossible to get away from that, because everyone needs a reason to post something on YouTube, but it’s still disconcerting to think that thousands of young trainees might solely rely on dudes like Ice Cream Fitness for their training advice. This leads to the kind of chest-pumping that so many YouTube gurus display, which (although strength training is mainly an individual sport) reeks of poor sportsmanship. It’s all rather embarrassing.

31

While I don’t really know most of the youtube-era “experts”, I will say that I’ve noticed that many of the folks making videos criticizing others and stirring up shit online are usually the ones that haven’t ever stepped foot onstage, or even gotten others in seriously huge and shredded conditioning.

Now I’m certainly not saying that everyone has to be a competitor to know what they’re doing, but to me (admittedly, I’m a BBer at heart), it speaks volumes about knowing how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together. If someone has never been through the process of getting your body down to low single digit bodyfat, and at that point, seen the difference that proper manipulation of various variables can have, then who the hell are they do make any claims as to how someone else did it?

Personally, I think dieting for a show is a very humbling experience to many. It not only can verify how much you do/don’t know, but it makes you take an honest look at how much lbm you may actually have. Most of the Pros I interact with are some of the humblest people you’re ever going to meet. They’ve got nothing to prove because the majority seem to have began the sport for their own goals, and not simply financial gain.

It’s sad to me that so many people that I would never really follow their advice, have staked out a niche due to being among the first to jump on the online-cyber-mass-spam-e-mail-pimp-your-friends’-sites bandwagon. Credibility is gone in this age of ‘magic photographs’ and ‘expert testimonials’.

S

32

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
At this point in time, I am sick of MOST fitness professionals!

To me, the main aim, aside from earning a living, as we all know, of a fitness professional is to help people get in shape and healthy and perform better.

Now, whether someone is competent or highly successful, at this age, I’ve grown VERY tired of braggarts. Seriously, if someone is successful, then I give credit. But that’s where it ends! I don’t have to be reminded over and over and over again by the successful person of what he does or how everyone else is a jerkoff doing it wrong. Like… say someone is a dentist. That’s an admirable position and it probably took some smarts and hard work and sacrifice to attain the position. But I don’t need to be reminded over and over and over again the person is a dentist. Many fitness professionals have this sort of tenor in their social media updates as of late: "Look at me; I’m successful. Other gurus do it wrong, and I do it right. I’m sure some are harmless, nice guys, but this stuff gets annoying and distasteful.

Same low brow stuff goes for these You Tube trendies who make videos on almost nothing informative, but to remind everyone who’s natural or not or do other sorts of bashing. If someone wants to bash Bostin Lloyd because he’s doing bodybuilding drugs “wrong” and how he’s obviously "all roids because he went from a semi-built, semi-chubby 19 year old to a goddamn hulk in a year because of roid use, then screw them–as if there’s some right age to start them or how to use them; you know, because at 19 T is just flooding the body and all top IFBB pros “waited”. It’s goddamn corny to follow people around on You Tube to bash them. If I had a popular You Tube video and I wanted to discuss natty limits, I’d just say basic stuff like, if someone has an FFMI of 25 or more, it can REASONABLY be assumed there’s drug use. If some kid emailed me, “Do you think Kali is natural?”, I’d simply write back and say, “See my video in which I discuss reasonable natural limits” and not have to be a huge baby and make a whole video titled something like “Did Kali get that big because of tuna and ramen noodles?” or “Kali is a liar”.

As some of us have recognized, the fitness world is flooded with distasteful and INFANTILE people. [/quote]

So how do you really feel Brick?

33

Seriously though, I agree with you. It gets old listening to the “if you don’t do it my way, you aren’t doing it the best way” one size fits all type mentality. Also gets old with the bickering and backbiting between some of them. The Guru fan clubs, the anti-guru’s, the purposeful misinformation perpetuated by many of them about their drug use. Its just annoying and gets so far off track that very little of the actual information that comes out is useful.

34

I enjoy Jason’s youtube channel.

35

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
At this point in time, I am sick of MOST fitness professionals!

To me, the main aim, aside from earning a living, as we all know, of a fitness professional is to help people get in shape and healthy and perform better.

Now, whether someone is competent or highly successful, at this age, I’ve grown VERY tired of braggarts. Seriously, if someone is successful, then I give credit. But that’s where it ends! I don’t have to be reminded over and over and over again by the successful person of what he does or how everyone else is a jerkoff doing it wrong. Like… say someone is a dentist. That’s an admirable position and it probably took some smarts and hard work and sacrifice to attain the position. But I don’t need to be reminded over and over and over again the person is a dentist. Many fitness professionals have this sort of tenor in their social media updates as of late: "Look at me; I’m successful. Other gurus do it wrong, and I do it right. I’m sure some are harmless, nice guys, but this stuff gets annoying and distasteful.

Same low brow stuff goes for these You Tube trendies who make videos on almost nothing informative, but to remind everyone who’s natural or not or do other sorts of bashing. If someone wants to bash Bostin Lloyd because he’s doing bodybuilding drugs “wrong” and how he’s obviously "all roids because he went from a semi-built, semi-chubby 19 year old to a goddamn hulk in a year because of roid use, then screw them–as if there’s some right age to start them or how to use them; you know, because at 19 T is just flooding the body and all top IFBB pros “waited”. It’s goddamn corny to follow people around on You Tube to bash them. If I had a popular You Tube video and I wanted to discuss natty limits, I’d just say basic stuff like, if someone has an FFMI of 25 or more, it can REASONABLY be assumed there’s drug use. If some kid emailed me, “Do you think Kali is natural?”, I’d simply write back and say, “See my video in which I discuss reasonable natural limits” and not have to be a huge baby and make a whole video titled something like “Did Kali get that big because of tuna and ramen noodles?” or “Kali is a liar”.

As some of us have recognized, the fitness world is flooded with distasteful and INFANTILE people. [/quote]

So how do you really feel Brick?[/quote]

haha. What happened really when the young & naive Brick got into the fitness biz? Must have been terrible…Maybe there is a little book deal in there.

36

I actually want to start my own You Tube channel, but I have nothing new to say and I’m not nearly flamboyant or obnoxious or socially maladjusted or nerdy enough to compete with the assortment of goons on there.

37

I know some worthwhile people that would probably allow me to interview them though and would want to cover events and shows I go to with my own commentary perhaps. I have some ideas.

38

Find your niche and exploit the fuck out of it without losing your day job.

Ive told you before…for you its the crossover appeal : you are able to apply lessons from natural and assisted bodybuilders and weightlifters, integrate it with your training in dietetics (regular joes love degrees like that) and chart out solutions for everyday people whose goals lie across the continuum of expectations (housewife wanting to squeeze into her wedding dress → desk jockey who wants a p90X transformation) Thats also where the money lies. White-collar weekend warriors… the blue collar crowd is more likely to be content flipping tires and hoisting axles on the other hand.

Competing BBers have their own system and you cant break in this late.

The BB or physique “wannabe” segment isn’t for you either (penniless twenty-something chumps loading boxes for a day job), neither is youtube : you lack the WOW factor, just like Alan Aragon and Lyle McD and other “anti-gurus”. Anti gurus appeal more to the “natural hero” crowd, but these on the other hand are simply over-wise teenagers/late teens without much cash.

Simply stick with everyday joes who are willing to temporarily suspend reality in pursuit of their goals. Facebook is going to work in your favor.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I know some worthwhile people that would probably allow me to interview them though and would want to cover events and shows I go to with my own commentary perhaps. I have some ideas. [/quote]

39

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I actually want to start my own You Tube channel, but I have nothing new to say and I’m not nearly flamboyant or obnoxious or socially maladjusted or nerdy enough to compete with the assortment of goons on there. [/quote]

Don’t do it. Just pull a Shelby and be a bad-ass, no bs guy who helps clients get the body they want. Like you said, there is actually nothing really new or at least practically relevant to say about the whole thing.

40

I say do one contest just to have fun and get a feel for it, and then be a low cost prep coach. I would pay for that. I would want a coach to just spend an hour total with me a week. Most of the prep coaches I see look expensive and very hands on (worth the $) or expensive but will just send you emails with macros for the week lol. not sure if that’s a really good business model tbh

I think once I get my gym finalized, I’ll make some video reviews on equipment and show people how to make a gym for cheap. Most of the advice I read this past month on buying equipment was BS. I honestly can’t watch these youtube channels any more. In a half hour video all I got from guys would be “seriously, IIFYM” and then some drama with another channel