Lateral Delts- Push or Pull?

I’ll try putting it differently than I did before.

(The Blue/Red/Legs example did get it really well from another angle, though.)

Let’s consider a similar question that’s been asked here before, “Are squats push or pull?”

But rather than worry about that – on the one hand the traps are pushing against the bar, but on the other hand Bill said not to make such things the deciding factor, so let’s see what muscles are being used… hmmm, largely the same as the deadlift so what, does that mean I do them on DL day? – you look at the practical aspect of what works for you or what can be expected to likely work well for you.

Depending on what the rest of the program is and depending on the person, doing squats on the same day as DL can be a great way to go.

For another person or another program, it’s not the way to go.

Not because of being “push” or “pull” but because of factors such as whether the lower back for the individual person does well with the amount of volume involved in training both squat and DL hard in the same day, and/or the overall frequency of the program.

Same here for upright rows.

There could be situations where you do them on same day as upper back exercises even though your shoulder work in general is on another day. This could work fine if you like the shoulders being “hit” on two different days in the split and everything else also went along well with it.

It wouldn’t be the usual way to go: usually you’d do it on the day shoulders are done.

The decision as to which way to go wouldn’t be out of “push” and “pull” but on entirely different factors such as whether you wanted to have that extra frequency for the shoulders.

If just splitting two ways then there really isn’t a question about it: same day as shoulders in general.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]ridethecliche wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ridethecliche wrote:
I’d say Pull.

If you’re doing them on a machine then it’s ‘like’ a push, except you’re basically doing upright rows which are a pull motion. [/quote]

Just a note…if you actually think that matters, something is wrong.[/quote]

I agree with you, but the OP’s working within a push/pull/legs split it seems so I’m trying to help him work within that. I see your point though.
[/quote]

You still don’t get it. “Push” and “pull” are just words. What if it was called a Blue/Red/Legs split? Which day would lateral raises go on blue day or red day. See where I’m going with that. Re-read Bill’s post. [/quote]

No. I get it. Even if one is doing a push/pull split, there’s going to be a day that has shoulders in it, so just put it there.

I was going by something like this: exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html

Do them with your overhead press

Best answer from jasmincar…

Instead of every damn thread turning into a viscious debate about the push/pull/lower split how about we provide answers that make sense…

If you do a single body part split then you put them in with your shoulder day…but not everyone does that. If you’re doing a push/pull/lower split then think of it in terms of body parts NOT movements. This is a BB forum, and I don’t mean BasketBall.

Day 1: Chest/Back
Day 2: Quads/Hams/Calves
Day 3: Shoulders/Arms
Day 4: Off
Rinse Repeat.

I like the above split for most people. Also putting shoulders and arms in together you can typically do more volume than if they were involved in a chest or back day (ie: the “typical” Push/Pull nonsense).

At some point though you’re going to get to a point where it doesn’t make sense to put chest and back on the same day due to the limitations of fatigue. At that point you may just want to go a simple body part split or you could alternate what you do first chest or back. Personally I like doing back first only because you’re going to be using a lot more weight on back exercises typically (Rows, Rack Pulls) and they are much more metabolically demanding than putting your ass on a bench and pushing weight up or sitting in a HS machine.

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Best answer from jasmincar…

Instead of every damn thread turning into a viscious debate about the push/pull/lower split how about we provide answers that make sense…

If you do a single body part split then you put them in with your shoulder day…but not everyone does that. If you’re doing a push/pull/lower split then think of it in terms of body parts NOT movements. This is a BB forum, and I don’t mean BasketBall.

Day 1: Chest/Back
Day 2: Quads/Hams/Calves
Day 3: Shoulders/Arms
Day 4: Off
Rinse Repeat.

I like the above split for most people. Also putting shoulders and arms in together you can typically do more volume than if they were involved in a chest or back day (ie: the “typical” Push/Pull nonsense).

At some point though you’re going to get to a point where it doesn’t make sense to put chest and back on the same day due to the limitations of fatigue. At that point you may just want to go a simple body part split or you could alternate what you do first chest or back. Personally I like doing back first only because you’re going to be using a lot more weight on back exercises typically (Rows, Rack Pulls) and they are much more metabolically demanding than putting your ass on a bench and pushing weight up or sitting in a HS machine. [/quote]

Yeah but doesn’t doing back first screws with your setup for bench? If it doesn’t a good way would be to alternate. You know, pairing exercises.

If it’s any help to the op, yesterday was push day for me (chest, shoulder, triceps). I did lateral raises after OH pressing.

Today is pull day (back, bicep and forearms) and I will also work rear delts with face-pulls or reverse peck-deck because that makes more sense to me than doing it on push day.

If you have a day just for shoulders though, then work all deltoid heads that day.

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I also can’t tell if the previous poster was even joking or not. I train shoulders on FUCKING SHOULDER DAY. I do believe THAT avoids all confusion.[/quote]

I don’t know why he should be joking, reading some authors here on this site it seems like balancing push and pull movements is something to consider when trying to keep shoulder health and avoiding imbalances.

I never really trained like that either but maybe that’s what the op is going for.

So anyway, op, it does make more sense to consider lateral delts as “push”.
[/quote]

Technique is far more important when it comes to push/pull balance/shoulder health than exactly matching the amount of pushing exercises with pulling exercises. Just throwing that out there.

And come on man… That username isn’t necessary now, is it?

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I also can’t tell if the previous poster was even joking or not. I train shoulders on FUCKING SHOULDER DAY. I do believe THAT avoids all confusion.[/quote]

I don’t know why he should be joking, reading some authors here on this site it seems like balancing push and pull movements is something to consider when trying to keep shoulder health and avoiding imbalances.

I never really trained like that either but maybe that’s what the op is going for.

So anyway, op, it does make more sense to consider lateral delts as “push”.
[/quote]

Technique is far more important when it comes to push/pull balance/shoulder health than exactly matching the amount of pushing exercises with pulling exercises. Just throwing that out there.

And come on man… That username isn’t necessary now, is it?
[/quote]

For what it’s worth I agree with ya.

The phonetics of my screen name are actually the pc term to describe my ethnicity here in Portugal, not that it matters in an American site, but last time I checked “negro” wasn’t a derogatory term in America either.

As a side note, C_C, I have some German friends, kind of left wingers, you know the type, they don’t own a TV, have a flag of Israel hanging on their room wall, and involve themselves in protests where they end up fighting with the nazis.

So anyway, we were in someone’s flat in Hamburg checking stuff out from youtube and someone goes “hey let’s check out this Adam Green interview with Stephan Raab” or some shit.

Adam Green was really big in Germany at that time, but I had never seen the dude. So the first second I see him I go “Shit I didn’t know he was a jew, I thought he was some older redneck”.

That didn’t go down too well, according to them it isn’t possible to distinguish jewish persons from gentiles based on physical appearance.

“That sounds like something a nazi would say, man”, they told me.

My point, C_C, is that you guys can sometimes be a bit over sensitive about some issues, which, based on recent History, I do understand, but let’s not exaggerate.

Shit, even rooting for Germany’s football team was, not long ago, considered nationalistic and fascist.

Anyway, entschuldigung fur die lange unterhaltung.

Why not do a push/pull/legs full body? For balance, do 2 upper pushes and 2 upper pulls + legs (either push or pull) each workout day. Add the lateral raises where you need them to balance out your push/pull for the day.

[quote]rhooper1 wrote:
Why not do a push/pull/legs full body? For balance, do 2 upper pushes and 2 upper pulls + legs (either push or pull) each workout day. Add the lateral raises where you need them to balance out your push/pull for the day. [/quote]

why bump this thread after a month and a half? Its dumb

.greg.

Why is everyone so aggressive here? He just wanted to help and you are calling him dumb?

you want aggressive? How about: don’t bump seven year old threads you cunt

Oh you can count, good progress. Are the doctors proud of you :slight_smile:

Ahhhhh T-Nation,… never change -lol

S