I could not agree more Mick but I guess it is somewhat irrelevant now whether the ratios were off and what caused it. If the results are confirmed it is synthetic, he is SOL regardless.
[quote]supermick wrote:
I think the real questions have failed to be answered. Im very confused about what appears to be a total fuck up all round…
A cyclist needs performance enchancing drugs to aid in well…performance. Would a single test shot have provided this? Is test the optimum aid to take? (i dont think so), test would surely, by default have raised his test levels - Isnt the main deal here that his epitest was low, not his test high?
Its no surprise that his b sample was found to have the same levels. When an athletes urine is taken, his sample is divided into 2 parts. An A sample and a B sample. The B sample only comes into play when the A brings up a result. If this is so, expect the B to confirm the A’s origional result.
Be interesting to see how his appeal handles all this. I still have the feeling this is far from over, which ultimately for the sport is shitty. Maybe that spanish wonder lawyer can help him???[/quote]
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I could not agree more Mick but I guess it is somewhat irrelevant now whether the ratios were off and what caused it. If the results are confirmed it is synthetic, he is SOL regardless.
supermick wrote:
I think the real questions have failed to be answered. Im very confused about what appears to be a total fuck up all round…
A cyclist needs performance enchancing drugs to aid in well…performance. Would a single test shot have provided this? Is test the optimum aid to take? (i dont think so), test would surely, by default have raised his test levels - Isnt the main deal here that his epitest was low, not his test high?
Its no surprise that his b sample was found to have the same levels. When an athletes urine is taken, his sample is divided into 2 parts. An A sample and a B sample. The B sample only comes into play when the A brings up a result. If this is so, expect the B to confirm the A’s origional result.
Be interesting to see how his appeal handles all this. I still have the feeling this is far from over, which ultimately for the sport is shitty. Maybe that spanish wonder lawyer can help him???
[/quote]
i think this has been raised elsewhere but i have read that in times of stress the test the body produces mimics artificial test more closely?
Could this be the case? Maybe i just have too much blind faith?
All I keep getting is people asking me about Landis, because I’m the ‘cyclist’ they know of. I’m sick of it, and can’t wait for American cyclists to return to obsurity.
Lance, Landis, blah blah I don’t care, leave me alone. LOL.
I love biking, but loose interest in racing every year. Pro cycling is so trashed in drugs.
Yeah saw that. I am just so done with this Landis stuff. Even if he does ever proof that the results could possibly be explained somehow, who is going to take that serious?
And if he has the hip surgey, will he ever compete at that level afterwards to begin with?
I forgot all about Tyler Hamilton two year ban after getting caught for EPO in the Vuelta.
Have you kept up with Lemond’s reaction? Those guys really dont like each other, do they?
A
[quote]trailrash wrote:
Here is the latest Landis interview. Interesting stuff.
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/sports/2006/08/07/sots.landis.speaks.out.cnn&wm=10[/quote]
He probably used the T-patches as part of his regular regime. He would take the patch off after a few hours and soon enough for the levels to clear for the next days test.
The day before he tested positive he fell asleep with the patch on and by the time he got it off, it was too late to pass the test. That simple.
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Yeah saw that. I am just so done with this Landis stuff. Even if he does ever proof that the results could possibly be explained somehow, who is going to take that serious?
And if he has the hip surgey, will he ever compete at that level afterwards to begin with?
I forgot all about Tyler Hamilton two year ban after getting caught for EPO in the Vuelta.
Have you kept up with Lemond’s reaction? Those guys really dont like each other, do they?
A
trailrash wrote:
Here is the latest Landis interview. Interesting stuff.
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/sports/2006/08/07/sots.landis.speaks.out.cnn&wm=10
[/quote]
Lemond doesnt really like any American who has one the Tour after him. I used to really like him, now I think he is a complete joke.
Yeah, wtf is up with that? I have seen some of the Interviews. I used to have mad respect for that guy.
[quote]trailrash wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Yeah saw that. I am just so done with this Landis stuff. Even if he does ever proof that the results could possibly be explained somehow, who is going to take that serious?
And if he has the hip surgey, will he ever compete at that level afterwards to begin with?
I forgot all about Tyler Hamilton two year ban after getting caught for EPO in the Vuelta.
Have you kept up with Lemond’s reaction? Those guys really dont like each other, do they?
A
trailrash wrote:
Here is the latest Landis interview. Interesting stuff.
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/sports/2006/08/07/sots.landis.speaks.out.cnn&wm=10
Lemond doesnt really like any American who has one the Tour after him. I used to really like him, now I think he is a complete joke.
[/quote]
I apologize for my ingorance in advance but can you elaborate on that? Is it really that simple and it would not show up if used temporarily?
[quote]kellyc wrote:
He probably used the T-patches as part of his regular regime. He would take the patch off after a few hours and soon enough for the levels to clear for the next days test.
The day before he tested positive he fell asleep with the patch on and by the time he got it off, it was too late to pass the test. That simple.[/quote]
He is a user. Most of us would be lucky to get a 2:1 ratio with the best of Biotest’s supplements and a hot GF. Synthetic test? We all know where that comes from.
I used to think Lemond was the shit.
Now thats all that comes out of his mouth.
I’m no expert on steroids, but my understanding is that the creams and patches clear in just a few hours. Unlike injectables. That being the case a cheater might use them for part of the day to enhance recovery.
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I apologize for my ingorance in advance but can you elaborate on that? Is it really that simple and it would not show up if used temporarily?
kellyc wrote:
He probably used the T-patches as part of his regular regime. He would take the patch off after a few hours and soon enough for the levels to clear for the next days test.
The day before he tested positive he fell asleep with the patch on and by the time he got it off, it was too late to pass the test. That simple.
[/quote]
I think the reality of modern cycling is that they all use gear ,in one way or the other…does that detract from the monumental effort and intensity that they put out,day after day?Does it negate the monstrous training that they do to perform as they do? If one has juiced or doped in any way,then you know that while it does contribute,it doesnt elevate you to any sort of level without having done the hard,ball busting work.The drugs can never replace the work ethic or make a world class athlete.The sad fact is that they are just the reality of modern,ultra competitive world class sport.
Just my opinion,nothing more…
Ha! Agreed.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I used to think Lemond was the shit.
Now thats all that comes out of his mouth.[/quote]
Thats an interesting theory. If that was the case though, I would have thougth that he’d use something other than test.
[quote]kellyc wrote:
I’m no expert on steroids, but my understanding is that the creams and patches clear in just a few hours. Unlike injectables. That being the case a cheater might use them for part of the day to enhance recovery.
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I apologize for my ingorance in advance but can you elaborate on that? Is it really that simple and it would not show up if used temporarily?
kellyc wrote:
He probably used the T-patches as part of his regular regime. He would take the patch off after a few hours and soon enough for the levels to clear for the next days test.
The day before he tested positive he fell asleep with the patch on and by the time he got it off, it was too late to pass the test. That simple.
[/quote]
I think you make some very valid points. But in that case, they should legalize everything so they dont have to only punish those who get caught.
I think there is a general misconception as to what gear does for you. As a bodybuilder for example, sure you get an edge over the natural lifter but you cant just sit on your ass and expect to blow up. You still need to eat big and clean and train your ass off day in and day out.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
I think the reality of modern cycling is that they all use gear ,in one way or the other…does that detract from the monumental effort and intensity that they put out,day after day?Does it negate the monstrous training that they do to perform as they do? If one has juiced or doped in any way,then you know that while it does contribute,it doesnt elevate you to any sort of level without having done the hard,ball busting work.The drugs can never replace the work ethic or make a world class athlete.The sad fact is that they are just the reality of modern,ultra competitive world class sport.
Just my opinion,nothing more…[/quote]
What you or I think doesn’t matter. It’s what Landis was thinking that is important and it looks like he thought he could take some testosterone to boost recovery and still clear his system in time.
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Thats an interesting theory. If that was the case though, I would have thougth that he’d use something other than test.
kellyc wrote:
I’m no expert on steroids, but my understanding is that the creams and patches clear in just a few hours. Unlike injectables. That being the case a cheater might use them for part of the day to enhance recovery.
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I apologize for my ingorance in advance but can you elaborate on that? Is it really that simple and it would not show up if used temporarily?
kellyc wrote:
He probably used the T-patches as part of his regular regime. He would take the patch off after a few hours and soon enough for the levels to clear for the next days test.
The day before he tested positive he fell asleep with the patch on and by the time he got it off, it was too late to pass the test. That simple.
[/quote]
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I think you make some very valid points. But in that case, they should legalize everything so they dont have to only punish those who get caught.
I think there is a general misconception as to what gear does for you. As a bodybuilder for example, sure you get an edge over the natural lifter but you cant just sit on your ass and expect to blow up. You still need to eat big and clean and train your ass off day in and day out.
[/quote]
I’m fully in agreement with you on that point.I think it’s the only way to level the playing field and end the hypocrisy that these athletes have to endure…Lance Armstrong is a titan.Drugs,no drugs,I really dont care.All the attempts to belittle his achievements,from whatever quater, make me cringe.As for Landis,the testosterone patch or injection has not been invented that could revive him after the crack he suffered on stage 16.It was drive,willpower and determination that made him do what he did the next day.No EPO,amphetamines,or roid could have done it…
Anyone see Landis on Leno last night? What a joke.