[quote]humble wrote:
lmao at this thread.
A lot of masters, got baited by a lot of masturbators so who is the master and who is the baiter and who is the masturbator?
Sheesh, who gives a flying fuck about that poofta wasting his money on a trip to China to put a throw on an old man and act like He-man and who gives a flying fuck about Chinese playground park lineage grandmasters.
[/quote]
Ah… what?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]humble wrote:
lmao at this thread.
A lot of masters, got baited by a lot of masturbators so who is the master and who is the baiter and who is the masturbator?
Sheesh, who gives a flying fuck about that poofta wasting his money on a trip to China to put a throw on an old man and act like He-man and who gives a flying fuck about Chinese playground park lineage grandmasters.
[/quote]
Ah… what?[/quote]
IN THE INTEREST OF COMEDY
Hang on…I might be able to translate.
[quote]humble wrote:
lmao at this thread.
[/quote]
Humble IS amused at this thread.
I think humble is saying that both the “Master” in question and the “baiter/videographer” appear to be overly concerned with making themselves feel good / having fantasies and as such drawing a distinction between the “Master” and the “Student” who described the video as “One man’s quest to restore the honor of his kung fu style, becomes an intellectual Odyssey for the soul of Chinese Martial Arts.” is largely arbitrary.
Or, humble really likes making puns about wanking and likes to talk / think about other dude’s doing it. I doubt it is the latter case, but I am wrong a lot.
I think he is saying the “student” / OP’s friend comes off as having a rainbow in his pocket and that said friend of Dorothy’s costly adventures in China to toss about aging self anointed masters on stone walkways in a park are unimportant in his (humble’s) world view and should be in ours at well. I think he is also siding in the camp of function over lineage, but I may be reaching with that.
That or…humble snapped and all we are going to get from him here on out are posts about guys masturbating and wrestling with old asian men…which probably has its own website. Not that I am judging at all.
Regards,
Robert A
Just found this video and really thought it pertained to this thread.
Few of the moves he exhibits here would either work, or be allowed, in the ring. They’re excellent for general usage however.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Just found this video and really thought it pertained to this thread.
Few of the moves he exhibits here would either work, or be allowed, in the ring. They’re excellent for general usage however.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjc5ODA2Mzcy.html[/quote]
This is an awesome find!. Love McCann, Cistari, Fairbern and other combatives teachers.Ironically this is how karate and tma was probably originally intended. Lots of open hand strikes, palm heal,knees, and stomps. This kind of training is what I was talking about when I mentioned styles that train realisticly without sparring.
Again, take it from where it’s coming from(58 year old here), one can still defend themselves long after they begin to lose some of their sparring skills. In this style of combatives-and I believe karate was originally intended to be combatives, not the choreographed thing it has become- this was the intent.Using the body’s natural weapons and whatever is in the environment. The element of surprise, preemptive strikes, targeting, and going to an offensive mindset is what makes this style effective. Not intended for sparring or rules but for survival. Of course sparring is helpful and full contact fighters have a huge advantage in fights but most realistic self defense situations are not square off one on ones.
I posted a similar video months ago, Carl Cestari seminar, and people flamed it as stuff that wouldn’t work in a “real fight.” I think it can work if the person has trained correctly with the proper intent. Again, I’m all for mma and boxing. There’s nothing better if you can train it. A few years back my son asked me to help him “learn how to fight.” At the time I was a 4th dan in a tma. I was afraid that in tma he would lose interest before he was able to fight. I sent him to an mma school where he trained for over a year and that along with a lot of weighttraining and growth made him an good ring fighter. We still share ideas , train situational self defense, and work on self defense together.
Can’t wait to see the response McCann gets here.
humble wrote:
lmao at this thread.
A lot of masters, got baited by a lot of masturbators so who is the master and who is the baiter and who is the masturbator?
I was going for deadpan humor, since the content of the video is inherently absurd. What I hope you see in this, in addition to the good points brought up in this thread, is two people who could have had a shot at greatness or at least meaningful human interaction, but instead ended up looking like clowns because they let their egos get in the way. That’s most of us some of the time but it’s not me or Master Ma all of the time, at least I hope not 
Just to be clear. The pun was intentional. I came up with the funny title first and then, started looking for an opportunity to make something out of it. Please don’t take this too seriously! I was initially going to put a lot more masturbation jokes in this, but I eventually chickened out because I knew my mom would want to see it, and there’s also YouTube terms of service to think about. If you strip the humor away this is less about MA and more about the ways people hurt themselves by trying to look cool. It’s also supposed to be funny because it finds the crass antagonism of my generations internet culture alive and well in heart of an ancient and noble eastern tradition. So if you laughed, that’s good.
If you like this stuff consider sharing it with your friends or subscribing to our channel. I have a few more installments left in this series, and since the “director” is working for free it’s nice to be able to tell him that people actually like his stuff. More of which you can find here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/swiftboatvet4truth
[quote]Josann wrote:
This is an awesome find!. Love McCann, Cistari, Fairbern and other combatives teachers.Ironically this is how karate and tma was probably originally intended. Lots of open hand strikes, palm heal,knees, and stomps. This kind of training is what I was talking about when I mentioned styles that train realisticly without sparring.
Again, take it from where it’s coming from(58 year old here), one can still defend themselves long after they begin to lose some of their sparring skills. In this style of combatives-and I believe karate was originally intended to be combatives, not the choreographed thing it has become- this was the intent.Using the body’s natural weapons and whatever is in the environment. The element of surprise, preemptive strikes, targeting, and going to an offensive mindset is what makes this style effective. Not intended for sparring or rules but for survival. Of course sparring is helpful and full contact fighters have a huge advantage in fights but most realistic self defense situations are not square off one on ones.
I posted a similar video months ago, Carl Cestari seminar, and people flamed it as stuff that wouldn’t work in a “real fight.” I think it can work if the person has trained correctly with the proper intent. Again, I’m all for mma and boxing. There’s nothing better if you can train it. A few years back my son asked me to help him “learn how to fight.” At the time I was a 4th dan in a tma. I was afraid that in tma he would lose interest before he was able to fight. I sent him to an mma school where he trained for over a year and that along with a lot of weighttraining and growth made him an good ring fighter. We still share ideas , train situational self defense, and work on self defense together.
Can’t wait to see the response McCann gets here.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with everything you’ve posted here.
I think that in the beginning, Karate and most TMA’s were probably closer to this in both style and intent. The purpose wasn’t to represent the fucking style, it was to come home alive from whatever the threat was, be it on a battlefield or wherever.
I love in that video that McCann makes the point of not really caring where the blow lands, as long as it lands. He’s really using Patton’s axiom of “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.”
He and Cestari used a lot of the same moves and shit, so I respect Cestari as well, even though the people who seem to have inherited his mantle are a bunch of bitch con jobs.
But that’s the good thing about combatives - nobody owns it, there’s no real system, and it’s really just using whatever works.
I like McCann because he’s no bullshit, and also because he incorporates a lot of work with knives, folders, batons, and guns into it - remarkably, the weapons that we actually use in this century - instead of fucking nunchucks and rice grinders.
But it probably stems from the fact that he’s, you know, seen REAL WAR and has been in the shit, so he really can’t waste time teaching stuff that he doesn’t think will actually work.
For those not acquainted with McCann, this tale written by Tucker Carlson should show you his badassity, while at the same time illuminating the differences between those who’ve learned in the field, and those who proselytize unfounded ideas from the dojo floor:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0304-MAR_IRAQ?click=main_sr
A relatively new video from his also.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Josann wrote:
This is an awesome find!. Love McCann, Cistari, Fairbern and other combatives teachers.Ironically this is how karate and tma was probably originally intended. Lots of open hand strikes, palm heal,knees, and stomps. This kind of training is what I was talking about when I mentioned styles that train realisticly without sparring.
Again, take it from where it’s coming from(58 year old here), one can still defend themselves long after they begin to lose some of their sparring skills. In this style of combatives-and I believe karate was originally intended to be combatives, not the choreographed thing it has become- this was the intent.Using the body’s natural weapons and whatever is in the environment. The element of surprise, preemptive strikes, targeting, and going to an offensive mindset is what makes this style effective. Not intended for sparring or rules but for survival. Of course sparring is helpful and full contact fighters have a huge advantage in fights but most realistic self defense situations are not square off one on ones.
I posted a similar video months ago, Carl Cestari seminar, and people flamed it as stuff that wouldn’t work in a “real fight.” I think it can work if the person has trained correctly with the proper intent. Again, I’m all for mma and boxing. There’s nothing better if you can train it. A few years back my son asked me to help him “learn how to fight.” At the time I was a 4th dan in a tma. I was afraid that in tma he would lose interest before he was able to fight. I sent him to an mma school where he trained for over a year and that along with a lot of weighttraining and growth made him an good ring fighter. We still share ideas , train situational self defense, and work on self defense together.
Can’t wait to see the response McCann gets here.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with everything you’ve posted here.
I think that in the beginning, Karate and most TMA’s were probably closer to this in both style and intent. The purpose wasn’t to represent the fucking style, it was to come home alive from whatever the threat was, be it on a battlefield or wherever.
I love in that video that McCann makes the point of not really caring where the blow lands, as long as it lands. He’s really using Patton’s axiom of “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.”
He and Cestari used a lot of the same moves and shit, so I respect Cestari as well, even though the people who seem to have inherited his mantle are a bunch of bitch con jobs.
But that’s the good thing about combatives - nobody owns it, there’s no real system, and it’s really just using whatever works.
I like McCann because he’s no bullshit, and also because he incorporates a lot of work with knives, folders, batons, and guns into it - remarkably, the weapons that we actually use in this century - instead of fucking nunchucks and rice grinders.
But it probably stems from the fact that he’s, you know, seen REAL WAR and has been in the shit, so he really can’t waste time teaching stuff that he doesn’t think will actually work.
For those not acquainted with McCann, this tale written by Tucker Carlson should show you his badassity, while at the same time illuminating the differences between those who’ve learned in the field, and those who proselytize unfounded ideas from the dojo floor:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0304-MAR_IRAQ?click=main_sr
[/quote]
Fantistic posts.
I would also point out that “Gung Fu” / “Jujutsu” were a large part of the technique base the original combatives instructors used to develop their arts.
We should also keep in mind that in Imperial Japan the movement to spool up readiness for WWII caused the “state/school” adoption of Karate styles in specific and martial arts in general to focus on military discipline and order. A lot of what we call “traditional” in the United States with regard to TMA (emphasis on lining up, bowing, verbal responses, etc.) is less than 100 years old.
In China the Boxer Rebellion at the end of the 19th century and Mao’s actions effectively killed off, drove away, and then prohibited actual “martial” martial arts. Wushu was considered more of a demo / performance art.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
A relatively new video from his also.
I always love his techniques. Not “new”, but very good.
The mechanism he is talking about isn’t really at play though.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0304-MAR_IRAQ?click=main_sr
[/quote]
That is a GREAT fucking article. That’s got to be one of the best articles I’ve read in a while, both in terms of the writing style and the actual content. Makes you think.
The last few paragraphs tell you what it is like to REALLY need to make decisions on defense. You have to be prepared. You have to decide ahead of time as Kelly put it, and you have to be willing to assess critically and put limits on YOURSELF too. In this case there were guns and a crowd but in the street downtown it might just be fists. Or bats. Or something.
Wow. I’m favoriting that.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Josann wrote:
This is an awesome find!. Love McCann, Cistari, Fairbern and other combatives teachers.Ironically this is how karate and tma was probably originally intended. Lots of open hand strikes, palm heal,knees, and stomps. This kind of training is what I was talking about when I mentioned styles that train realisticly without sparring.
Again, take it from where it’s coming from(58 year old here), one can still defend themselves long after they begin to lose some of their sparring skills. In this style of combatives-and I believe karate was originally intended to be combatives, not the choreographed thing it has become- this was the intent.Using the body’s natural weapons and whatever is in the environment. The element of surprise, preemptive strikes, targeting, and going to an offensive mindset is what makes this style effective. Not intended for sparring or rules but for survival. Of course sparring is helpful and full contact fighters have a huge advantage in fights but most realistic self defense situations are not square off one on ones.
I posted a similar video months ago, Carl Cestari seminar, and people flamed it as stuff that wouldn’t work in a “real fight.” I think it can work if the person has trained correctly with the proper intent. Again, I’m all for mma and boxing. There’s nothing better if you can train it. A few years back my son asked me to help him “learn how to fight.” At the time I was a 4th dan in a tma. I was afraid that in tma he would lose interest before he was able to fight. I sent him to an mma school where he trained for over a year and that along with a lot of weighttraining and growth made him an good ring fighter. We still share ideas , train situational self defense, and work on self defense together.
Can’t wait to see the response McCann gets here.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with everything you’ve posted here.
I think that in the beginning, Karate and most TMA’s were probably closer to this in both style and intent. The purpose wasn’t to represent the fucking style, it was to come home alive from whatever the threat was, be it on a battlefield or wherever.
I love in that video that McCann makes the point of not really caring where the blow lands, as long as it lands. He’s really using Patton’s axiom of “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.”
He and Cestari used a lot of the same moves and shit, so I respect Cestari as well, even though the people who seem to have inherited his mantle are a bunch of bitch con jobs.
But that’s the good thing about combatives - nobody owns it, there’s no real system, and it’s really just using whatever works.
I like McCann because he’s no bullshit, and also because he incorporates a lot of work with knives, folders, batons, and guns into it - remarkably, the weapons that we actually use in this century - instead of fucking nunchucks and rice grinders.
But it probably stems from the fact that he’s, you know, seen REAL WAR and has been in the shit, so he really can’t waste time teaching stuff that he doesn’t think will actually work.
For those not acquainted with McCann, this tale written by Tucker Carlson should show you his badassity, while at the same time illuminating the differences between those who’ve learned in the field, and those who proselytize unfounded ideas from the dojo floor:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0304-MAR_IRAQ?click=main_sr
[/quote]
Fantistic posts.
I would also point out that “Gung Fu” / “Jujutsu” were a large part of the technique base the original combatives instructors used to develop their arts.
We should also keep in mind that in Imperial Japan the movement to spool up readiness for WWII caused the “state/school” adoption of Karate styles in specific and martial arts in general to focus on military discipline and order. A lot of what we call “traditional” in the United States with regard to TMA (emphasis on lining up, bowing, verbal responses, etc.) is less than 100 years old.
In China the Boxer Rebellion at the end of the 19th century and Mao’s actions effectively killed off, drove away, and then prohibited actual “martial” martial arts. Wushu was considered more of a demo / performance art.
Regards,
Robert A
[/quote]
Karate began to be diluted when Funakoshi(shotokan founder) tailored it for school children in Japanese PE classes. In the US lining up, working with groups of students, standardizing curriculum and so on further weakened the martial aspect of it.Traditionally, karate was taught in very small groups 5-6 or less and the emphasis was on practicality. That went out the window gradually, especially in the US. Kids in karate after the 1990’s pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the “martial” aspect of it. Too bad.It’s up to those of us who practice to make it realistic by training with those that don’t buy into the myths, to test ourselves as McCann clearly does in his training. It can be exercise, it can be art, but we shouldn’t forget it is the “martial” that makes what we do different. Some tma schools have gone so politically correct that it’s sickening.
Really like the line from Irish about the weapons training i.e.knives and guns as opposed to nunchuks and rice grinders. Learning to use what you have available is critical whether it be keys, a knife, or even a walking cane. I think McCann really gets it. And I see much of what he does as consistent with traditional styles I have studied (uechi ryu and samll circle jujitsu.)
Don’t flame me, just my take on martial arts. I wish the available arts when I started out were brazilian jiu jitsu and MMA. They weren’t. So I try to find where my tma studies can have practical application. Guys like McCann and Cestari are where I am taking my tma now.
When I turn 75 or so I think I’ll learn some traditional weapons so I can use a walking cane if needed!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
A relatively new video from his also.
Good video, interestingly Tony Blauer’s SPEAR uses a very similar principle (and if done at full force against a fully committed “haymaker” punch) will have a very similar stunning effect.
Here is “Traditional” Martial Artist (Yoshitsune Jiu-Jitsu, Sensei DePasquale Sr. was one of the Pioneers of Jiu-Jitsu in the US) Michael DePasquale Jr. using the same “dead arm” concept for blocking a punch. I’ve personally had Sensei Depasquale Jr do this to me and let me tell you, it works. The harder you punch the worse it sucks LOL. Getting locked by him is a pretty eye opening experience as well.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I always love his techniques. Not “new”, but very good.
The mechanism he is talking about isn’t really at play though.
Regards,
Robert A
[/quote]
hahaha you know I had a feeling it wasn’t, but that’s one of those things where as long as it works I don’t care how it does so
After Ma got thrown and threw a subsequent temper tantrum, I was disillusioned.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0304-MAR_IRAQ?click=main_sr
[/quote]
That is a GREAT fucking article. That’s got to be one of the best articles I’ve read in a while, both in terms of the writing style and the actual content. Makes you think.
The last few paragraphs tell you what it is like to REALLY need to make decisions on defense. You have to be prepared. You have to decide ahead of time as Kelly put it, and you have to be willing to assess critically and put limits on YOURSELF too. In this case there were guns and a crowd but in the street downtown it might just be fists. Or bats. Or something.
Wow. I’m favoriting that.[/quote]
It really is spectacular, I agree, and I’m a full fledged Democrat, so for me to say something by Tucker Carlson is good means something.
Regardless, like you said - it really puts it all into perspective. The fear that Carlson feels in that article, especially during the firefights, is real, and he conveys it well, as well as the feelings that he gets when he realizes that nobody - not the Iraqi police, or the army, or whomever - is going to come to their rescue.
And at the end, when that bow-tie wearing homo actually has to take aim at someone in a foreign country with an AK-47, you know he means it, and you can feel that he’s really uncomfortable with the whole situation.
In a situation like some of us so often face, it really gives the feeling that you get when you’re faced with something in the street - the racing heart, the shaking hands, etc. You just can’t replicate that in the ring, no matter how hard you try.
In short, yes, I love that article too. It’s superb.
My favorite part of the article was this:
"I was riding in one of the SUVs, a mud-splattered Nissan, in the backseat behind Kelly and Bill Frost, another former marine. Kelly and I were talking about the approaching pickup when suddenly it appeared right next to us.
There were three young Arab men inside. They were inches away from our driver’s-side window, maintaining our speed and giving us hard looks. Kelly’s voice never changed its tone. He raised his MP5 off his lap, extended it across Bill’s chest, and pointed the muzzle at the men in the pickup. They hit the brakes hard, disappearing into our rearview mirror. Bill never took his eyes off the road. Kelly kept up the conversation as though nothing had happened."
That is the definition of a straight up, real-time, badass.
The difference between that and what many of us are told in the dojo is HUGE.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
My favorite part of the article was this:
"I was riding in one of the SUVs, a mud-splattered Nissan, in the backseat behind Kelly and Bill Frost, another former marine. Kelly and I were talking about the approaching pickup when suddenly it appeared right next to us.
There were three young Arab men inside. They were inches away from our driver’s-side window, maintaining our speed and giving us hard looks. Kelly’s voice never changed its tone. He raised his MP5 off his lap, extended it across Bill’s chest, and pointed the muzzle at the men in the pickup. They hit the brakes hard, disappearing into our rearview mirror. Bill never took his eyes off the road. Kelly kept up the conversation as though nothing had happened."
That is the definition of a straight up, real-time, badass.
The difference between that and what many of us are told in the dojo is HUGE.[/quote]
My buddy Eric, who is in the last two segments of “master baiters” served in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is related to why one of his eyes is artificial and half of skull is made of high strength plastic. Back in his two eyed days he was occasionally assigned to sniping duty despite his specialty being “machine gunner.” From the photos he showed me this basically involved spending long hours in a “nest” looking out a window and waiting for instructions to shoot people in the head. The most striking thing about it from my perspective at least is that the “nest” was was basically just a folding table with a laptop and some magazines on it setup against a high-rise window, almost exactly like the place I’m sitting at now, except I’m not locked in a deadly game of cat and mouse with the lives of my best friends on the line.
If I’d been through that I doubt I’d be able to pass the psychological evaluation to get hired by wall-mart. Eric’s just a normal laid back guy enjoying life in America, even despite the crippling headaches his injury sometimes causes him. Going to war and not losing your soul to it is the height of bad-ass in my opinion, but you can’t teach that in a Dojo or maybe even at all.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Here is “Traditional” Martial Artist (Yoshitsune Jiu-Jitsu, Sensei DePasquale Sr. was one of the Pioneers of Jiu-Jitsu in the US) Michael DePasquale Jr. using the same “dead arm” concept for blocking a punch. I’ve personally had Sensei Depasquale Jr do this to me and let me tell you, it works. The harder you punch the worse it sucks LOL. Getting locked by him is a pretty eye opening experience as well.
Very similar to small circle jujitsu. I think this stuff is the real deal and this picks up where karate left off after it became watered down. Karate is meant to be practiced up close and it’s not usually trained that way.Police and law enforcement use similar tactics so I got to think it’s effective and proven. Any practitioner of tma should at least have some cross training in something like this and practice these kind of techniques on a regular basis to keep them fresh.
Some stuff that I think is realistic tma and adapatble for all karate practitioners.
[quote]Josann wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Here is “Traditional” Martial Artist (Yoshitsune Jiu-Jitsu, Sensei DePasquale Sr. was one of the Pioneers of Jiu-Jitsu in the US) Michael DePasquale Jr. using the same “dead arm” concept for blocking a punch. I’ve personally had Sensei Depasquale Jr do this to me and let me tell you, it works. The harder you punch the worse it sucks LOL. Getting locked by him is a pretty eye opening experience as well.
Very similar to small circle jujitsu. I think this stuff is the real deal and this picks up where karate left off after it became watered down. Karate is meant to be practiced up close and it’s not usually trained that way.Police and law enforcement use similar tactics so I got to think it’s effective and proven. Any practitioner of tma should at least have some cross training in something like this and practice these kind of techniques on a regular basis to keep them fresh.
Some stuff that I think is realistic tma and adapatble for all karate practitioners.[/quote]
Shihan Jay and Shihan Depasquale Sr. were friends and shared knowledge between each other. Them and Shihan Lysak Sr. were basically the pioneers/fathers of Jiu-Jitsu here in the States. Depasquale was basically the main Jiu-Jitsu connection on the east coast, while Shihan Jay was on the west coast. One of the LSM black belts and other iCAT coaches, Rick Alford, is a 4th degree under Shihan Jay. Let me tell you, those finger locks and wrist locks that Small Circle likes so much are freakin painful and effective too.
