Roybot: totally understand. From what I saw in the video and was told is that he laid there for a while. THere is also a rumor that they didnt have a proper medical team on staff. This falls down onto the shoulders of the comp. No one else. People can try and blame crossfit hq as an organization and say its “crossfits fault” but I dont think that is true.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Roybot: totally understand. From what I saw in the video and was told is that he laid there for a while. THere is also a rumor that they didnt have a proper medical team on staff. This falls down onto the shoulders of the comp. No one else. People can try and blame crossfit hq as an organization and say its “crossfits fault” but I dont think that is true. [/quote]
It comes directly from Glassman…he has always preached that “warrior, if you are afraid of breaking your neck we don’t want you” attitude…echoed by Castro and Saran.
How can you not lay the groundwork for this at their feet?
poor guy. I couldn’t imagine not being able to do what I love to do. That’s play golf, bone, and lift weights.
Doubleduce: totally agree, but his little legs could only move so fast.
Utah: Totally and Im not saying youre wrong. Definitely I think this was something fully constructed during Mark Twights time with CF. As close as I am with glassman and a lot of other people from HQ Ive always felt this is mostly just getting out of hand.
At the local level something needs to be done. I did a competition not too long ago and suffered two injuries, mainly overuse. But at that particular event, which was a team event, not one of the 42 teams finished the first 2 wods…I told the main “programmer” who I know who was walking around hosting the event “are we going to do a workout that anyone can finish?” What I see at the local level is complete and horrible bullshit.
Since Ive hosted regionals and worked the Games I see a completely different structure, attitude and approach. At our regionals we had an event that involved DB snatches and two girls right out of the gates dislocated their shoulders. Medical jumped in right away and took care of it because we had a very professional medical team.
What we found out later is for BOTH girls, they have had dislocates in the past. HQ also has a shit load of protocols in place to take care of the athlete immediately. THe only other thing that regional was a girl passed out from heat exhaustion during a pull up.
THese local events hardly have band-aids. ALso their programming is fucking stupid. BUT dont get me wrong, Im not saying games programming is not. But some stuff if you talk to them at or after the games is pretty convincing. HQ also tests the workouts completely before the events.
I think just blaming HQ for something a local thing did with an athlete who potentially had a preexisting injury isnt exactly fair.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I think just blaming HQ for something a local thing did with an athlete who potentially had a preexisting injury isnt exactly fair. [/quote]
Shouldn’t HQ be doing something to make sure this doesn’t happen at the local level? That is not really a good job of protecting your brand if you step back and say well it wasn’t an event put on by HQ. It still carries the crossfit name.
Its like if a kid lowers his head in pop warner and gets severely injured from it the NFL will catch some flack. Was it the NFL’s fault that it happened? No of course not. But the NFL is the top brand for football and they started the whole culture of being hard hitting thugs. HQ started the whole warrior persona for crossfit. Shouldn’t they step in and re-educate their trainers to make sure poor programming and shitty events aren’t happening.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Utah: Totally and Im not saying youre wrong. Definitely I think this was something fully constructed during Mark Twights time with CF. As close as I am with glassman and a lot of other people from HQ Ive always felt this is mostly just getting out of hand.
At the local level something needs to be done. I did a competition not too long ago and suffered two injuries, mainly overuse. But at that particular event, which was a team event, not one of the 42 teams finished the first 2 wods…I told the main “programmer” who I know who was walking around hosting the event “are we going to do a workout that anyone can finish?” What I see at the local level is complete and horrible bullshit.
Since Ive hosted regionals and worked the Games I see a completely different structure, attitude and approach. At our regionals we had an event that involved DB snatches and two girls right out of the gates dislocated their shoulders. Medical jumped in right away and took care of it because we had a very professional medical team.
What we found out later is for BOTH girls, they have had dislocates in the past. HQ also has a shit load of protocols in place to take care of the athlete immediately. THe only other thing that regional was a girl passed out from heat exhaustion during a pull up.
THese local events hardly have band-aids. ALso their programming is fucking stupid. BUT dont get me wrong, Im not saying games programming is not. But some stuff if you talk to them at or after the games is pretty convincing. HQ also tests the workouts completely before the events.
I think just blaming HQ for something a local thing did with an athlete who potentially had a preexisting injury isnt exactly fair. [/quote]
I see your point, but the ONLY reason that HQ is tightening up their rules is because of the Bok and T.V. money…and it’s added liability When the Games were airhumping themselves to death in Castro’s barn they could have given a shit less.
And the interview with Glassman where he said he no longer trains because he is “writing workouts that test the very limits of human life”(translation - I’m gonna drink all day and sleep with crazy women cough Lisa Lugo cough).
I mean when the Rabbi speaks the flock follows.
And the O.C. throwdown is not some weekend challenge in your neighborhood box, it is one of the biggest non-games events of the year…no medical personnel on site? What a joke.
Grizzly: Honestly amigo, I think a policing should take place, so I agree with you there, but I think overall CFHQ would disagree. And here in lies the technicality: it wasnt a crossfit event, its called the OC Throwdown because CFHQ could immediately file you a cease and desist. Why? Because they are not in charge and do not assume liability. I can see pop warner as a good example, but these comps arent pop warner, they are a bunch of dudes getting together for a game of touch at the park.
I did actually run a local comp and I will never do it again. When I ran my own I programmed for good workouts that would produce an effect over the span of the wod and day. Nothing that would cripple. We started heavy-ish and ended on body weight movements. I wanted to give attendees and good, challenging workout, not create something no one can do. In a lot of these local comps, thats what is happening. I think the local “box offs” are a complete waste of time. The Open, Regionals and Games are more than enough to test an individual in a year.
Because it happened at a CF box we blame CF for the overall result. When working at a gym I watched a dude die on a treadmill, Ive seen some horrible shit in gym and the internet is full of videos of the most craziest shit happening possible. There isnt specifically anyone blamed or at fault. But when this happens, it some how comes down to it be Glassmans fault. (At a certain extent I wont necessarily disagree). But thats like Ford being in charge of drunk drivers. Remember most people die from bench pressing. I was going to post an article of a dude who some fucking how paralyzed himself on a leg press machine at Golds. He sued golds for 18+ million.
THis is no excuse: BUt it appears that before standing up Kevin is injuried. The bar falling on top of him was a result of the prior. If he had a preexisiting condition thats on him. EVen though our athletes said “its way too much volume (and I do agree)” I think it actually comes down to Kevin, unfortunately, in an “accident.”
And trust me, I wanted nothing more than to blame OC throwdown and shut down local comps. I believe they should be stopped. Our gym is seriously considering never entering one but its just talks right now. I think OC should pay for Kevins rehab, Im glad CFHQ is paying, its an ugly and unfortunate situation but Im unsure regarding methods of its prevention.
Sometimes I just don’t understand the mentality…
Read Couch Winchester’s quote here:
“We will not stop snatching. We will not stop CrossFitting. We will not stop doing what we do. It makes us better human beings. Nothing in life comes without risk. For every action there is a consequence. We might die in a CrossFit workout â?? but we also might die in a car wreck on the way to work. I would rather die doing what I love.”
from 200101 | coachwinchester … /14-01-14/
“WE MIGHT DIE IN A CROSSFIT WORKOUT”
hardcore bro…hardcore indeed.
Utah: Agreed man, over and over I will definitely side with the things you said. Its micro managing and no one wants to do that honestly.
Lisa isnt with Greg btw but thats hilarious you said that because I know everyone involved and its true. She just ended up in the news for DV against her daughter.
As far as I know the HQ is staying all quiet and I think they should. IF its a large local event its just that, local. And should be blamed locally (IMO). I know some main people from HQ were at the event, including Castro who went to the hospital with Kevin.
Im not shifting cause but like Ive said Kevin may have had a previous problem that expelled itself during that one moment and was followed by an unfortunate series of events. Fails like that have happened at the pro level but not with this outcome.
I personally dont want Oly lifting to take blame or crossfit. People love to get injured now and cry to their doctors “well i was crossfitting and my back blew out!” No motherfucker, you sit at a desk all day and are tighter than frog pussy and Ive warned you for fucking months to stretch and seek treatment and you refused, I modified everything in the world and you always appeared to move within range in front of me but AFTER you left the gym you sneezed and threw out your back. But I see your point, its Frans fault." This shit happens all the time. MOstly all of my injuries are un-gym related. Most people dont take that into consideration; the tightness was there, waiting, and it was only going to be a matter of time until SOMETHING happened. Unless its blunt force trama, for kevin, it was both…
and I agree again with you and I fully believe that mentality developed when Twight broke away from CF and Glassman had to up the stakes and start saying shit. Problem is Twight is more poetic about it. Glassman is straight forward. Ive seen people rowing during GYm JOnes Tail Pipe wod and Marks yelling “Suffer!! Suffer!!” THats not really coaching. Its encouraging but what does that do. Its all military style encouragement but it works.
AS a coach, I stopped doing “death wods” and its mentality a long time ago. My program and training and box is no longer with that. THough we all claimed it. Why? It sure as fuck got attention didnt it? And there is no such thing as bad press right? Look at how many people talk, argue, debate, critique over one dudes comments walking around with a limp starting a self employed revolution. PRetty nuts.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Lisa isnt with Greg btw but thats hilarious you said that because I know everyone involved and its true. She just ended up in the news for DV against her daughter.
[/quote]
Oh I know bro, the crossfit community is small.
Glassman, I’m sure had moved on to the latest and greatest.
It’s like a soap opera “How Prescott Turns”
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Look at how many people talk, argue, debate, critique over one dudes comments walking around with a limp starting a self employed revolution. PRetty nuts.[/quote]
The dude is my hero.
Plenty of Booze - Check
Ample supply of hot, fitness worshipers - Check
Continuous stream of affiliate money - Check
The BOK - Check
Army of Sycophants - Check
Endorsement contracts with Bombay and Jose’Cuervo - CHECK
The Russells on hand to beat down any internet challenges with DAT AD HOM - Check
He is living the dream.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Roybot: totally understand. From what I saw in the video and was told is that he laid there for a while. THere is also a rumor that they didnt have a proper medical team on staff. This falls down onto the shoulders of the comp. No one else. People can try and blame crossfit hq as an organization and say its “crossfits fault” but I dont think that is true. [/quote]
Sure - they aren’t going to move him with a suspected spinal injury. I can’t speculate on the response time of medical staff.
Ultimately though, it is a franchise and it’s not on Glassman to oversee that aspect of it (unfortunately).
Eventually Mr. Ogar may tell us what he thought happened.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
and I agree again with you and I fully believe that mentality developed when Twight broke away from CF and Glassman had to up the stakes and start saying shit. Problem is Twight is more poetic about it. Glassman is straight forward. Ive seen people rowing during GYm JOnes Tail Pipe wod and Marks yelling “Suffer!! Suffer!!” THats not really coaching. Its encouraging but what does that do. Its all military style encouragement but it works.
[/quote]
Twight’s approach to training psychology is meticulous. The in-training motivation doesn’t properly reflect that. Glassman is just recklessly fucking gung-ho.
A fairly interesting perspective. Agree or disagree if you’d like, but I found it well thought out.
The Conversation That Has To Be Had About Crossfit | Deadlift Dungeon e-conversation-that-has-to-be-had-about-crossfit/
S
That is a good link. I can’t say I’m surprised by any of this.
I dislocated my L1&L2 coming out of the bottom during a speed squat session and it was like being struck by lightning. I was very fortunate that there was medical attention immediately available and no long term nerve damage.
This kid has a world of hurt coming his way. Here’s to hoping he can get through it with the best possible outcome.
After watching the video tonight of Kevin Ogar getting injured… It looks like there is a possibility his spine was compromised physiologically. For instance, Kevin Ware’s tibia snapped while landing from a shot block in a basketball game. Not a big deal, but the true cause was weak bone tissue from cysts. I wonder if anyone knows if Kevin Ogar had a previous back injury or had been dealing with back issues before the incident?
I hope we get to hear what he has to say about it soon. The weight didn’t look to heavy for him especially with the height the bar came up, and how easy it was for him to drop under. It was while he was on his way up he bailed as if the spine broke then, and not after getting hit or falling?
Im sick of everyone talking about CrossFit being so dangerous, but not talking about how dangerous it is to play football or other contact sports. You can’t compare general CrossFit enthusiasts who get injured to NFL players who get injured, so lets compare it to the 100’s of thousands of high school or little league football players in America.
These kids, and their parents, and families, and friends, have bought into our societies belief that football is the best thing ever. They play it, completely blow out their knee at 16, or fracture their Cervical spine, or smash their brain against their skull 100’s of times in a season and play anyway… and then have to live with the fact they sustained an injury that they probably could’ve gone their whole life without if they hadn’t played such a high risk sport.
Does anyone come rushing in on the forums saying “OMG a kid had a horrific neck injury from playing football those coaches should be burned and the whole sport of Football is STUPID and soccer should be number 1.” NO there isn’t anyone doing that, because America has bought in. We all bought the hell in.
What you didn’t do is buy into CrossFit and now you are all bashing the Sh** out of it when this argument needs to be had for MANY MANY things. The NFL Commissioner didn’t give two squirts about concussions and injuries of players until things started crashing down on him, but we all were still sucked in to his football league. Adding to the ever increasing insanely fat pockets of the NFL. At least pro’s assume the risk and get paid. These high school kids don’t get squat. NOTHING, most don’t get rides to schools, that’s just a dream for many.
This whole argument is so screwed i’m just venting I don’t even do CrossFit, but its all about perspective and people need to take a little more time to think about things before they shoot off. I’m a Licensed Athletic Trainer in NC and I see a lot of injuries, especially in wrestling. I had a kid about break his neck the other night from getting slammed. It aint cool to watch it happen, but give it a little while and the kid will be thrown right back on the mat, as if it didn’t happen or didn’t matter.