[quote]therajraj wrote:
I discussed crossfit with my Chiropractor.
He was telling me how his business basically doubled since crossfit became popular.
[/quote]
Well yeah…and did he tell you why? Because crossfit isn’t really made for beginner exercise enthusiasts like it says it is. It’s made for intermediate to high level athletes of some form.
If a person has no idea how to even squat properly and they think they’re just gonna walk into a crossfit gym and have all their probelms solved then they deserve those trips to the chiro. (they do not deserve to have happen what happened to this guy…no one does)
I know 2 crossfit trainers.
is a highly technical highly educated beast, who imo shouldn’t be a crossfit coach but should be a pro athlete trainer.
is a fucking moron that I had a hard enough time believing he passed highschool. He has no eduction in physical science or anything else other than he took that crossfit trainer course. [/quote]
I’m sure that’s part of it, but I would say any form of serious excercise isn’t beginner friendly.
I pulled my back pretty badly in the first 2 months of weightlifting because I had a slumped posture while doing Barbell rows.
His answer was programming related. You ran a 5K then immediately performed 30 snatches and now you’re surprised you’re injured???
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I discussed crossfit with my Chiropractor.
He was telling me how his business basically doubled since crossfit became popular.
[/quote]
Well yeah…and did he tell you why? Because crossfit isn’t really made for beginner exercise enthusiasts like it says it is. It’s made for intermediate to high level athletes of some form.
If a person has no idea how to even squat properly and they think they’re just gonna walk into a crossfit gym and have all their probelms solved then they deserve those trips to the chiro. (they do not deserve to have happen what happened to this guy…no one does)
I know 2 crossfit trainers.
is a highly technical highly educated beast, who imo shouldn’t be a crossfit coach but should be a pro athlete trainer.
is a fucking moron that I had a hard enough time believing he passed highschool. He has no eduction in physical science or anything else other than he took that crossfit trainer course. [/quote]
His answer was programming related. You ran a 5K then immediately performed 30 snatches and now you’re surprised you’re injured???[/quote]
I think we can agree that it is possible to design “workouts” that are inherently riskier than others, mostly due to a combination of fatigue and inexperience. Now the question becomes what level of “riskiness” is acceptable for what target group (average joe doing a wod, crossfit competitor, etc.). I don’t know enough about what the crossfit people do to make a judgement call.I think providing some precise examples could push the fundamental discussion forward…
[quote]gregron wrote:
There must be a different video of the event?
Because the video posted here in no way shows a bar bouncing off of the stacked plates and hitting him in the back. I’ve watched it at least 15 times… Am I the only one not seeing that?
I know the video is edited (the “glitch” part) so maybe they cut that bouncing part out so it doesn’t look bad on the gym? I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case but their has to be a better video that everyone keeps using as reference for this bounce scenario?
[/quote]
I couldn’t see the bar connect at first, either. If you watch the clip on full screen, highest def and reduced speed, the bar does make contact with his back. It hits him an instant before it disturbs the pile of blues.
I kind of agree honestly. As Kevin stands up you can see him just freeze and the bar drops, his legs don’t move (forward, backwards etc) And the bar lands on him. I do kind of think something either seized, cramped, pull or broke as he lifted and definitely could be due to a preexisting injury.
When I first watched I actually thought the mats under his feet slipped. I only say that because I have seen the video when it first came out and the original video shows a lifter hardly make the lift, then it pans over to the guy on the right and Kevin on the left. what you don’t see is the lifter on the left does actually slip on the mats during the first pull and lands on his ass with the bar landing on his lap. If you watch the video above you can see the lifter on the right sitting on the ground.
I will say this, for an “experienced lifter” his feet are very narrow but maybe that’s his stance. He obviously has done this moment and something obviously goes wrong.
BUT as a box owner, and CF trainer for 7 years the blame shift that this is not to competitions fault and is a freak accident is very untrue. This comp in particular was over programmed with WAY too much volume. Throwing that heavy a load and skill that late in the game after 2 days of fatigue Im honestly surprised they didn’t have more injuries. But they don’t “test” at the local comp level which can explain. Ive helped host regionals the past two years as well as worked the games and let me tell you HQ runs a different show. They actually hire very respectable people with long outstanding careers for EMT work, doctors, security etc. They have every board nailed down. On the local comp level, absolutely not.
I had a few athletes (some are actual Games winners) competing in the OC throwdown and they said “its a lot of volume, and Im getting crushed.” Just facebook most of the major top level athletes, they are all sick or severely fatigued right now. Over training can be a real thing in this aspect. For this guy though, something severely unfortunate happened and I don’t think it needed to happen to open our eyes, I don’t think it should have happened in the first place.
[quote]gregron wrote:
There must be a different video of the event?
Because the video posted here in no way shows a bar bouncing off of the stacked plates and hitting him in the back. I’ve watched it at least 15 times… Am I the only one not seeing that?
I know the video is edited (the “glitch” part) so maybe they cut that bouncing part out so it doesn’t look bad on the gym? I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case but their has to be a better video that everyone keeps using as reference for this bounce scenario?
[/quote]
I couldn’t see the bar connect at first, either. If you watch the clip on full screen, highest def and reduced speed, the bar does make contact with his back. It hits him an instant before it disturbs the pile of blues. [/quote]
The vid keeps freezing on my comp…but doesn’t it say it’s edited?
[quote]gregron wrote:
There must be a different video of the event?
Because the video posted here in no way shows a bar bouncing off of the stacked plates and hitting him in the back. I’ve watched it at least 15 times… Am I the only one not seeing that?
I know the video is edited (the “glitch” part) so maybe they cut that bouncing part out so it doesn’t look bad on the gym? I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case but their has to be a better video that everyone keeps using as reference for this bounce scenario?
[/quote]
I couldn’t see the bar connect at first, either. If you watch the clip on full screen, highest def and reduced speed, the bar does make contact with his back. It hits him an instant before it disturbs the pile of blues. [/quote]
The vid keeps freezing on my comp…but doesn’t it say it’s edited?
[/quote]
Yeah the poster said he edited out the “unnecessary aftermath”, which I took to mean people rushing to his aid and Ogar writhing in pain after the injury occurred. Don’t take my word for it. Watch it on full screen and play around with the settings. It’s a lot clearer.
Ideally there’d be a second vid filmed from the side.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I discussed crossfit with my Chiropractor.
He was telling me how his business basically doubled since crossfit became popular.
[/quote]
Well yeah…and did he tell you why? Because crossfit isn’t really made for beginner exercise enthusiasts like it says it is. It’s made for intermediate to high level athletes of some form.
If a person has no idea how to even squat properly and they think they’re just gonna walk into a crossfit gym and have all their probelms solved then they deserve those trips to the chiro. (they do not deserve to have happen what happened to this guy…no one does)
I know 2 crossfit trainers.
is a highly technical highly educated beast, who imo shouldn’t be a crossfit coach but should be a pro athlete trainer.
is a fucking moron that I had a hard enough time believing he passed highschool. He has no eduction in physical science or anything else other than he took that crossfit trainer course. [/quote]
His answer was programming related. You ran a 5K then immediately performed 30 snatches and now you’re surprised you’re injured???[/quote]
Yep, don’t forget to throw thrusters in a fatigued state and the holy kipping pullup into the mix.
I worked out in a crossfit/kettlebell gym for a month and saw this happen about 4 times…
91 years of modern competitive Olympic Weightlifting and to my knowledge no one has ever been paralyzed by a missed snatch.
7 years of CrossFit games and they produce the most catastrophic weightlifting-related accident ever seen.
Not an ordinary missed lift, but a missed lift under unsafe circumstances and unsafe conditions. Slippery mats or not, ricochet or not, this was a stupid thing to make athletes attempt. To separate this accident from the circumstances surrounding it would be foolish.
Some accidents really are unpreventable, but I don’t believe this was one of those accidents. A lot of very legitimate and intelligent strength coaches predicted an accident of this magnitude, but those warnings went unheeded, and this is the result.
Terrible tragedy for this great athlete, and I wish him all the best in his recovery. This is in no way a criticism of him, but of the nature of this particular competition.
You can still get hardcore and push the envelope without taking unnecessary risks.
This is a tragedy for Kevin, his family and friends. Since this has turned into the inevitable discussion about crossfit I’ll add my ¢.00002, I posted this in another thread -
“Crossfit” sucks, and the games and competent coaches/gyms prove it. To be good at crossfit or be good at programing for crossfit the key is to not do crossfit. What these guys do is called strength and conditioning with attention paid to the specific competitive demands of the sporting event. The whole thing about crossfit when it first came out was they claimed there training methods were going to dominate sports. This never happened and so the games were invented to display their “dominance”, but the games were quickly being won by those that practiced traditional strength and conditioning which influenced many gyms to change to non-retarded programing.
I get that it is primarily a marketing tool at this point, but I am ready for those who have seen how stupid it is to admit it to themselves and the world and stop referring to what they do as “crossfit”. If you’re doing a good job, you’re not doing crossfit.
As for the risk - No one gets hurt, or watches someone else get hurt and just says “Oh well, shit happens,” and goes back to doing exactly what they were doing. The smart thing to do is always examine whether a similar event could be avoided. From aviation to rock climbing, driving, weight training, parachuting, hunting, etc., “Shit happens” a lot less when smart precautions are taken.
Furyguy: about 10-13 deaths occur every year from weightlifting, most of those go to the bench press. Bench, statistically is more dangerous than a snatch. Crossfit has never technically killed anyone…yet…but traditional lifting has.
Anyone remember this classic: - YouTube
carrying a fridge and running…way before crossfit was invented. But kipping pull ups are stupid? (they are but I think you see the tit-for-tat)
Im not disagreeing this athlete was fatigued, he was, but if you read the article I linked above I agree with it looks like an injury occurs before the bar actually falls on him.
Waylon: actually yes, people are hurt every day and go back to doing the same things: football, driving, NASCAR, any sport for that matter…
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
No one rushes to his aid. I just shakes and screams for a while. [/quote]
That was just me explaining what I interpreted as “unnecessary aftermath”. It’s natural to assume that due to the nature of his injuries that Ogar would’ve received medical attention immediately after the incident. Are you saying that they just left him there?
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Furyguy: about 10-13 deaths occur every year from weightlifting, most of those go to the bench press. Bench, statistically is more dangerous than a snatch. Crossfit has never technically killed anyone…yet…but traditional lifting has.
Anyone remember this classic: - YouTube
carrying a fridge and running…way before crossfit was invented. But kipping pull ups are stupid? (they are but I think you see the tit-for-tat)
Im not disagreeing this athlete was fatigued, he was, but if you read the article I linked above I agree with it looks like an injury occurs before the bar actually falls on him.
Waylon: actually yes, people are hurt every day and go back to doing the same things: football, driving, NASCAR, any sport for that matter…[/quote]
I was originally going to say no one “smart,” but thought it might be seen as pointed towards some of the posters. (It wasn’t meant to be) I bet all of the “smart” people who return to those activities reflect on whether their actions, preperation or circumstances could be altered in a similar future event, even if no official change or strategy is adopted, to avoid further injury… that was the point.
Official things like the pre-flight check were adopted and adapted over time to increase safety, deciding to hold potatoes differently after cutting your finger or carrying a gun properly through the feild are less formal. There are different levels of change appropriate to different events but “smart” people don’t just say “Shit happens.”
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Furyguy: about 10-13 deaths occur every year from weightlifting, most of those go to the bench press. Bench, statistically is more dangerous than a snatch. Crossfit has never technically killed anyone…yet…but traditional lifting has.
Anyone remember this classic: - YouTube
carrying a fridge and running…way before crossfit was invented. But kipping pull ups are stupid? (they are but I think you see the tit-for-tat)
Im not disagreeing this athlete was fatigued, he was, but if you read the article I linked above I agree with it looks like an injury occurs before the bar actually falls on him.
Waylon: actually yes, people are hurt every day and go back to doing the same things: football, driving, NASCAR, any sport for that matter…[/quote]
Non-competitve lifting of weights, sure. Without all the rules and precautions that entails.
And franco wasn’t supposed to run with the fridge, non of the other competitors did.
And yes, there are entire commissions and government departments who do nothing but review and try to modify and prevent repeats of injuries from football, driving, nascar, and basically all other sports.
You can’t watch an NFL game or a Nascar race today and say they are doing the same thing they did even a few years ago.
Further, guys doing crossfit in gyms would be part of your weightlifting statistic. They even do bench presses.
[quote]Furyguy wrote:
91 years of modern competitive Olympic Weightlifting and to my knowledge no one has ever been paralyzed by a missed snatch.
7 years of CrossFit games and they produce the most catastrophic weightlifting-related accident ever seen.
Not an ordinary missed lift, but a missed lift under unsafe circumstances and unsafe conditions. Slippery mats or not, ricochet or not, this was a stupid thing to make athletes attempt. To separate this accident from the circumstances surrounding it would be foolish.
Some accidents really are unpreventable, but I don’t believe this was one of those accidents. A lot of very legitimate and intelligent strength coaches predicted an accident of this magnitude, but those warnings went unheeded, and this is the result.
Terrible tragedy for this great athlete, and I wish him all the best in his recovery. This is in no way a criticism of him, but of the nature of this particular competition.
You can still get hardcore and push the envelope without taking unnecessary risks.
[/quote]
Great post.
Will Crossfit competitions learn from this?..I doubt it.