Personally, I think cyp is a better way to go than sust. I’ve liked sust much, but that’s me. Also, I’m wondering what your reason for doing chest and back in the same day is. Your looking for maximum growth, back should really have its own day.
-M
CT’s OVT program called for Chest/Back on the same day I believe.
Mbaina…
Chest and Back - Antagonist BodyPart training is beneficial because when you pair opposite groups, when one side is being worked, the oter is relaxed by the body to levels beyond normal rests periods. Then when the turn of the opposite muscle group is up… it is able to have a stronger contraction, activating more fibres and lifting more weight, then this is true for the first muscle group too as well… after the second muscle has gone.
This is true for bi and tri, chest and Back… POSSIBLY delts and lats, and to an extent quads and hams… but only on the isolative movements obviously…
Add to this, the compact design of antagonistically paired programs, which gives the increased density - you have a very efficient workout indeed.
The ONLY reason i tend to steer clear from chest and back is because i find it ABSOLUTELY EXHAUSTING! i really use alot of energy concentrating on rows and presses… so when they are paired it is draining… but i do still do this split, 2-3 times a year at least.
JJ
I know what all the text books say, I’m a personal trainer with 13 years of experience. I’m certified by NASM, NSCA and AFAA. Through my experience with my clients as well as myself, with the exception of bi’s and tri’s, training antagonist muscle groups (especially, such large muscle groups as chest and back)in one session is not efficient for maximum hypertrophy in each group. Don’t get me wrong, it has its place. Once in a while I’ll throw in a chest/back workout to change things up, but not when I’m on cycle. When training chest and back in the same session, inevitably, something going to get the short end of the stick. IMPO, it is far more efficient training antagonist muscle groups on consecutive days or if in the same day, different session (am/pm).
-M
[quote]mbaina wrote:
I know what all the text books say, I’m a personal trainer with 13 years of experience. I’m certified by NASM, NSCA and AFAA. Through my experience with my clients as well as myself, with the exception of bi’s and tri’s, training antagonist muscle groups (especially, such large muscle groups as chest and back)in one session is not efficient for maximum hypertrophy in each group. Don’t get me wrong, it has its place. Once in a while I’ll throw in a chest/back workout to change things up, but not when I’m on cycle. When training chest and back in the same session, inevitably, something going to get the short end of the stick. IMPO, it is far more efficient training antagonist muscle groups on consecutive days or if in the same day, different session (am/pm).
-M[/quote]
Sorry - i did think is strange that you asked… but i wasnt going to judge!
LMAO!
OK… now we can talk to the right level… 
I tend to agree… it’s not that it cant produce maximum hypertrophy, i believe it is as good as any other pairing, (as you mentioned it is SUPPOSED to be better re: theory, but the second bodypart is always going to recieve less attention… they tend to be too big of bodyparts to pair in a normal HT split, where the volume is high and the intensity is too.
It does make for an enormous volume if maximum volume is taken on each muscle too… as again, they are major groups.
The only time i pair them is when i use a lower volume, and it works well… i do a 2 day split, with one day being Back, Chest and Biceps. With this, i do them in order, so i concentrate fully on back - THEN chest, then bi… i cannot do that to a satisfactory intensity when alternating exercises of back and chest.
Plus the volume may only go as high as 12:10:8-Back:Chest:Bi and often only 8:7:6. This gives plenty volume over a microcycle for each bodypart.
I apologise again Mbaina, if its any consellation, i did consider that i misread it! ;p
JJ
No need to apologize J! My temper is a bit short today. Hmmmm, maybe this shit IS kicking in!
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
LOL.
K guys, I will do every other day, but I’ll be doing .6CC, EOD
And that’s sick about the blood dude, jeez.
I’ll keep you guys updated.[/quote]
K
The fact you were pinning a bi-weekly Sust protocol screams at me; can you hear it too?
Hmm. I might separate back and chest given what mbaina has said. The key is to try different things.
K.
Severely Pissed off. Gear should be here tomorrow or wednesday.
Sorry for starting my log too far in advance, it seems…
Here is my revised training program…
BB Bench Press 5x5
BB Incline Bench Press 5x5
Heavy DB Flies 8 x 3
Lighter Cable Flies 12 x 3
Lat Pulldown 10x3
1 Arm Row 10x3
DeadLifts 5x5
Squat/Front Squat/Variation 5x5
Leg Extension 10x3
Straight Leg DeadLift 5x5
Hamstring Curl 10x3
Military Press 5x5
Side Lateral Raises 10x3
DB Reverse Fly 10x3
DB Shrugs 10x3
Preacher Curl 10x3
Hammer Curls 10x3
DB OVH Press 10x3
Cable Pushdown 10x3
Forearm Curl 12x3
Reverse Forearm Curl 12x3
Each body part is a different day.
[quote]saps wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
LOL.
K guys, I will do every other day, but I’ll be doing .6CC, EOD
And that’s sick about the blood dude, jeez.
I’ll keep you guys updated.
K
The fact you were pinning a bi-weekly Sust protocol screams at me; can you hear it too?[/quote]
i felt the need to repost this as i feel as though you didn’t read it the first time, and even if you did, you need to read it again. i havnt commented yet on this log but this kinda sums my thoughts up.
I don’t understand?
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
I don’t understand?[/quote]
Precisely. I could not have stated it better myself.
YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING
The point game and I are making here is you were planning to hit Sust twice a week. Your ignorance is preparing you for total failure. What would have happened had your gear arrived on time and you began this plan of yours?
A day or two ago you create a thread in the SatMA forum about the fact that you have ED at 19.
I don’t get why you are so blind to the truth.
In your own words you don’t understand. Clearly the context was different but the point remains the same.
Wake up and get smart. Please for your own sake.
AH.
I see what he meant.
BUT. When I was planning a Bi-weekly shot, that was NOT Sustanon… that was T500, which is only enanthate and cypionate.
[quote]saps wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
I don’t understand?
Precisely. I could not have stated it better myself.
YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING
The point game and I are making here is you were planning to hit Sust twice a week. Your ignorance is preparing you for total failure. What would have happened had your gear arrived on time and you began this plan of yours?
A day or two ago you create a thread in the SatMA forum about the fact that you have ED at 19.
I don’t get why you are so blind to the truth.
In your own words you don’t understand. Clearly the context was different but the point remains the same.
Wake up and get smart. Please for your own sake.[/quote]
Seconded.
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
There was a problem, my source is out of T500… so I’m doing sustanon250.
Anyway, I’ll be doing Monday/Thursday Shots of 1cc, 250 mg of Sus, for 10 weeks.
[/quote]
you say you didnt plan bi-weekly shots with the sust, maybe this way just a typo? its possible as im sure you were getting mixed up with all the changes
I definitely got mixed up.
I know better than to do bi weekly shots of sust. 
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
I definitely got mixed up.
I know better than to do bi weekly shots of sust. :)[/quote]
Really?
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
OK Guys,
Couple have you have PM’d me…
YES I AM STILL ALIVE, haha. The gear should be coming today or tomorrow.
There was a problem, my source is out of T500… so I’m doing sustanon250.
Of course, I find out after I ordered my sterile oil and extra vials to dilute T500…
Anyway, I’ll be doing Monday/Thursday Shots of 1cc, 250 mg of Sus, for 10 weeks.
I will probably edit my original post, if thats possible.
Since my last post, I have worked out 3 times, and I will post these workouts later when I’ve got time.
I just wanted to let everyone know I’m going to start today or tomorrow.
Practiced withrdrawing oil/injecting into a banana today… Those needles are thick 
[/quote]
Not as of June 12th you didn’t
I think everyone should stop being so hard…obviously it would have been a mistake to use sust bi weekly…HOWEVER, it didn’t happen and now hes educated on the fact that it would have been stupid. It doesn’t matter the reason it didn’t happen…point is it didn’t and now he knows. As far as I can tell…I don’t see how his lack of knowledge on sust is a reason for him not to do this cycle…because as far as I can tell…he pretty much has the basics down with just about everything else.
[quote]saps wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
I definitely got mixed up.
I know better than to do bi weekly shots of sust.
Really?
kayveeay wrote:
OK Guys,
Couple have you have PM’d me…
YES I AM STILL ALIVE, haha. The gear should be coming today or tomorrow.
There was a problem, my source is out of T500… so I’m doing sustanon250.
Of course, I find out after I ordered my sterile oil and extra vials to dilute T500…
Anyway, I’ll be doing Monday/Thursday Shots of 1cc, 250 mg of Sus, for 10 weeks.
I will probably edit my original post, if thats possible.
Since my last post, I have worked out 3 times, and I will post these workouts later when I’ve got time.
I just wanted to let everyone know I’m going to start today or tomorrow.
Practiced withrdrawing oil/injecting into a banana today… Those needles are thick
Not as of June 12th you didn’t[/quote]
That is the same quote game_over used.
I got mixed up on one post. I know better. My friend is halfway through his cycle of sust… i know how often to shoot.
yup i just shortened it to get to the point.
i figured id at least give the the benefit of the doubt. ive been mixed up before too when all the changing and what not has to happen. sucks i know. i wouldn’t people jumping all over me if i made a typo so im not about to do it to someone else. granted i still have some underlying opinions on yoru choice to cycle and experience, but we’ll find out in due time and i hope for the best i really do and if you ahve a second thought about anything PLEASE ask ask ask ask and oh ya ASK! questions are how we learn.