Kayveeay's Log **UPDATED** 12/27/09

Pharma
461

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Well back to needing advice…

If I’m going to throw tren in, which I’m slightly scared to do due to hard shutdown, progesterone sides, etc… will I need to have caber?

I have a lot of letro, clomid, and anastrozole. I’ve heard letro works on progesterone , is this true?

I have easy access to letro and can get it within 3-5 days and hate to spend $60 if I’m not going to need it.

What do you guys think? Are progesterone sides guaranteed from 300 mg tren/week?[/quote]

The sides are primarily from the indirect prolactin increase due to progesterone receptor agonism, which Cabergoline can help with. Nothing is guaranteed, some people are much more susceptable than others to the prolactin gyno/sexual dysfunction from Tren.

Letro does not work on progesterone, it’s an AI similar to Arimidex/Aromasin but much stronger.

The Caber will also help mitigate the strong shut down as prolactin is extremely suppressive.

Getting your estrogen low will not guarantee prevention of gyno but it does help. I’ve seen enough guys get gyno on Tren while their estrogen was in the toilet to know it’s very real. Upon use of Cabergoline their gyno subsided.

I don’t care what anyone says, Tren is an agonist at the progesterone receptor and increases prolactin. You’d have to have your head in the sand the last 5 years to not acknowledge this fact. The research and especially anecdotal evidence is overwhelming.

462

Letrozole is some powerful stuff but last cycle, for me, it did nothing for progesterone (prolactin???). I will never use tren without caber on hand.

Gyno growth increased and a militant, immediate increase in my letrozole dosage did shit to stop it. I know the letrozole was good, too, because my libido took a nosedive immediately (as it always does when the letro goes too high) and I still don’t feel 100% recovered.

Anybody who says a strong AI is enough to stop progesterone/prolactin induced gyno gets my jeers.

463

[quote]Dopa wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
Well back to needing advice…

If I’m going to throw tren in, which I’m slightly scared to do due to hard shutdown, progesterone sides, etc… will I need to have caber?

I have a lot of letro, clomid, and anastrozole. I’ve heard letro works on progesterone , is this true?

I have easy access to letro and can get it within 3-5 days and hate to spend $60 if I’m not going to need it.

What do you guys think? Are progesterone sides guaranteed from 300 mg tren/week?

The sides are primarily from the indirect prolactin increase due to progesterone receptor agonism, which Cabergoline can help with. Nothing is guaranteed, some people are much more susceptable than others to the prolactin gyno/sexual dysfunction from Tren.

Letro does not work on progesterone, it’s an AI similar to Arimidex/Aromasin but much stronger.

The Caber will also help mitigate the strong shut down as prolactin is extremely suppressive.

Getting your estrogen low will not guarantee prevention of gyno but it does help. I’ve seen enough guys get gyno on Tren while their estrogen was in the toilet to know it’s very real. Upon use of Cabergoline their gyno subsided.

I don’t care what anyone says, Tren is an agonist at the progesterone receptor and increases prolactin. You’d have to have your head in the sand the last 5 years to not acknowledge this fact. The research and especially anecdotal evidence is overwhelming.[/quote]

Your post came up after I posted mine, Dopa, and it is almost prophetic in its pertinence. Thank you, seriously, for this. It is the most succinct explanation of a phenomenon that has eluded me (and this board, I think) for a long time now.

464

You made good progress since last year. Definitely looks jacked. Looks like the steroied addiction has kicked in. What happend to “195 6-7%” goal. hehe

IMO you should have kept your second cycle the same as before, i.e 500mg/week.
You are running 1gram + on your second cycle, which is not needed. From my personal experience, I started AAS @ 26 yo, and my pre-cycle stats 6’1, 225lbs, and strength level is higher than what you are right now. After my first cycle, I felt I broke a plateu, and grew quite well after that (off AAS). So I stayed off AAS for a long time.

I know the point of doing AAS is to accelerate your gains, so you don’t have to wait for years to acheive your goal. But just take it easy. You are still young. I think you can probably run the basic 500mg test cycles ONCE per year, (or two short 4-6 weeks cycles per year) until you are 25 yo or something. By then you will be 230lbs, easily. Then you can evaluate your goals again, and go from there.

At the current rate, I’d hate to think what you will be running next year, for your 4th cycle
1000mg of test + 500mg tren + 800mg EQ + 50mg + orals per day?!
That will be what I call “abuse” for a 20yo.
Just take it easy, you won’t regret it.

Also I don’t feel comfortable adding in tren E after 7 weeks in!
It’s a long ester. The prolactin can be quite supressive, and hinders PCT recovery. Are you running low dose HCG during your cycle? I am inclined to save the tren E for next time. Run it from the start,for 6-8 weeks, and use test for 2 more weeks.

465

[quote]mephistopheles wrote:
You made good progress since last year. Definitely looks jacked. Looks like the steroied addiction has kicked in. What happend to “195 6-7%” goal. hehe

IMO you should have kept your second cycle the same as before, i.e 500mg/week.
You are running 1gram + on your second cycle, which is not needed. From my personal experience, I started AAS @ 26 yo, and my pre-cycle stats 6’1, 225lbs, and strength level is higher than what you are right now. After my first cycle, I felt I broke a plateu, and grew quite well after that (off AAS). So I stayed off AAS for a long time.

I know the point of doing AAS is to accelerate your gains, so you don’t have to wait for years to acheive your goal. But just take it easy. You are still young. I think you can probably run the basic 500mg test cycles ONCE per year, (or two short 4-6 weeks cycles per year) until you are 25 yo or something. By then you will be 230lbs, easily. Then you can evaluate your goals again, and go from there.

At the current rate, I’d hate to think what you will be running next year, for your 4th cycle
1000mg of test + 500mg tren + 800mg EQ + 50mg + orals per day?!
That will be what I call “abuse” for a 20yo.
Just take it easy, you won’t regret it.

Also I don’t feel comfortable adding in tren E after 7 weeks in!
It’s a long ester. The prolactin can be quite supressive, and hinders PCT recovery. Are you running low dose HCG during your cycle? I am inclined to save the tren E for next time. Run it from the start,for 6-8 weeks, and use test for 2 more weeks.

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice!

The steroid addiction didn’t “kick in” perse… ok maybe a little, haha. If I dropped to 6-7% bf i would be around 195.

I am running hcg currently. 500 iu/week

I understand what you’re saying about the amount of gear (1+ grams per week) but unfortunately with EQ it’s only effective at higher doses.

I’m probably going to stay away from tren because of the effect it can have on cardio and athleticism.

466

Tren E is much better than Tren A in that regard, kay. Not IMO, a fact. Was not sure if it was the Acetate version or not you were speaking of there. Plus, the Enanthate version does not aromatize. Sorry, I just kind of have a crush on Tren E, hahaha.

467

Tren E is what i was talking about.

i’m rather worried about it’s affect on my athleticism… thoughts?

468

My thoughts are why you think you need a gram plus per week for your second cycle and feel the need to get all fancy changing things part way through?

For what you want to achieve and the sides you dont want to encounter I would say to stay with your current products and dosing for another 7 weeks for 14 total.

Stasis followed by taper or serm.

469

since your EQ dosage is up there, I would recommend taking a blood test right now. Watch your blood count and BP. I would throw in an asperin a day just to thin it out a bit.

470

[quote]mephistopheles wrote:
since your EQ dosage is up there, I would recommend taking a blood test right now. Watch your blood count and BP. I would throw in an asperin a day just to thin it out a bit.[/quote]

good idea. or i could just donate blood maybe if its high rbc

471

[quote]daveybaby wrote:
Tren E is much better than Tren A in that regard, kay. Not IMO, a fact. Was not sure if it was the Acetate version or not you were speaking of there. Plus, the Enanthate version does not aromatize. Sorry, I just kind of have a crush on Tren E, hahaha.[/quote]

But how user friendly is it? The enanthate version by design has the possibility of exerting its negative sides for a longer period of time than its acetate counterpart. Coupled with its sometime “whack-a-mole” nature (I mean that caber sometimes doens’t control the sides, a SERM doesn’t do shit, you’re reduced to throwing everything at it in an effort of nailing something) I opt for acetate and for its availability.

Kay, what worked before will probably still work. Don’t crazy with the dosages. I suggest test E at 500-750mg/wk, tren ace at 200-250mg/wk and spritz some dbol at 35-50mg/day for the first 4-5 weeks and the whole thing for 10. Followed by the tried and true stasis/taper/SERM PCT. If that doesn’t put some hair on your chest your dead in the water mate. Cheers

-GB

472

[quote]daveybaby wrote:
Tren E is much better than Tren A in that regard, kay. Not IMO, a fact. Was not sure if it was the Acetate version or not you were speaking of there. Plus, the Enanthate version does not aromatize. Sorry, I just kind of have a crush on Tren E, hahaha.[/quote]

???

The only difference in tren e and tren a is going to be the ester length. So if someone happens to experience X sides with tren ace at Y dosage in Z amount of days, the only variable that is going to change, provided a long enough duration of use, is going to be the Z variable. The sides may build up more slowly so that you have a better chance to acclimate to them, but the effects of the drug itself will not really be any different.

Also, the ester attached to the trenbolone molecule has no effect upon whether or not the tren aromatizes. No tren of any ester aromatizes.

473

Back picture.

upper back and triceps especially blew up…

bent over rows FTW

474


MM

traps and shoulders lookin bigger

475

You’re turning into a monster!! Props to you bud…

476

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
You’re turning into a monster!! Props to you bud…[/quote]

i can only hope! thanks!

477

[quote]daveybaby wrote:
Tren E is much better than Tren A in that regard, kay. Not IMO, a fact. Was not sure if it was the Acetate version or not you were speaking of there. Plus, the Enanthate version does not aromatize. Sorry, I just kind of have a crush on Tren E, hahaha.[/quote]

Beep beep back up the truck…

How is that a fact? Provide a reasonable reference please.

And the second part… you seem to think the acetate version will aromatize? My friend, I do not believe there to be any difference between tren A and tren E other than the amount of time the drug spends in your system.

'Splain yoself!

478

[quote]Whoa! wrote:
daveybaby wrote:
Tren E is much better than Tren A in that regard, kay. Not IMO, a fact. Was not sure if it was the Acetate version or not you were speaking of there. Plus, the Enanthate version does not aromatize. Sorry, I just kind of have a crush on Tren E, hahaha.

Beep beep back up the truck…

How is that a fact? Provide a reasonable reference please.

And the second part… you seem to think the acetate version will aromatize? My friend, I do not believe there to be any difference between tren A and tren E other than the amount of time the drug spends in your system.

'Splain yoself![/quote]

Yup. Just what I said.

479

Don’t hurt me!!!

lol good work.

480

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Don’t hurt me!!!

lol good work.[/quote]

lol, thanks