This thread is my new favorite… Keep the updates coming. Thanks for all the log entries, very beneficial for me and I am sure for a lot of people.
[quote]Tonkaboy wrote:
This thread is my new favorite… Keep the updates coming. Thanks for all the log entries, very beneficial for me and I am sure for a lot of people.[/quote]
Glad to hear it. I will be updating again tonight around 10.
LEGS TONIGHT!
First let me state that I DON’T support or condone this type of behavior. I think you’re being short-sighted, and don’t fully understand the ramifications of what you’re doing. I’m not sure what your goals are, but I know that your current physique was the one that I possessed after 4 months of lifting. You would be best served doing a cycle of food rather than test.
That being said… I’ll be watching and interested to see what happens - if only from a scientific standpoint.
[quote]Schmazz wrote:
First let me state that I DON’T support or condone this type of behavior. I think you’re being short-sighted, and don’t fully understand the ramifications of what you’re doing.
[/quote]
Thank you for stating your opinion politely. What “ramifications” do you speak of, per se?
See Above post. 195 @ 6%, at 6’1
Ouch. So because you had that physique after only 4 months, I don’t know enough about training and diet? Maybe, when you started lifting, you were bigger than 5’11 120, like I wasI think my progress, based on my genetics (father was 5’10 130 when he graduated HS), and based on my starting position, was quite fine.
Oh, and yes, I will be stacking food with test. Crazy to combine I know 
[quote]
That being said… I’ll be watching and interested to see what happens - if only from a scientific standpoint.[/quote]
Thanks.
I don’t see how what’s-his-face was impolite. I was simply asking questions about the rationale.
However, you’re going through with this regardless of what anyone says, so good luck. It does seem as though you’ve at least put good thought into the cycle and routine and diet/nutrition for the cycle, which is good for progress regardless of steroids.
Good luck, I hope this cycle treats you well.
[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
I don’t see how what’s-his-face was impolite. I was simply asking questions about the rationale.
However, you’re going through with this regardless of what anyone says, so good luck. It does seem as though you’ve at least put good thought into the cycle and routine and diet/nutrition for the cycle, which is good for progress regardless of steroids.
Good luck, I hope this cycle treats you well.[/quote]
Sorry, I forgot your username whilst ranting, lol. I put a lot of thought into it, and I’ve been studying this forum as well as talking to BB’ers for a while so that I could make the most informed choices possible.
Day (-5)
Weight (175.4)
Leg Day
Squats ATG
135x8, 185x5, 195x5, 205x5, 225x5
Lunges
70x5x5, superset with squats
Leg Extension
110x5, 120x5, 130x5, 145x5
Leg Curls
70x5, 80x5, 90x5, 100x5 Superset with Extensions
Calf Raise Seated
**12-0-4 Rhythm (REALLY SLOW)
45x5, 70x5, 90x5
Overall, I can’t walk very well tonight. However, I need to up my weight for the next leg workout, because I’m moving up too much, I should be using a +/- 10 lbs all the way across my sets.
Caloric intake today: 6100
(threw down a cheese and bacon pizza)
Gear may be here as soon as Monday
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Ouch. So because you had that physique after only 4 months, I don’t know enough about training and diet? Maybe, when you started lifting, you were bigger than 5’11 120, like I wasI think my progress, based on my genetics (father was 5’10 130 when he graduated HS), and based on my starting position, was quite fine.
[/quote]
What I’m saying is that training takes time, not juice. Just because you don’t get the results you want right away doesn’t mean you should look for a shortcut. Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
And if you’d like to talk pre-lifting stats, we can do that.
6’3" 150 when I first started.
My pops when he graduated high school?
6’7" 180.
I’ve put on about 50 solid pounds in the past 3 years (I’ll take it). Your goal of 20 lean pounds could definitely be accomplished in a year. Why bother using the juice?
And on the issue of long-term side-effects, don’t think that permanently lowered test levels are not an issue. There are countless studies done on the old East German athletes documenting something like that happening. You’d be blind to ignore that.
I’m not sure if most on this board know my age, although I’m sure quite a few know my educational background. With that being said I’d keep in mind that this advice you’re being given is much closer to your situation than you would expect. I STRONGLY urge you to reconsider doing this, I really think that you’d be better served putting off the juice until a later date.
And can someone please chime in with the “Ace card” analogy that Dave Tate mentioned? I can never quote it right.
[quote]Schmazz wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
Ouch. So because you had that physique after only 4 months, I don’t know enough about training and diet? Maybe, when you started lifting, you were bigger than 5’11 120, like I wasI think my progress, based on my genetics (father was 5’10 130 when he graduated HS), and based on my starting position, was quite fine.
What I’m saying is that training takes time, not juice. Just because you don’t get the results you want right away doesn’t mean you should look for a shortcut. Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
And if you’d like to talk pre-lifting stats, we can do that.
6’3" 150 when I first started.
My pops when he graduated high school?
6’7" 180.
I’ve put on about 50 solid pounds in the past 3 years (I’ll take it). Your goal of 20 lean pounds could definitely be accomplished in a year. Why bother using the juice?
And on the issue of long-term side-effects, don’t think that permanently lowered test levels are not an issue. There are countless studies done on the old East German athletes documenting something like that happening. You’d be blind to ignore that.
I’m not sure if most on this board know my age, although I’m sure quite a few know my educational background. With that being said I’d keep in mind that this advice you’re being given is much closer to your situation than you would expect. I STRONGLY urge you to reconsider doing this, I really think that you’d be better served putting off the juice until a later date.
And can someone please chime in with the “Ace card” analogy that Dave Tate mentioned? I can never quote it right.[/quote]
This is really good advice, and I do appreciate it. However, my goal is not to ultimately “win”… (as in a BB competition) so I don’t think juice becomes an “ace” card for me. Also, how is juicing in general considered an “ace” card? Wouldn’t an “ace” card be using test+deca+eq+ some other stuff I don’t even know about?
A basic cycle of test, I wouldn’t think of as an ace/trump card.
Thank you for being constructive though.
There really seems to be a lot of elitism on here. I think of aas is like the stock market, no one really NEEDS to use it. I mean you could just dump your money in a 2% savings account. There are risks in both, but when you invest in both responsibly you can see some great returns. It seems obvious that this isn’t a case of steroid abuse, you’ve done your research,understand the risks, and planned accordingly. So put that needle in your ass and grow.
[quote]AKBoxer wrote:
There really seems to be a lot of elitism on here. I think of aas is like the stock market, no one really NEEDS to use it. I mean you could just dump your money in a 2% savings account. There are risks in both, but when you invest in both responsibly you can see some great returns. It seems obvious that this isn’t a case of steroid abuse, you’ve done your research,understand the risks, and planned accordingly. So put that needle in your ass and grow. [/quote]
Thanks for your support man. I like the analogy.
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
I forgot to mention in my OP, I do Muay Thai and MMA training 2 nights per week, as well as solo technique work 2 add’l nights per week at the gym.
I’d like to compete next fall[/quote]
Is your 6’1"/195/6-7% goal aesthetic or athletic? While OVT doesn’t neglect strength like the original GVT, it still doesn’t seem particularly suited to MMA (although I admittedly don’t know much about MMA training, aside from reading a few Waterbury articles). Are you trying to fit into a particular weight class? What are your post-cycle training plans?
[quote]LayinLo wrote:
Good luck, I’ll be staying tuned.[/quote]
She (avatar) looks extremely similar to my ex.
The thing is… IMEO, at 19 you are very likely to damage your own endocrine system - as it may not have fully developed yet. It probably hasnt actually.
You would be better waiting, i know you wont, but i have a moral obligation to tell you that.
If youy do not wait, you are being very reckless doing a 12 week cycle with 750mg of test a week at your age.
I have never needed to stretch 12 weeks yet… and i have used about 7-9 cycles.
I didnt save my ace card, i used it at your age. But i am saving heavy use - not deliberately, but simply because i gain very well off cycles UPTO 8 weeks - usually 8, and doses upto 600mg… 280mg dbol, 300mg deca, 300eq, 600mg test, 350 win etc…
I would use a 10 week cycle of 500mg. you will gain SHITLOADS off that and it is going to be less difficult to recover from - more importantly, at your age, you will recover easily, but you will suffer from low test levels much earlier than you would naturally. Meaning TRT earlier.
What do you say?
Joe
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Schmazz wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
Ouch. So because you had that physique after only 4 months, I don’t know enough about training and diet? Maybe, when you started lifting, you were bigger than 5’11 120, like I wasI think my progress, based on my genetics (father was 5’10 130 when he graduated HS), and based on my starting position, was quite fine.
What I’m saying is that training takes time, not juice. Just because you don’t get the results you want right away doesn’t mean you should look for a shortcut. Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
And if you’d like to talk pre-lifting stats, we can do that.
6’3" 150 when I first started.
My pops when he graduated high school?
6’7" 180.
I’ve put on about 50 solid pounds in the past 3 years (I’ll take it). Your goal of 20 lean pounds could definitely be accomplished in a year. Why bother using the juice?
And on the issue of long-term side-effects, don’t think that permanently lowered test levels are not an issue. There are countless studies done on the old East German athletes documenting something like that happening. You’d be blind to ignore that.
I’m not sure if most on this board know my age, although I’m sure quite a few know my educational background. With that being said I’d keep in mind that this advice you’re being given is much closer to your situation than you would expect. I STRONGLY urge you to reconsider doing this, I really think that you’d be better served putting off the juice until a later date.
And can someone please chime in with the “Ace card” analogy that Dave Tate mentioned? I can never quote it right.
This is really good advice, and I do appreciate it. However, my goal is not to ultimately “win”… (as in a BB competition) so I don’t think juice becomes an “ace” card for me. Also, how is juicing in general considered an “ace” card? Wouldn’t an “ace” card be using test+deca+eq+ some other stuff I don’t even know about?
A basic cycle of test, I wouldn’t think of as an ace/trump card.
Thank you for being constructive though.[/quote]
Correct, so drop your doses a bit - they are much more than you need. I AM TELLING YOU!
Joe
[quote]Dan M wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
I forgot to mention in my OP, I do Muay Thai and MMA training 2 nights per week, as well as solo technique work 2 add’l nights per week at the gym.
I’d like to compete next fall
Is your 6’1"/195/6-7% goal aesthetic or athletic? While OVT doesn’t neglect strength like the original GVT, it still doesn’t seem particularly suited to MMA (although I admittedly don’t know much about MMA training, aside from reading a few Waterbury articles). Are you trying to fit into a particular weight class? What are your post-cycle training plans?[/quote]
Completely aesthetic. MMA is on the side, recreationally.
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
The thing is… IMEO, at 19 you are very likely to damage your own endocrine system - as it may not have fully developed yet. It probably hasnt actually.
You would be better waiting, i know you wont, but i have a moral obligation to tell you that.
If youy do not wait, you are being very reckless doing a 12 week cycle with 750mg of test a week at your age.
I have never needed to stretch 12 weeks yet… and i have used about 7-9 cycles.
I didnt save my ace card, i used it at your age. But i am saving heavy use - not deliberately, but simply because i gain very well off cycles UPTO 8 weeks - usually 8, and doses upto 600mg… 280mg dbol, 300mg deca, 300eq, 600mg test, 350 win etc…
I would use a 10 week cycle of 500mg. you will gain SHITLOADS off that and it is going to be less difficult to recover from - more importantly, at your age, you will recover easily, but you will suffer from low test levels much earlier than you would naturally. Meaning TRT earlier.
What do you say?
Joe[/quote]
Thanks for the solid advice and even admitting you were once in my shoes.
If I dropped the dose, it would probably be to do 9 weeks at 500 mg/week and then stasis and taper.
Would that be long enough to maximize the cycle since they are long esthers?
Day (-4)
Weight 175.00
Today was rest day.
Caloric Intake is 4850
[quote]kayveeay wrote:
If I dropped the dose, it would probably be to do 9 weeks at 500 mg/week and then stasis and taper.
Would that be long enough to maximize the cycle since they are long esthers?[/quote]
Yes.
BTW, my avi says hi, Joe!..j/k
Have you thought about possiblt lowering your caloric intake to prime your body for the increased test? Kinda like the pros do before a blast/cruise cycle. Basically get close to a contest diet for a week and then after starting their gear, going back up to the higher caloric intake?