Kanye West

Still it’s bits and pieces. All you are doing is debating with bits and pieces. You aren’t at ground zero.

[quote]
Late means being 2 days late as people died. While old people died in their wheelchairs…or in their houses…or in the street because no one could even formulate how to get water to these people. You can attempt to make excuses…but I doubt many people are beliving it.[/quote]

Still relative. No excuses…I’m just not pretending I know more than I do or that I’m a X-men in a wheelchair.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
slimjim wrote:
On GWB, he called the Mayor of NO several days in advance advising a mandatory evacuation. What if he would have overridden the primarily black government of NO and declared martial law himself and the hurricane never hit?

Several days in advance? Who is spreading this? No one even knew it would hit NO several days in advance. Why lie?[/quote]

I didn’t say this…my quoting thing was in the wrong place.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
… I don’t agree with all that Kanye said, but the first part of his tirade about the media’s portrayal of black people in this situation was dead-on.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Courtesy of Mickey Kaus at Slate:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2125282/?nav=fix&#jschool

Here’s a J-School question: Has the network TV coverage of the N.O. Superdome fiasco a) made the situation seem to be worse than it really was (because TV always focuses on the negative things–the crime, the snafus, the corpses and complaints, etc.) or b) made the situation seem better than it really was (because network TV didn’t want to make it look as if a heavily African-American crowd of refugees couldn’t behave itself)? … I was going to guess a) until I read this: BBC NEWS | UK | England | Wear | British tourists 'flee Superdome' [via Althouse ( http://althouse.blogspot.com/ ) via Slate] and this: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16473521^663,00.html . 11:38 P.M.

That’s some b.s. there BB. To point to those articles as evidence is an injustice to the black community. There are many instances of violence and so on and so forth…no one can argue against that, but the way it is slanted against the black population is degrading. The instance that has been brought up many times is the picture of the black family with shopping bags being labeled looters, while the white kid in the store is labeled scrounging for food…it is this instance that I am referring to, not the other instances of obviously insane violence, such as what took place at the hospitals and rescue operations.

Although I don’t necessarily agree with all the statements in the below blog (namely, I don’t think Kanye West’s comments were “blasphemous and outrageous” – I believe he just had the balls to say what a lot of people are rightfully thinking right now), I believe it is well written, and is extremely balanced, especially the paragraph before the last – and mostly, it might surprise you considering its source: Billy Bush, one of AccessHollywood’s anchors:


Billy’s Blog
September 4, 2005

How immune to horrible images on TV are we? My guess is too much so.

Hollywood hits us constantly with entertainment fare that grips us, shocks us, makes us wince, but in the aggregate, I am convinced it desensitizes us to the real thing. We have seen it all, from our troops in combat to 9-11, the worst because of the motive behind it…hate so extreme is something to which none of us can identify.

I have been watching a fair amount of TV this weekend, mostly looking for news and progress reports, but what sticks with me is some of the raw emotion I’ve witnessed from different notable people. Leaders, whether in government, business or entertainment, usually behave like News Anchors during times of unrest, calm and even keeled so as not to inflame the situation. Not this time. Kanye West on the east coast feed of NBC’s telethon Friday night said, “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.” As blasphemous and outrageous as that statement is, and he will suffer some for it, I understand… he is overwhelmed with emotion and cannot stop to think. It’s human nature and Kanye is lucky he can still express himself in such an unbridled way. Tears from Celine Dion, Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, and many more. With some explanatory exception for being caught in the moment, not everyone can emote like that. With the media opting to show more graphic images, an elderly man slumped in his wheelchair, a dead body floating in water, the national shock factor has risen and our minds race to find something safe and secure to cling to.

I think the reason why the use of anxiety and depression medication has become more mainstream in America is my belief that everyone suffers from it to some degree. How could they not? We are constantly exposed to images that unsettle us, scare us, make us uncertain. Too much of that gets us too far away from ourselves. My thought is to watch a little TV, intermittently to stay informed, but also to read…not just the newspaper, but a book. Most importantly, turn to faith and talk with people you love about this and other things too. Do not get consumed, because I believe, it will leave you more robotically desensitized in the days ahead.

Finally, a thought on one other thing I have witnessed on TV, and this goes back to Kanye West, a brilliant, young artist caught in the moment…I pray that people approach the subject of race gently in this catastrophe. There is no question that the vast amount of faces we have seen on TV suffering have been black and that is hard to take. But because New Orleans, as a population, is 70% black, most people at or below the poverty line are black. My point: this has everything to do with class, and not race. My guess is that those with enough resources, cash on hand and a car, made it out of the city. Those without, black and/or white, did not. The class divide is on display here. It’s still awful and no reason to feel any better about the state of things, but it needs to be pointed out before more emotional, racial damage is done.

It’s Sunday and there are a few people I need to talk to today…my wife, my daughters, and most importantly, my God.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Although I don’t necessarily agree with all the statements in the below blog (namely, I don’t think Kanye West’s comments were “blasphemous and outrageous” – I believe he just had the balls to say what a lot of people are rightfully thinking right now)[/quote]

I agree with that. Though he was obviously nervous about it and nearly stuttered through it, I think he simply said what half of the people there were thinking to begin with. I do, however, think that was the wrong place to make that statement. I’ve seen the guy speak several times and that was the first time I saw his emotions take over like that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I agree with that. Though he was obviously nervous about it and nearly stuttered through it, I think he simply said what half of the people there were thinking to begin with. I do, however, think that was the wrong place to make that statement. I’ve seen the guy speak several times and that was the first time I saw his emotions take over like that. [/quote]

If half the people were thinking what he was thinking - then the other half was disagreeing with him. And judging from the shocked expression on Myers’ face, he was on the other side.

The guy may be a freaking genius. I’d never heard of him until he made his littel rant. You only get one first impression, and he made a mess of his if he wanted to be takn seriously in the politcal arena.

I’m glad to see some of his fans agree that his timing was bad - regardless of how right one may or may not think he was.

longer clip
http://media.putfile.com/Kanye-West-at-the-Hurricane-Katrina-tele

Looting New Orleans And America’s Poverty Crisis
http://www.eurweb.com/story.cfm?id=22126

no fault at all huh?
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

[quote]slimjim wrote:
That’s some b.s. there BB. To point to those articles as evidence is an injustice to the black community. [/quote]

slimjim,

When the only evidence I have seen for the entire case that blacks are on the receiving end of unfair characterizations by the media is a pair of pictures from two different news organizations with different captions (which I don’t even know if they came from the same area), then no, I don’t think the reports of two large foreign press agencies are irrelevant in making an argument that perhaps the U.S. media was actually underreporting the problems that were actually being caused by the victims (used loosely, depending on the problems they were causing) themselves.

The idea that it might come from cultural sensitivities due to the race of the people comprising the majority of those who were trapped or chose to remain in New Orleans does not seem implausible to me at all, especially with the contrasting reporting of those foreign news services, who don’t necessarily share the political concerns of U.S. reporters (especially vis a vis reports of their own citizens facing racial harassment and attacks).

[quote]slimjim wrote:

There are many instances of violence and so on and so forth…no one can argue against that, but the way it is slanted against the black population is degrading. The instance that has been brought up many times is the picture of the black family with shopping bags being labeled looters, while the white kid in the store is labeled scrounging for food…it is this instance that I am referring to, not the other instances of obviously insane violence, such as what took place at the hospitals and rescue operations.[/quote]

Exactly. The only evidence I’ve seen for the whole “media racist coverage” theory is those two pictures. I want to emphasize the problem I mentioned above, which may or may not be an actual problem depending on the answer to this question: where were the locations of the two pictures? New Orleans has suffered much more looting, shootings and crime than Mississippi, even though Mississippi actually took the direct hit from the storm (though not the flooding). So if the picture that was “racist” in characterizing looting was from New Orleans, and the other was from Mississippi, you’d have enough evidence for a perfectly plausible non-racist explanation right there, without even looking at other factors such as what else was being taken in the areas and by other people in the areas (which would affect the photographers reports, which would affect the captioning).

If you were to tell me the two photographs were taken in the same neighborhood by the same photographer during the same general timeframe, then I’d start to give the “racist” theory some credence – at least to the point of thinking it deserved to be examined further.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
WguitarG wrote:
Can’t anyone see that MuscleMachine17 is, in all probability, a 17 year old kid who idolizes a successful musician and therefore believes everything he says on mere conviction. I’d like to tackle a few points with you today. Firstly, as a musician, calling Kanye West a musical genius is an insult to the artform. I love rock music, and even some rap is appealing for a workout, but take an audio trip down the jazz or classical lane to see some truly gifted people.

Matter of opinion I guess.

Also, why in the world are you victimizing black people? This victim mentality is exactly what keeps primarily black areas impoverished, the feeling that the government(or the white man, as they seem to be interchangable to you) owes you something.

I don’t think this is “exactly” what keeps black areas impoverished. A lot of the problem is more closely linked to the education systems in predominately poor neighborhoods, as well as the environment and families poor people are raised in…it tends to hold true for all races, not just blacks who “blame the white man.”

The guy from Sweden hit the nail on the head, no where in the world but American do minorities, most notibly blacks, have such wonderful opportunities to better themselves, so calling the race card for everything that is wrong in black society is getting ridiculous. One of my black friends made a 150 on the LSAT coupled with a 3.0 GPA and got into the best law schools in the country. I am happy for her, but a white person with the same exact scores could not even get into a single accredited law school in Georgia, much less Yale University.

I agree that sometimes the race card gets thrown out when it shouldn’t…like the time Rush said made that comment about Donovan McNabb…I thought it was ridiculous that he was getting blasted for it because I saw what his point was. I don’t think that race was the issue in the problems sending aid into the region, but it was a factor in the media’s portrayal of blacks in this instance.

On GWB, he called the Mayor of NO several days in advance advising a mandatory evacuation. What if he would have overridden the primarily black government of NO and declared martial law himself and the hurricane never hit?

He would have been labeled a baffoon and a racist for not believing in the black mayor of NO. The administration had no idea where exactly the hurricane would hit, and as another person said, the disaster area in the size of Great Britain, and the fact that rescuers are being fired upon for attempting to help doesn’t help their situation.

We are judged for the actions we do take, not what might have happened.

The fact that Kanye West turns this disaster into a racial war, as is common among people who victimize themselves, is extremly myopic in perspective and racist to boot.

I don’t think anyone needs to victimize anyone in this situation as there are obviously victims here. I’d like you to clear up what was so racist about his statements. He said what he felt happened…his statements came in response to actions(or inaction’s) that he felt affected a community he related to.

There comes a time when people have to start taking personal responsibility for their actions and lifestyles instead of looking to the government for their every need(which sounds lot like socialism to me). The time is now, and a person’s true character emerges when put in a situation like this…

I think, unfortunately too, that statements like this are getting easier and easier for people to make so that they can shift responsibility away from themselves and rationalize their positions on political matters; especially since most’ve us have not lived under the same circumstances those we judge do…

As citizens in this country, and the world for that matter, we have a responsibility to each other to see that good is done throughout. Instead of saying “it’s their responsibility” why don’t you ask what you could do to change the situation so everyone could go to sleep in a bed, under a roof, and with a full stomach. It’s a bit naive and utopian I know, but it’s much better than your attitude of “fuck it, let them worry about themselves.”[/quote]

Hey slim,

In response to your responses:
On your post regarding education…I’m not black, but I was raised in a house that should have been condemned by the city…we did not even have a kitchen, a living room, nor a dining room, only my room, my dad’s room, and a laundry room,with a refrigerator stuck in the midst of dirty clothes. Our gross income came to about $9000 per year, so financial obligations were always on our mind. Not what most 9 year olds worry about.

Most of the whites that went to the local public school were fairly poor as well, but most of the crime was committed by blacks. The point of me telling you this is to convey that I have been raised in the environment of which you speak and so have many of my friends. This is why I believe there are other factors to consider, victimization being a prime candidate, because as a group of people, blacks tend to victimize themselves, even Kanye West was using the venue at the time to talk about how bad the blacks had it, not to talk about the PEOPLE that needed relief effort. He turned it into a racial thing, which, to me, to discount the other races effected by this tragedy, is racist in itself. The fact that he even viewed this scenario as being racial is sad, but that is victimiation at its pinnacle.

You also must consider the consequences before committing to a plan of action.

On your last statement. I have lived in the situations of those I was “judging,” and possibly worse. How am I shifting responsiblity away from myself by making the statements I made? Are you saying its my responsiblity to ensure the success of others. I can understand that good should be done throughout the community, and my solution is through empowerment. I am a member of Students for Free Enterprise, and we will often go around to impoverished neighborhoods and schools to teach poor children and the elderly how to use computers, how to access the internet, how to manage finances, economics etc. in hopes of motivating them to take responsibilty for themselves. Is that not the solution you were looking for?

My solution is to end victimization, as an empowered person is a self-motivated person who will contribute to his country and family in a positive manor instead of shifting the blame and responsibilty to someone else.

[quote]MuscleMachine17 wrote:
haney wrote:
MuscleMachine17 wrote:
doogie wrote:
Who the fuck is Kayne West?

I’m assuming he is the crack-head standing next to Mike Myers, but I mean who the fuck is he?

OK. Now I’m gonna ask you to explain to me and the other members of this board what exactly gives Kanye West the name “crackhead”?
What on earth can make you call a succesful, famous musician, a crackhead?
Is it because he’s black?!
HEY NO WAY! RACISM DOESN’T EXIST ANYMORE THESE DAYS!Right?

Webster’s definition

Main Entry: rac?ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Please tell me where in his post he said something along the lines of all black people are crackheads?

I don’t think you will find it.

He maybe racist, but you would never be able to tell from his post since he refered to an individual and not an entire race of people.

sigh

OJ than, closet-racism, “hidden” racism, whatever you wanna call it. It was obvious to anyone reading this post that he was using racial slur.
To anyone with his eyes open that is.[/quote]

Well then explain to me while I call all people (this means white and black) that do stupid things, or say stupid things crack head? I guess that makes me racist too. The way you are running off at the mouth shouting racism makes me you sound like you don’t know what the word means.

man get off kanye’s tip! He is a big enough man to dish out criticism, he should be able to take it. If he sounds like a fool, and he did. than he can deal with it. He has some talent, but talent does not mean he is smart.

Short and sweet and to the point. KW is an idiot. What makes actors and singers think that just because they can ‘sing or act’ makes them an expert on politics, is beyond me. This is a complex issue and finger pointing just takes away from the real task at hand. It just seems like this country has gotten really good at always pointing the finger elsewhere and focusing on the blame game instead of solving the issue at hand. The media is just as gulity though.

This morning, GMA had a ‘town hall’ meeting to answer some ‘tough’ questions about who is to blame for the slow response. Hey KW and GMA, instead of playing the blame game, get off you butts, grab a boat and look for survivors. I don’t have all the answers, so I won’t point fingers. Sorry if this has already been said earlier.

[quote]dukefan4ever wrote:
What makes actors and singers think that just because they can ‘sing or act’ makes them an expert on politics, is beyond me. [/quote]

Why anyone would vote for Reagan or Arnold is beyond me. Btw, are you a fan of the Blue Devils or the former canidate for gov. of La. David Duke?

[quote]doogie wrote:
Who the fuck is Kayne West?

I’m assuming he is the crack-head standing next to Mike Myers, but I mean who the fuck is he?

[/quote]

hahahahahahhaha. texas puts out more retards than cigarette smoking mothers.

[quote]concrete wrote:
dukefan4ever wrote:
What makes actors and singers think that just because they can ‘sing or act’ makes them an expert on politics, is beyond me.

Why anyone would vote for Reagan or Arnold is beyond me. Btw, are you a fan of the Blue Devils or the former canidate for gov. of La. David Duke?[/quote]

What is it with the childish, pointless dumbasses today? My God - learn how to argue with some semblance of intelligence, or just don’t push the send button.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
doogie wrote:
Who the fuck is Kayne West?

I’m assuming he is the crack-head standing next to Mike Myers, but I mean who the fuck is he?

hahahahahahhaha. texas puts out more retards than cigarette smoking mothers. [/quote]

Being that you seem proud to be from the scrotum of New England - I really find your attempt at superiority quite funny.

New freakin Jersey? Please don’t make me laugh any harder.

[quote]WguitarG wrote:

Hey slim,

In response to your responses:
On your post regarding education…I’m not black, but I was raised in a house that should have been condemned by the city…we did not even have a kitchen, a living room, nor a dining room, only my room, my dad’s room, and a laundry room,with a refrigerator stuck in the midst of dirty clothes. Our gross income came to about $9000 per year, so financial obligations were always on our mind. Not what most 9 year olds worry about.

Most of the whites that went to the local public school were fairly poor as well, but most of the crime was committed by blacks. The point of me telling you this is to convey that I have been raised in the environment of which you speak and so have many of my friends. This is why I believe there are other factors to consider, victimization being a prime candidate, because as a group of people, blacks tend to victimize themselves, even Kanye West was using the venue at the time to talk about how bad the blacks had it, not to talk about the PEOPLE that needed relief effort. He turned it into a racial thing, which, to me, to discount the other races effected by this tragedy, is racist in itself. The fact that he even viewed this scenario as being racial is sad, but that is victimiation at its pinnacle.

You also must consider the consequences before committing to a plan of action.

On your last statement. I have lived in the situations of those I was “judging,” and possibly worse. How am I shifting responsiblity away from myself by making the statements I made? Are you saying its my responsiblity to ensure the success of others. I can understand that good should be done throughout the community, and my solution is through empowerment. I am a member of Students for Free Enterprise, and we will often go around to impoverished neighborhoods and schools to teach poor children and the elderly how to use computers, how to access the internet, how to manage finances, economics etc. in hopes of motivating them to take responsibilty for themselves. Is that not the solution you were looking for?

My solution is to end victimization, as an empowered person is a self-motivated person who will contribute to his country and family in a positive manor instead of shifting the blame and responsibilty to someone else.
[/quote]

I applaud you for your endeavors, even though I still disagree with you in your assessment of the problems surrounding poor communities and our public education in those areas…I’m sure for every story like yours there are twenty that went the opposite direction. There are cases in every race where someone rises above their means, and I have never lived in poverty, but I really find it hard to believe that blacks are the only ones committing crimes in America.

I think I’m just going to have to agree to disagree with you on this topic, I do agree with you that victimization is a problem for certain minorities and will stall their progression in society.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
doogie wrote:
Who the fuck is Kayne West?

I’m assuming he is the crack-head standing next to Mike Myers, but I mean who the fuck is he?

hahahahahahhaha. texas puts out more retards than cigarette smoking mothers. [/quote]

heh…I got a chuckle out of this because I knew Rainjack wouldn’t be far behind with a response…

Regarding Kanye West’s “genius”:

Kanye West may, indeed, be some sort of musical genius. I am unqualified to speak to this, considering I’ve never heard anything that he has produced. I can say, however, that being a “genius,” or expert, or gifted, in one area does not naturally qualify you in other ones (eg, Noam Chomksy).

Perhaps someone could write Kanye a song about keeping one’s fool mouth shut. If he remixed and sampled it enough times, he might get the idea.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
concrete wrote:
dukefan4ever wrote:
What makes actors and singers think that just because they can ‘sing or act’ makes them an expert on politics, is beyond me.

Why anyone would vote for Reagan or Arnold is beyond me. Btw, are you a fan of the Blue Devils or the former canidate for gov. of La. David Duke?

What is it with the childish, pointless dumbasses today? My God - learn how to argue with some semblance of intelligence, or just don’t push the send button.

[/quote]

Touche’
I may be a childish dumbass, but the two sentences I posted were supposed to have a point. I foolishly dared to aim for irony. Lacking any semblance of intelligence, I now realize I was doomed to fall far short of the mark.
The first sentence would have to be rephrased for any chance at success, perhaps you would be kind enough to provide an example of how it could be done. The second sentence is, perhaps, superfluous. For those too young to remember or those who choose not to remember, David Duke, a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and founder of the National Association for the Advancement of White People, ran for governor of La. as a Republican, garnering 32% of the vote in an open primary, good enough for second place, forcing a runoff against the “crook” Edwin Edwards. The irony of someone calling himself dukefan4ever labeling Kanye West an “idiot” for suggesting racism factored into the government’s response to the tragic post-Katrina conditions in La. is so obvious, it hardly requires my feeble atempt to point it out. I apologize if I insulted your semblance of intelligence.

I’m now glad I didn’t throw in an Ignatious J. Reilly reference in my previous post in this thread. Such folly would have left me open to attack by dimwitted internet bullies.