Judo doesn’t get enough respect…I’m a big Yoshihiro Akiyama fan.
Thanks for that Xen. I loved it.
Jelly
I only watched the 1st 1/2 of the video cause it was boring. I’m sorry but if you are gonna argue that a bunch of leg trips = judo in MMA then I’m gonna laugh. I saw a couple hip throws which were the only real Judo.
Now if the 2nd 1/2 is packed with throws let me know and I’ll watch. Otherwise it was just some clinch work that a lot of wrestlers do.
I do like Karo’s judo but even he has a hard time pulling it off and he has amazing MMA judo.
How many judo matches have you watched? that shit is like 70% “leg trips” lol.
Night of a Thousand Grapevines.
Some of the UFC players have some nice hip wheels, though. I could never get into Pride.
Well, I thought it was great Xen. I could watch those guy’s “leg trips” all day, although I’d call most of them reaps (gari), hooks (gake), and sweeps (harai). Beautiful stuff, and you’ve got to be very talented to pull them off.
Interesting note, is so many MMA guys you don’t think of as “judo-guys” have judo backgrounds, it’s just they just moved on to other disciplines. Fedor, Sakuraba (his Dad ran a dojo), Don Frye, Dan Henderson, Kid (his mom was a world champ), the Nogueiras, they’re all black belts in judo. It’s not their “specialties” but I can see it there when they fight.
Jelly
Also, the Sambo guys are basically Judoka with funny accents.
[quote]Jelly Roll wrote:
Well, I thought it was great Xen. I could watch those guy’s “leg trips” all day, although I’d call most of them reaps (gari), hooks (gake), and sweeps (harai). Beautiful stuff, and you’ve got to be very talented to pull them off.
Interesting note, is so many MMA guys you don’t think of as “judo-guys” have judo backgrounds, it’s just they just moved on to other disciplines. Fedor, Sakuraba (his Dad ran a dojo), Don Frye, Dan Henderson, Kid (his mom was a world champ), the Nogueiras, they’re all black belts in judo. It’s not their “specialties” but I can see it there when they fight.
Jelly[/quote]
Hendo really???
Fedor, Sak, etc I knew for sure and you can definitely see it… also as another poster said anyone who does sombo basically = judo guy or at least heaaavily influenced by judo.
Kid his mom and sister are high level judoka that dude’s family is fucking ridiculous
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
I only watched the 1st 1/2 of the video cause it was boring. I’m sorry but if you are gonna argue that a bunch of leg trips = judo in MMA then I’m gonna laugh. I saw a couple hip throws which were the only real Judo.
Now if the 2nd 1/2 is packed with throws let me know and I’ll watch. Otherwise it was just some clinch work that a lot of wrestlers do.
I do like Karo’s judo but even he has a hard time pulling it off and he has amazing MMA judo.[/quote]
You’re right, it makes much more sense to exert twice the effort for the same result. When you actually take up a grappling sport and get “leg tripped” by someone half your size, maybe you will understand…
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
Also, the Sambo guys are basically Judoka with funny accents.[/quote]
The two sports are similar, but more in the manner that Greco and Judo are similar. Sambo is much more than “judo with leglocks” as I often hear other Judoka refer to it. The extent to which it covers pick-ups, single and double legs, and gripping alone make it very unique, not to mention the different rule-set and lack of ranking system. Throws and pins don’t end matches, so there is more continuous action and Sambo players tend to be much more aggressive in going for submissions. It’s too bad there are so few qualified Sambo instructors in the States =(
p.s. thanks to poster for the vid, great stuff
[quote]chitown34 wrote:
You’re right, it makes much more sense to exert twice the effort for the same result. When you actually take up a grappling sport and get “leg tripped” by someone half your size, maybe you will understand…[/quote]
I have been thrown around by people half my size, and I understand where you’re coming from. One of Judo’s strengths is allowing a little guy to get into position on a bigger guy, and take him down.
But that isn’t all Judo is. And, honestly, that in no way distinguishes Judo from BJJ. A video of grapevine after grapevine doesn’t really illustrate the unique tools of Judo.
A Judoka or a BJJ guy can trip you, and if it gets your opponent down and in a bad position, go for it. But a powerful throw, a hip wheel or an o soto gari, if an attack all by itself. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a match ended by a throw (slams, yes, but not throws), but it has to take something out of you to get thrown to the ground like that, even in a ring.
My argument is that leg trips don’t = judo because so many fucking grappling sports use them. So is it judo, jj, bjj, folk style wrestling, greco wrestling, sambo, pankration? Hopefully now you’ll understand where I’m coming from. If you can go back and research and find the original art that used leg trips before all others and it is judo then I’ll say leg trips = judo. Good Luck!
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
My argument is that leg trips don’t = judo because so many fucking grappling sports use them. So is it judo, jj, bjj, folk style wrestling, greco wrestling, sambo, pankration? Hopefully now you’ll understand where I’m coming from.
If you can go back and research and find the original art that used leg trips before all others and it is judo then I’ll say leg trips = judo. Good Luck![/quote]
I see where you are coming from. I guess it’s all semantics, but different arts specialize in different things. A BJJ guy is not going to be able to throw with the efficiency of a judo guy, and a judo guy is not going to be as good on the ground as a bjj guy.
When I see wrestlers or bjj guys perform leg trips in MMA, they often look very sloppy… they just sort of plant their leg behind their opponent and try to fall on them, often getting reversed.
When the judo guys in that clip do similar moves, they are using more timing and a sweeping/reaping action to throw their opponent. You said “leg trips don’t = judo”, but foot sweeps and reaps are the heart of judo and judoka just do them better than wrestlers and bjj guys imho.
I don’t know if judo practioners have better leg trips than others. I’d have to say that high level MMA guys do especially the wrestlers. Probably due to it being much safer to clinch then take them down than it is to shoot.
My whole point is that the video disappointed me cause I wanted more throws =( Didn’t have to be flashy could of just been standard hip throws.
[quote]chitown34 wrote:
thomas.galvin wrote:
Also, the Sambo guys are basically Judoka with funny accents.
The two sports are similar, but more in the manner that Greco and Judo are similar. Sambo is much more than “judo with leglocks” as I often hear other Judoka refer to it. The extent to which it covers pick-ups, single and double legs, and gripping alone make it very unique, not to mention the different rule-set and lack of ranking system.
Throws and pins don’t end matches, so there is more continuous action and Sambo players tend to be much more aggressive in going for submissions. It’s too bad there are so few qualified Sambo instructors in the States =(
p.s. thanks to poster for the vid, great stuff[/quote]
I agree,I wish there was more Sambo instructors! But the BJJ guy that invited me to hsi gym said he`ll teach leglocks but…it just isent the same…
Anybody read Blackbelt magazine? There was a letter about how judo is overlooked in MMA. Sure, guys like Karo who have actually adapted the whole style are rare, but the writer points out that, like Jelly Roll said, at least 50% of the legit fighters in UFC have had some judo training, if not to use the throws to know how to defend from them.
Also, let’s acknowledge that judo derives from ju-jitsu and that the fighting styles utilize a lot of the same techniques, in the general sense.
[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
Also, let’s acknowledge that judo derives from ju-jitsu and that the fighting styles utilize a lot of the same techniques, in the general sense. [/quote]
Well, to be precise, BJJ derives from Judo which derives from traditional ju jitsu.
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
Also, let’s acknowledge that judo derives from ju-jitsu and that the fighting styles utilize a lot of the same techniques, in the general sense.
Well, to be precise, BJJ derives from Judo which derives from traditional ju jitsu.[/quote]
exactly, that’s why i spelled it ju-jitsu instead of jiu-jitsu. my point being fighters with training in Japanese ju-jitsu (GSP) have training in judo-like takedowns and throws.
you can add some names to the Judoka in MMA
list- Josh Barnett, Paulo Filho and the obvious Kazuhirona Nakumura Sokoju,
there are many more.
Karo’s judo in MMA is straight up Goktor
who mostly teaches Judo- No Gi.
and for GSP he worked heavily with John Danaher- who is an Excellent judoka with incredible newaza. I believe he was the reason GSP trained at Renzo’s.
As for the video- how many people have taken down Kevin Randelman?
Judo helped my Greco , and my wrestling
Judo is good shit.
kmc