[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
I only watched the 1st 1/2 of the video cause it was boring. I’m sorry but if you are gonna argue that a bunch of leg trips = judo in MMA then I’m gonna laugh. I saw a couple hip throws which were the only real Judo.
Now if the 2nd 1/2 is packed with throws let me know and I’ll watch. Otherwise it was just some clinch work that a lot of wrestlers do.
I do like Karo’s judo but even he has a hard time pulling it off and he has amazing MMA judo.[/quote]
Unfortunately the site is blocked, so I can’t watch the video. However I do know a little something about Judo. Those “leg trips” are like the boxers jab. They’re the set up. Maybe something bigger will fit in and maybe it won’t. They’re also useful for making my opponent move. It’s just one of many tools to establish dominance and a strategy of attack. They’re pawns in a game of full contact chess at 80mph.
Here’s another video you guys might like, Karo teaching some throws.
And for those guys looking for Sombo, ask around your local judo clubs if there are any Russians that come in to train with them. Chances are good that they have a Sombo background, so you might be able to work something out with them.
I see where you are coming from. I guess it’s all semantics, but different arts specialize in different things. A BJJ guy is not going to be able to throw with the efficiency of a judo guy, and a judo guy is not going to be as good on the ground as a bjj guy.
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Say What? Where do come up with this crap. 10 or 15 years ago I might have agreed with you when BJJ sprang up and brought a whole new rationalization to the ground game, but now no, not at all.
Some Judoka absolutely suck at the stand up game, their whole strategy is get to the ground and win by submission or pin. The USJA is sponsoring grappling only competitions in addition to the regular Judo tournaments. We’ve got BJJ’ers in our Judo dojo, and our sensei has taken many of the students to the seminars of other instructors from other styles. With the amount of crossover and cross training we’re well past the point of saying the Judoka can’t grapple and the grappler can’t throw or strike.
I see where you are coming from. I guess it’s all semantics, but different arts specialize in different things. A BJJ guy is not going to be able to throw with the efficiency of a judo guy, and a judo guy is not going to be as good on the ground as a bjj guy.
Say What? Where do come up with this crap. 10 or 15 years ago I might have agreed with you when BJJ sprang up and brought a whole new rationalization to the ground game, but now no, not at all.
Some Judoka absolutely suck at the stand up game, their whole strategy is get to the ground and win by submission or pin. The USJA is sponsoring grappling only competitions in addition to the regular Judo tournaments. We’ve got BJJ’ers in our Judo dojo, and our sensei has taken many of the students to the seminars of other instructors from other styles. With the amount of crossover and cross training we’re well past the point of saying the Judoka can’t grapple and the grappler can’t throw or strike. [/quote]
Please tell me which Judoka “absolutely suck at the stand up game”. Are you talking about Joe Schmoe who trains judo twice a week or an actual competitor? Out of the 6 judo clubs I have trained at, roughly a quarter of the average class is devoted to groundwork with the rest given to throws.
I have only trained at two bjj clubs, but at both classes range from 80-95 percent groundwork and the rest standing. All I was saying is that the two arts specialize in different phases of the grappling game, and this is not to say that one can’t cross train in both to get the best of both worlds.
Edit: When I say stand-up game it is in the context of grappling, that is throws/sweeps/etc…
I didn’t say bad, just not as good as the bjj’er. It all depends on how much you train and what you train really. Most judo clubs I’ve trained at will only spend about 30 minutes out of a 2 hour class on ground work, while a bjj club will train groundwork for nearly the entire class. If one guy trains judo for 5 years and the other guy trains bjj for 5 years, that bjj player will have spent about 4x the hours doing groundwork that the judo guy did. More practice in one area=more skill in that area. Again just talking about average, obviously there will be exceptions on both sides.
I see where you are coming from. I guess it’s all semantics, but different arts specialize in different things. A BJJ guy is not going to be able to throw with the efficiency of a judo guy, and a judo guy is not going to be as good on the ground as a bjj guy.
Say What? Where do come up with this crap. 10 or 15 years ago I might have agreed with you when BJJ sprang up and brought a whole new rationalization to the ground game, but now no, not at all.
Some Judoka absolutely suck at the stand up game, their whole strategy is get to the ground and win by submission or pin. The USJA is sponsoring grappling only competitions in addition to the regular Judo tournaments. We’ve got BJJ’ers in our Judo dojo, and our sensei has taken many of the students to the seminars of other instructors from other styles. With the amount of crossover and cross training we’re well past the point of saying the Judoka can’t grapple and the grappler can’t throw or strike.
Please tell me which Judoka “absolutely suck at the stand up game”. Are you talking about Joe Schmoe who trains judo twice a week or an actual competitor? Out of the 6 judo clubs I have trained at, roughly a quarter of the average class is devoted to groundwork with the rest given to throws.
I have only trained at two bjj clubs, but at both classes range from 80-95 percent groundwork and the rest standing. All I was saying is that the two arts specialize in different phases of the grappling game, and this is not to say that one can’t cross train in both to get the best of both worlds.
Edit: When I say stand-up game it is in the context of grappling, that is throws/sweeps/etc…[/quote]
[quote]chitown34 wrote:
I didn’t say bad, just not as good as the bjj’er. It all depends on how much you train and what you train really. Most judo clubs I’ve trained at will only spend about 30 minutes out of a 2 hour class on ground work, while a bjj club will train groundwork for nearly the entire class. If one guy trains judo for 5 years and the other guy trains bjj for 5 years, that bjj player will have spent about 4x the hours doing groundwork that the judo guy did. More practice in one area=more skill in that area. Again just talking about average, obviously there will be exceptions on both sides.
[/quote]
I get what you’re saying. I jumped the gun previously.
Please tell me which Judoka “absolutely suck at the stand up game”. Are you talking about Joe Schmoe who trains judo twice a week or an actual competitor? Out of the 6 judo clubs I have trained at, roughly a quarter of the average class is devoted to groundwork with the rest given to throws.
[/quote]
That was a bit of an over statement. I just find some competitors’ stand up game exists so that they have an efficient means to go to the ground. Also some guys with weak defense or poor grip fight can turn around and dominate a match on the ground.
“If they could see on my face what I feel in my heart, no one would ever fight me” - Olympic and World Judo champion Yasuhiro Yamashita on being asked why he always smiled so much
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
“If they could see on my face what I feel in my heart, no one would ever fight me” - Olympic and World Judo champion Yasuhiro Yamashita on being asked why he always smiled so much [/quote]
I actually got to meet Yamashita at a clinic this past Spring. The first thing I noticed was how much bigger he looks in person to the point where it is almost scary… but he was very warm and patient with the dumb Americans like myself. There were about 100 people at the clinic but he made a point to watch everyone’s technique individually at some point and stayed around afterwards to talk to everyone and take pictures. Great champion and person
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
LOL@ Judoka being bad on the ground
oh man best laugh I’ve had all day… [/quote]
Yeah, that’s a bit of an exaggeration…but if someone said weaker I would be more inclined to agree. I train with GB, we’ve been more influenced by wrestling takedowns than by judo, so I’m a little biased, and in all honesty my judo isn’t the best. But when I visit judo schools I usually get thown and then I honestly am surprised by how weak their ground games are on the whole. That’s not to say that top level guys don’t have great newazza, Jimmy Pedro was awesome, Dave Camarillo developed a great all around game as well. I just mean on the whole it’s weaker, they do spend about 30% of their time working the ground, where I’m at, it’s abou 80%.
When it comes down to it, everything is about the preference of the instructor. Coming from a school that spends similiar amounts of time on the ground as standing, I’ve found that when facing someone primarily stand up in Judo they’ll tend to be good at locking the legs in order to have the ref stand them back up. This is fine in Judo, but not so fine in MMA or submission wrestling. As always a background of the fighter, and what they wish to accomplish is important.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
“If they could see on my face what I feel in my heart, no one would ever fight me” - Olympic and World Judo champion Yasuhiro Yamashita on being asked why he always smiled so much [/quote]
I love it.
Xen, in the same vein, here’s a longer read if anybody else is interested. I posted this up a long time ago, before we had this fantastic combat sports forum, so here it is again since this thread is discussing judo. It’s an exerpt from Kimura Masahiko’s book, I find it very inspiring to read whenever I get tired or worn-down from training. To me, Kimura epitomized the fighting spirit.
[quote]Jelly Roll wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
“If they could see on my face what I feel in my heart, no one would ever fight me” - Olympic and World Judo champion Yasuhiro Yamashita on being asked why he always smiled so much
I love it.
Xen, in the same vein, here’s a longer read if anybody else is interested. I posted this up a long time ago, before we had this fantastic combat sports forum, so here it is again since this thread is discussing judo. It’s an exerpt from Kimura Masahiko’s book, I find it very inspiring to read whenever I get tired or worn-down from training. To me, Kimura epitomized the fighting spirit.
Jelly[/quote]
Jelly fantastic read!
Kimura Masahiko has always been the quintessential Judo player.
I read it, and re read it all the time.
Thanks for posting this
any of you guys use karo pyrisian (sp?) book. i love judo and use this book/techniques all of the time for no gi bjj and mma. do you guys find it easy to use these techniques while fighting bc many guys at my gym and other gyms find it hard to incorporate judo into thier game.
