I AM The fact-checking arm:
Can you prove even one of these wrong?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
you are telling me you can not produce a single link to prove what I have stated is wrong. That the intervention in Libya was a failure because it DID NOT stop the deaths of thousands or end a civil war. It just created MORE chaos, more anarchy, more deaths and more killing.
[/quote]
Assumptions: No-fly zone and targeting of Libyan army tanks and artillery reduced total number of casualties by limiting extent of aerial assault on rebel strongholds in and near civilian and urban centers; more generally, intervention brought 2011 conflict to a quick end relative to what would have otherwise been likely (see Syria).
Take the low estimate for the 2011 civil war of ~9,500 dead and ~2,000 missing in ~8 months:
Take the casualty estimates beginning with the onset of new, open war (2014 - present): ~3,200 in fourteen months:
Do the math yourself. The 2011 war would have been bloodier and longer without outside intervention. Long, bloody war of sustained intensity in Iraq and Syria gave us ISIS. Without intervention, there is every reason to believe that a longer, bloodier war in Libya would have been commensurately more productive of its own ISIS/ISIS-like nightmare.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I AM The fact-checking arm:
[/quote]
Finding a couple of links, including from fucking RT, none of which refute my argument or reasoning, is not fact-checking. Let’s take an example. You linked to Wikipedia. Let’s see what Wikipedia says:
Libyan Civil War (2011): 9,400 killed and 4,000 missing in 8 months.
Factional violence in Libya (2011-14): 942-1,096 killed in 2011-2012; Similar 2013 but I’m not taking the time to add it up myself. Less than 3,000 in 3 years.
Second Libyan Civil War (2014-present): 3,028 killed in 9 months.
Per your source, the most intense fighting by far took place during the 2011 civil war, and the fighting in its aftermath has not approached even conservative estimates of its bloodiness. Per reason, that conflict would have been more intense and would have gone on longer – again, see Syria – if Qaddafi hadn’t been deprived of air power, artillery, and hardware by the intervening alliance. Per reason and what we know about ISIS in Syria and Iraq, long and bloody wars of sustained intensity provide jihadist cancer with the ideal conditions for growth. And that’s a wrap.
And thus a battle more epic than Ain Jalut has been fought on the mighty T-Nation PWI Forum. We shall meet again Smh!! In the meantime have fun. Edited - hear ISIS in Libya bombed the Iranian ambassadors place? Their days are numbered. Now if we only had a commander in chief with a comprehensive plan to take them out but I guess that’s too much to ask.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
or else you idiots would still be sending smoke signs and Nagasaki would still be standind. (well it is but they did went through a rough patch at some point).
[/quote]
Yep, that whole pesky part about them starting the war unprovoked and slaughtering millions had nothing to do with it.
Revisionist history at it’s finest.[/quote]
I already explained the other tard that my point was: without European brain you wouldn’t have been able to nuke the Japs.
Try to keep up.
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
or else you idiots would still be sending smoke signs and Nagasaki would still be standind. (well it is but they did went through a rough patch at some point).
[/quote]
Yep, that whole pesky part about them starting the war unprovoked and slaughtering millions had nothing to do with it.
Revisionist history at it’s finest.[/quote]
I already explained the other tard that my point was: without European brain you wouldn’t have been able to nuke the Japs.
Try to keep up.
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Priceless…please don’t leave, and don’t let the snow that has buried you in your dorm room melt.
I just spit beer laughing.
Seriously, I read this whole thread on Friday on my phone at work and I was rolling on the floor cracking up.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sticking this in this thread cuz it’s become a potpourri of sorts.
“‘This country is in serious trouble,’ he believes. ‘The people who hate us – and it?s not just radical Islam, it’s the Chinese, it’s the Russians, it’s the Iranians – they know that our leaders don’t know what they’re doing, because they’ve been kicking the tires.’”
Stephen Coughlin – a leading expert on national security
Yep.
Also:
“The UN Human Rights Commission passed UN Resolution 1618, to implement OIC?s 10 year plan. If it becomes law, ‘it would have the effect of subordinating our first amendment to Islamic slander laws,’ Coughlin say.”[/quote]
Thanks for the info, that’s pretty fucked up. I really don’t get this international law agreements. They’re never to our benefit. SM posted one about immigration requirements from 3rd world countries for developed, eg Western countries, iirc.
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
The only thing their education had in common was that it was way better than yours, or else you idiots would still be sending smoke signs and Nagasaki would still be standing. (well it is but they did went through a rough patch at some point).
[/quote]
Nagasaki? Wtf does that even mean? You’d be speaking German, …or worse…
[/quote]
Means if it were up to murican brains you’d never be able to blow shit up with big bombs or build space shuttles.
Dammit do I have to explain you everything?
And I can speak German, thank you very much. This isn’t America, where people are lucky if they even speak English correctly.
But yeah, if it weren’t for the Russians who knows, maybe the German’s would’ve last a bit longer.
[/quote]
A friend of mine once characterized the U.S.-Soviet space race as “a competition between our Krauts and their Krauts.” And the reason our manned aerospace program can barely get off the ground, so to speak, while the Russians have a space station in orbit is because “our Krauts are dying faster than their Krauts”. An oversimplification, but I thought it was funny.
Yeah, it doesn’t come naturally to most Americans to think of the Dutch, the Belgians and the Portuguese as murderous, atrocious bastards, but they certainly were when they put on their pith helmets and went a’colonizing. Angola and Mozambique were not very nice places: the Portuguese did not, shall we say, put as much thought into building infrastructure as, say, the British in Kenya or Rhodesia.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Yeah, it doesn’t come naturally to most Americans to think of the Dutch, the Belgians and the Portuguese as murderous, atrocious bastards, but they certainly were when they put on their pith helmets and went a’colonizing. Angola and Mozambique were not very nice places: the Portuguese did not, shall we say, put as much thought into building infrastructure as, say, the British in Kenya or Rhodesia.
[/quote]
Ah-now I get you, very clever Varq. You know, it always made me wonder, since you brought up the Dutch, Belgians & Portuguese…maybe the Nazi’s got the worst rap of them all because they were doing the same as these other groups were doing (in Africa, against the black population) in Europe against white people.
Thoughts?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Gkhan, my guess with Cuba is that its the leftist in Obama. Unite the hammers and the sickles of the world.
If he were in college today, he’d probably have a few Che shirts in his drawer.
[/quote]
Didn’t see this post earlier for some reason.
Good call.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
But Euros have NO problem jumping in and telling us what WE should be thinking and doing.
[/quote]
Re-posted, because it needed to be said.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Yeah, it doesn’t come naturally to most Americans to think of the Dutch, the Belgians and the Portuguese as murderous, atrocious bastards, but they certainly were when they put on their pith helmets and went a’colonizing. Angola and Mozambique were not very nice places: the Portuguese did not, shall we say, put as much thought into building infrastructure as, say, the British in Kenya or Rhodesia.
[/quote]
Ah-now I get you, very clever Varq. You know, it always made me wonder, since you brought up the Dutch, Belgians & Portuguese…maybe the Nazi’s got the worst rap of them all because they were doing the same as these other groups were doing (in Africa, against the black population) in Europe against white people.
Thoughts?[/quote]
My thoughts are that we generally consider spiders that kill flies and other low-value animals to be “good”, while the spiders that bite and kill our beloved pets, or worse yet, bite us or our children, we eradicate with great hatred.
And yet, the different species of spiders are not doing anything qualitatively differently. In fact, I’m sure the black widows and brown recluses, were they capable of rational thought, would swear up and down that they only acted in self-defense.
My other thought is, if the Armenians, the Kurds, and the various tribes of Bantu, Aboriginal Australians and American Indians had anything near the political clout and presence in the media that Jews have, we would never be allowed to forget their stories, either.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
And thus a battle more epic than Ain Jalut has been fought on the mighty T-Nation PWI Forum. We shall meet again Smh!! In the meantime have fun. Edited - hear ISIS in Libya bombed the Iranian ambassadors place? Their days are numbered. Now if we only had a commander in chief with a comprehensive plan to take them out but I guess that’s too much to ask.[/quote]
Gee…, if only the Iranians had the ability to nuke ISIS in retaliation.
Juuuuuuuuuust kidding. 
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My other thought is, if the Armenians, the Kurds, and the various tribes of Bantu, Aboriginal Australians and American Indians had anything near the political clout and presence in the media that Jews have, we would never be allowed to forget their stories, either.[/quote]
True, but it wasn’t just the Jews I was talking about. The Europeans went to the “undeveloped” countries like Africa, Australia, Middle East, India, and made them into colonies. Germany, Japan and Italy were merely following suit. Italy went into Ethiopia, but the mistake the Germans made was trying to colonize parts of Europe itself while going after parts of the British Empire along with Japan. The colonization or quest for Lebensraum and extermination of local inhabitants, ie Poles, Russians, Czechs, ect, along with Jews, of course, made their crime seem the worst in history to date.
And, yes, I agree with your above statement.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
And thus a battle more epic than Ain Jalut has been fought on the mighty T-Nation PWI Forum. We shall meet again Smh!! In the meantime have fun. Edited - hear ISIS in Libya bombed the Iranian ambassadors place? Their days are numbered. Now if we only had a commander in chief with a comprehensive plan to take them out but I guess that’s too much to ask.[/quote]
Gee…, if only the Iranians had the ability to nuke ISIS in retaliation.
[/quote]
Such a battle would still pale in comparison to the mighty T-Nation argument between myself and Smh!
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My other thought is, if the Armenians, the Kurds, and the various tribes of Bantu, Aboriginal Australians and American Indians had anything near the political clout and presence in the media that Jews have, we would never be allowed to forget their stories, either.[/quote]
True, but it wasn’t just the Jews I was talking about. The Europeans went to the “undeveloped” countries like Africa, Australia, Middle East, India, and made them into colonies. Germany, Japan and Italy were merely following suit. Italy went into Ethiopia, but the mistake the Germans made was trying to colonize parts of Europe itself while going after parts of the British Empire along with Japan. The colonization or quest for Lebensraum and extermination of local inhabitants, ie Poles, Russians, Czechs, ect, along with Jews, of course, made their crime seem the worst in history to date.
[/quote]
Sure, but Stalin and Mao killed many times more of their own people than Hitler killed Jews, Poles, Czechs, Catholics, Russians and Catholics combined, and yet if anyone wants a poster boy for genocide, good old Adolf is the one everyone thinks of. That, my friend, is a successful marketing campaign.
Incidentally, Lebensraum is just the German equivalent of “elbow room”, the unofficial slogan of Manifest Destiny, which is of course where he got the idea. Nobody thinks ill of Andrew Jackson or Alexander or… for that matter, your own namesake, but their policies weren’t all that different. Hitler had the benefit of technology, but the drawback of opponents with similar technology.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-turns-chemical-weapons-loses-120000404.html
interesting.
Gives a short history of Saddam’s chemical weapons, the Iraq invasion, and how al-qaeda and now ISIS are trying to get their hands on these supposed imaginary weapons.