I’ve always seen suicide bombers as the low level citizens who are desperate to give their families a better life by selling their own life as “martyrs”…I really don’t believe the whole “Holy War” thing at all. I’m not understanding the connection between Islam and street kids that launch attacks for money…I’m sure money is the incentive and not the purging of Christians or Jews.
IDK really, but, why isnt this the more common thought pattern? I mean, the formula for destruction has always been the same, right? Desperate poor people being taken advantage of by batshit leaders…right? Germany and Japan come to mind right now…even in my own experience from high school, the kids who had “no future” were treated like royalty by the recruiters at the school.
Anyway…why arent we hearing or seeing it from the stance I’ve presented…or am I just completely off base?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Personally I think suicide bombings require more motivation than money. People have to be psychologically warped into it.
So why is it that there aren’t holy wars and suicide bombings in other places with other religions? there are certainly desperate people other places.[/quote]
Well, from my interactions with middle eastern people, I do notice a familial bond that’s oddly strong. I think they have a concept of family being the individual. So that would lead them to think of giving the money to their community/family for school or a better living situation.
Why arent there bombers elsewhere? Maybe because theyre being used as drug traffickers…prositutes…or other things that arent as drastic.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I’ve always seen suicide bombers as the low level citizens who are desperate to give their families a better life by selling their own life as “martyrs”…[/quote]
The 14 year old boy with profound Down’s Syndrome who certain arab extremists strapped explosives on in order to kill my wife and unborn son (among many others) made a video basically saying he was doing it because he would never get laid in this world, so he was going into the next world where he would get 72 virgins and special palace since he not only died a martyr, but killed lots and lots of evil Jews. I really don’t blame him much; he was a pawn, used by his own father (a doctor) and brothers who basically didn’t want to take care of him.
The 9/11 hijackers and most terrorists are generally upper class and wealthy. There are some exceptions, but not many. The muslims who tried to shoot up the London airport were doctors.
In other words, whatever the cause, it is not economic.
Sometimes it is best not to try to figure out why evil is done, as thinking like a person who does evil things can make you evil.
You post is full of ignorant stereotyping. I resent your characterization that someone who has a negative view of islam is motivated by fear or hatred? Calling what are legitimate concerns, fear is bullshit. This isn’t elementary school and you aren’t going to goad us into doing stupid shit because you’ll call us chicken if we don’t go along with what you want. You need to take those playground antics somewhere else.
The last time I checked it wasn’t just poor people who were committing suicide attacks. Mohammad Atta came from a well to do family and went to university to be an engineer. The Bin Laden family is worth almost a billion dollars. The father of the Christmas underwear bomber is a doctor who has money. The Glasgow airport bombers were Doctors. In fact there was a recent study that showed that college educated muslims are more radicalized than the ones who haven’t been to school.
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)
As Sifu already told you, it’s not about “poor schmos” doing bad things for their family.
Most suicide bombers aren’t even religious.
And the really spectacular ones (9/11, Mumbai 2008 attacks etc etc) however, are very religious but are from middle class or even upper class.
Why don’t you make your homework before making up theories?
Yes, Germany and Japan, Rock, but that doesn’t compare at all to Islam. Many countries have had their bad reign of dictatorship… for a certain period of time. Who is still blowing people up today, though? Muslim extremists. Muslim extremists have been owning people left and right ever since the Qu’ran came into existence. As long as that book is around, Muslim extremists will always exist, as will terrorism.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Why all the fear/hate for Islam?
I’ve always seen suicide bombers as the low level citizens who are desperate to give their families a better life by selling their own life as “martyrs”…I really don’t believe the whole “Holy War” thing at all. I’m not understanding the connection between Islam and street kids that launch attacks for money…I’m sure money is the incentive and not the purging of Christians or Jews.
IDK really, but, why isnt this the more common thought pattern? I mean, the formula for destruction has always been the same, right? Desperate poor people being taken advantage of by batshit leaders…right? Germany and Japan come to mind right now…even in my own experience from high school, the kids who had “no future” were treated like royalty by the recruiters at the school.
Anyway…why arent we hearing or seeing it from the stance I’ve presented…or am I just completely off base?[/quote]
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)
As Sifu already told you, it’s not about “poor schmos” doing bad things for their family.
Most suicide bombers aren’t even religious.
And the really spectacular ones (9/11, Mumbai 2008 attacks etc etc) however, are very religious but are from middle class or even upper class.
Why don’t you make your homework before making up theories?[/quote]
I think you are missing something viv a vis radical Islam and radical Christianity. Both religions go off the deep end for similar reasons. Chief amongst those is being hyper religious and taking things way too seriously. The thing to really consider is that if a religion that has Jesus as it’s role model can have people who turn into nutcases, it should tell us something about how important it is for a holy man to be non violent and be an exemplary example.
Something else to consider about radical islam is the generational differences. There seems to be this misconception that is is just a matter of how kids are brought up in the religion. That if the parents are moderates then the kids will be also. That is not the case. To some extent radical islam is a youth movement. Where you have kids from moderate families who look upon the moderate islam their parents practice as being something that was imposed upon them during the colonial era and is not the proper way to practice their religion. So they are turning to wahhabism because it is easy to make the arguement that wahhabism was the way their ancestors practiced the religion before Christian European colonialists came along and imposed a watered down version of islam. That is why we are seeing a lot of radicalization in college students.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
2. The 9/11 hijackers and most terrorists are generally upper class and wealthy. There are some exceptions, but not many.[/quote]
Upper class and wealthy says nothing about intelligence. You should have mentioned they all had university degrees.
Everybody wants to be the hero in his own life, if he can’t be the hero he may choose to be the villain to get the fear and “respect” he deserves. Schoolshootings, anyone heard of those? Middle class white boys and not necessarily social outcasts. And this internet thing isn’t only a good thing, it plays a big role for both schoolshooters and wealthy and educated suicidebombers. Plus numerous other factors, of course.
Personally I’m of the opinion, that every schoolshooter and suicidebobmber has been still “asleep” and in fact been playing all the time. Not one of them had reached the state were they opened their eyes to see where they really are, they never left neverland.
Of course only a small minority of those who stay in neverland become murderers. Luckily their games are usually less harmfull.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
2. The 9/11 hijackers and most terrorists are generally upper class and wealthy. There are some exceptions, but not many.[/quote]
Upper class and wealthy says nothing about intelligence. You should have mentioned they all had university degrees.[/quote]
That’s a very good point. Lots of doctors, engineers, lawyers, architects, etc. among the terrorists. Certainly educated, most likely above-average intelligence.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
2. The 9/11 hijackers and most terrorists are generally upper class and wealthy. There are some exceptions, but not many.[/quote]
Upper class and wealthy says nothing about intelligence. You should have mentioned they all had university degrees.[/quote]
That’s a very good point. Lots of doctors, engineers, lawyers, architects, etc. among the terrorists. Certainly educated, most likely above-average intelligence.[/quote]
Look at the guy who tried to blow up that plane around Christmas time. Wasn’t his dad a doctor?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)
[/quote]
I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.
I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]
Guy named Erik Rudolph(sp) blew up a women’s clinic about a half mile from where I’m sitting right now. My car was in the “extended blast radius” and had to be check for evidence when it happened. Nurse got mangled, cop who was working as security got killed. All in the name of Christianity. Stuff like that has happen a few times, doctors being shot etc.
Whether ‘islam’ can take the world by force is one thing. Whether it’s otherwise harmful is another.
Cruel animal slaughter practices, mutilating babies’ penises, wanting to kill women for ‘honor’, thinking non-muslim women are deserving of hostile advances and demanding this or that special treatment = bad. Sure, some of that is present in some other religions as well but islam kind of takes the cake.
In Europe (probably brit-oceanian territories as well), hatred is enchanced by the fact that the government pumps thousands of euros a month into an invidual muslim who may have no desire of integrating, while ordinary citizens are fighting to survive.
That, then, is the gov’s fault.
Jews dislike muslims and don’t have much incentive to pump them up as superior superheroes in their Hollywood movies like they do with certain other minorities for example. Thus muslims, regardless of colour, get less PC treatment. Then again, some of the connections between the practices of judaism and islam help to bring about credibility for islam (and the other way around) owing to people’s perceptions of judaism as the good religion.
All in all, whether islam is terrorist is not even a necessary question. It carries enough nuisances as it is. Of course it does not help that most muslims are non-white and yearn for white countries which adds to the strife and tribalization; human nature.
The problem is that there is a preponderance of violence from people who claim to practice, follow and act violently in the name of their religion. There is ton of others who condone the violence. Most of the people who defend islam as a religion of peace, are not muslims. I think this is more than a PR problem. There is far to little action from muslims to stop the violence and live in peace.
If they have a problem they need to address. I don’t know anything about islam and I don’t care to. But there are far to many violent radical muslim’s for me to think these are isolated problems. If they want respect, they need to earn it. Those who aren’t violent or radical need to clean their own house. Sadly, thatâ??s just the way it is. The solution is simple, those who claim islam need to act right. If they act right, the problem goes away.
Images of women having their noses cut off, little boys having their arms’ crushed for stealing, the marrying of prepubescent girls, etc. All we hear is that we have to accept them, no where is the demand for tolerance reversed. If they don’t want the bad rep, then they need to fix it. The fault is their own. The have chosen to act poorly, people are suspicious.
Are their bat shit crazies in other faiths? You bet, but the numbers in islam are a staggering. It’s a little tough to believe it’s just the fringe.