Just wondering if anybody has tried this John broz plan. The proposed template is…max backsquat days 1-6 then backoff sets of a minimum of 3x2 up to 50 reps. Max bench plus backoffs days 1 3 and 5. Deadlifts days 2 4 and 6 for 10 sets of 2 to 3 reps. Assistance or bodybuilding work done after main work.
Just read about this method and trying tp decide if I should use it. Would love to hear any insight into this.
I tried a Bulgarian peaking week once where I max squatted 6 days in a row and it destroyed my hips. I could barely even walk
Not trying to start controversy here, but the thing to consider when looking at his methods- well, a few things to consider, 1) yes, they work for his guys. BUT 2) not saying right or wrong or taking sides, but they did just get busted for using. It will work, but you have to be able to recover, and there is the problem in my opinion. I think with special “supplementation” you may be able to recover, but I doubt it is possible, unless you are that 1 in 10,000 freak, for a normal person to recover from it. The shear volume will eventually catch up to most people. Again, just my opinions.
First, if you do this, prepare to be beaten up constantly. Do not jump into this without a ton of buildup, his lifters work for months before they can lift everyday, and that was with the help of less than legal supps (in at least 2 cases), it would honestly be brutal.
He emphasizes speed work. The “max reps” are fast and clean reps, not actually true maxes. Seems especially true on DLs. On his youtube account (regarding Oly) he admits that what the lifter does every day depends on what he sees and what he feels (not necessarily maxing). He also says he would “never” do a PL squat. In all honesty, there is a lot to pushing the body to it’s limits, most of us rarely do, but this is a whole shit ton of lifting that would honestly be almost impossible for someone who isn’t doing this for a job.
EDIT: in what I read 1 of the 3 bench days is CG according to Broz.
im doing this right now and i love it. The advice ive read from other olympic weightlifting coaches who have their athletes do switch to the bulgarian method is to “ADAPT”. Admittedly the olympic routine of the program is much harder, but for the powerlifting aspect you still have to adapt. Im taking 4 months to work up to maxing every day (starting at 80% 1 week, 85% 2nd week, 90% 3rd week, 95% 4th week) then next month 85% etc etc etc until im maxing every day.
Also when you start maxing everyday dont add in the back off sets. Wait a month and then add them in, this is also part of the adaption. Bodybuilding.com (yes terrible site) has a good forum where broz came in and answered a million questions about the program. adaption is key for the joints, tendens and your mental health. Im choosing to do it over 4 months, john broz has said that it can take as little as 1 month and as long as 6 months.
Anyone who says that it wont work without the use of steroids is wrong. The human body is capable of so much more credit than we give it. Your body will adapt to any amount of stress you place upon it. Cave man ran miles a day chasing a mammoth and i am 100% certain they were 100x tougher than we are now. The more work you put in, the more your going to get out.
My advice is to adapt and then prepare for the “dark times” a period when you will feel like absoulte shit and everything in your body will hurt - this is the time period you need to push yourself through. Then max Back squatting becomes like walking. EASY AS FUCK.
Goodluck man and may you adapt quickly.
Haven’t read everyones replies here but:
A/ Only appropriate if oly style squatting imo
B/ California strength seem to have a lot less, shall we say, “suspicion” around them and he says he never has his lifters squat more then 4x a week. I can vouch for the effectiveness of 3-4x a week squatting via Smolov, as can many others on this board, and I see no reason why someone would even consider squatting more this unless they were a full time OLY lifter (and even then, most “regular people” seem to have far more success with 3-4x)
^ At the very least, smolov would allow you to adapt to that demand before considering taking it any further
Just up your test and it should workout fine.
Although I’m not a powerlifter, I do have some experience with squatting more frequently.
Started with SS, squatting three times a week. At this point in time everybody was complaining how they couldn’t ‘‘walk’’ and blablablabla. I did cardio on off days.
Then I read about Pavel’s greasing the groove, squatted 5-6 times a week(sunday off, because, you know saturdays.) My strength never really stalled.
Two things to keep in mind though:
1./Keep volume low as you start. With ss I was doing 3 warm up sets, then 3 straight sets of 5(max was 120 something).
With Pavel’s, I was only doing 1 warm up with half the weight, then 2x5 same weight. Switched to ATG squats, max was around 100.
2./I did the GOMAD thing. Looking back, I’d never do it again(acne etc), but…my strength really soared. Gained fat yes, but the strength gains were immense.
[quote]Sasimi wrote:
Although I’m not a powerlifter, I do have some experience with squatting more frequently.
Started with SS, squatting three times a week. At this point in time everybody was complaining how they couldn’t ‘‘walk’’ and blablablabla. I did cardio on off days.
Then I read about Pavel’s greasing the groove, squatted 5-6 times a week(sunday off, because, you know saturdays.) My strength never really stalled.
Two things to keep in mind though:
1./Keep volume low as you start. With ss I was doing 3 warm up sets, then 3 straight sets of 5(max was 120 something).
With Pavel’s, I was only doing 1 warm up with half the weight, then 2x5 same weight. Switched to ATG squats, max was around 100.
2./I did the GOMAD thing. Looking back, I’d never do it again(acne etc), but…my strength really soared. Gained fat yes, but the strength gains were immense.[/quote]
LOL
I did a couple months of ATG squatting, push press, then deadlift or dumbell rows 5+ times a week, sort of Broz inspired. I did the “max” single for the day and a little bit of back off work. You have to build up to it and you get used to it. I made good gains, ill see if I can find my spreadsheet from that period. However, I think it began after an inury so the results were exaggerated - my ATG back squat went from like 275 to 365 because I was rehabbing at the start.
It was interesting - I never really sweat from lifting but with this I would leave drenched without doing any cardio. Full body max lifting AMAP was demanding but not draining. I may go back to it once what I am currently doing plateaus.
I have never used AAS and drink soy milk on a regular basis.
You must do a Madcow variation of 5/3/1 adapted to powerlifting, if you got real balls you can do Smolov on Monday to Friday and Sheiko on Saturday but you need to have big brass balls.
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that?
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
this is just my opinion. most people suck at designing their own program. they just dont understand how to adjust the variables of intensity, frequency, and volume with ones recovery abilities and even how to build in a progression. using a proven program that takes into account all those variables and some good ones even have a deload phase to account for varying recovery abilities. it just makes sense to use a proven program to me.
there even some great programs that allow for one to choose their own accessory lifts with a rep/set scheme to fit their own needs and wants while still following a proven program.
[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
this is just my opinion. most people suck at designing their own program. they just dont understand how to adjust the variables of intensity, frequency, and volume with ones recovery abilities and even how to build in a progression. using a proven program that takes into account all those variables and some good ones even have a deload phase to account for varying recovery abilities. it just makes sense to use a proven program to me. there even some great programs that allow for one to choose their own accessory lifts with a rep/set scheme to fit their own needs and wants while still following a proven program.[/quote]
Yeah I get all that but on T-Nation there are a few buzz words that are thrown around way more than any other forums that I have ever been on. “Protocols” is one…ha and all the various programs that people are on is comical that’s all. Then you got the dudes who do one guys method for bench day and another guys method for squat day and yet another guys method for something else. Thing is if those guys don’t know enough to write their own program then how the f@wk do they know enough to bastardise 3 programs into some sort of hybrid plan for themselves? that’s the irony that I am laughing about… I guess it’s lamne to simply say I worked up on squats and repped that shit out till I puked, then I ate enough food for a small village for recovery. / pointless rant… apologies…
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
There are all these programs because everything works.The problem is, nothing works for ever. Even the shittiest program, you can get 3-6 week of improvement out of.
So, some asshole makes this stuff up, decides it is the best program ever after 6 weeks, and gives it a stupid Russian name. Then novice lifters with the attention span of a goldfish eat it up, run it into the ground, then jump on something else. I am not knocking the lifters that try these programs out, I did a bunch of stupid shit when I first started training for strength as well. Just use some common sense.
If you see a program that looks like one you’ve already done but is a little bit different; it’s the same fucking thing. For example, the base cycle on Dick Bob’s 7x7 (you already did that and felt like shit all the time and got weaker) but, Lift Everyday Guy’s 7x8 program seems just different enough to be the magical combination for strength and maximal chick slaying. Well, it won’t be.
Here is how you can tell if a program is worth doing. Read the program in it’s entirety, read and research the means and methods into how the program came to be, and find people who have used the program with success. Once you have learned everything about it, the final question you need to ask yourself is “Is this something I can do for the next twenty years straight?” Because that is the measure of a good training regime. Something you can stick with and make progress on for the rest of your natural life.
this workout sounds like a fantastic way to tear a muscle
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
that’s the irony that I am laughing about… I guess it’s lamne to simply say I worked up on squats and repped that shit out till I puked, then I ate enough food for a small village for recovery. / pointless rant… apologies…
[/quote]
that seriously made me LOL. ate enough for a small village, ha haaa. good times. 
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
Because without them everybody would have an arms day.
[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
Because without them everybody would have an arms day.[/quote]
4 arms days, and 1 leg day on the day your most likely to not go to the gym like Friday night.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Why are some people on this site so fucking fixated on doing programs with names like Madcow,broz, doggcrap,sheiko, smolov, jerkov and all the rest of the fucking russians haha… are you lacking any imagination that you can’t figure out what works for you and do that? [/quote]
Because without them everybody would have an arms day.[/quote]
4 arms days, and 1 leg day on the day your most likely to not go to the gym like Friday night.[/quote]
And on the rare occasion of showing up on that leg day, it consists of 5x20 calf raises and 5x20 leg extensions. While you’re there might as well do some more arms.