No, I’m acting as if it is their Responsibility…
to whom/what?
I think if sleeping 6 hours a night instead of 8 guaranteed that you would live, say, a 10% shorter life than what you would have otherwise led, most people would take that trade off. That being said, we’re not even dealing with a guarantee like that.
I get 8 hours when I can, but I’d say I get that once a week, if that, and it’s interrupted sleep (dog, 4 year old son, whatever). I don’t think there are a lot of parents of young children out there who are actually getting 8 hours of sleep more often than not.
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Can you define what you mean by responsibility? Do you feel like we are morally obliged to sleep 8 hours a night? Or are you using another meaning for the word?
I said Responsibility. Not Moral Obligation…did you get enough sleep?
It is your responsibility to take care of yourself. It is your responsibility to get enough sleep. some people are irresponsible…so be it.
So far, it doesn’t look like your lifespan decrease, it just gets real shitty towards the end.
some people have kids and don’t get enough sleep…some people have several cars in their yard that don’t run.
I do not get enough sleep, no. Other things take priority in my life right now.
I wasn’t trying to be confrontational, just define the terms used. I am of course responsible for all aspects of my life, because I’m an adult. The way I read it was that you were stating I had a moral obligation to my kids/society/whoever to get 8 hours a night.
Again, your terminology is confusing to me. Do you mean responsibility to mean:
1- I have a moral obligation to do X, ie. I am responsible for bringing up and providing for my children.
2- I take responsibility for the decisions I make in life. Ie. I don’t blame others for my decisions.
In the context of the exchange, I understood it the same, as you were both responding in reference to a study indicating poor health effects from lack of sleep.
Yes, as an adult, you determine how much sleep you get, but it’s far from your only prioritization. To say that it’s a blanket case of irresponsibility is rash. One could very well be irresponsible in their acquiring of 8 hours of sleep in order to be much more responsible in other instances of adulthood.
And, in turn, I only have a responsibility to obtain 8 hours of sleep IF my goal is to not encounter the maladies of lack of sleep. In absence of such goal, no such responsibility exists.
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Considering 2 hours a day more - of being awake - represents ~10% of a day, I’d gladly trade more time ‘living’ now than later in life.
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I believe I read a blog post with a similar sentiment recently. @T3hPwnisher
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But how much sleep do they get?
None, they just use meth instead.
So, basically par for the course with getting old.
The examples of shitty ends for humans who live a ‘full’ lifespan are far more numerous than the non shitty ones. Basically the only way you get to die quickly, and mostly naturally (meaning not a car crash or whatever) and without all that much suffering is if you have a lethal heart attack or aneurism, or something along those lines.
I get what you’re saying, it’s probably accurate that 6 hours of sleep nightly raises the odds of ending up with a handful of specific old-people conditions. But I have doubts as to whether getting less sleep makes you more prone to a shitty end on a more general level. Like, avoiding alzheimers to make sure cancer kills you instead isn’t all that lovely of a prospect.
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People will reject anything that threatens their identity.
I’m still hearing excuses, “I have a dog that keeps me up” “I have kids etc.” "pfft, I don’t even want to live long, old person life sucks anyway!". These are emotional responses, which is alright for the moment, and sound great in an internet forum…we are all humans and I would probably respond in a similar way.
The recent data threatens the identity that some people have “I sleep less than what others do, and less than I should, and I’m FINE”
I don’t expect anyone to openly change their habits via a thread discussion and make it known. But I’m sure you, and others will think about this and at some point may re-evaluate what you prioritize. Good Luck.
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Sure, just like some people will pontificate on internet message boards. Sleep as much as you want dude.
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No they aren’t. “I’d rather spend more time awake under 50, then assembling puzzles when I’m 80” is a very logical comparison. Having children is also a very reasonable answer.
The above statement could be said for the reasons listed in my original point. It’s just more ambiguous. People who make the following statement “I sleep less than others… …and I’m fine” are just vaguely saying I sleep less to do ____. I can’t imagine people sleep less just for the hell of it.
Not sure about others but my sleep patterns are not my identity. lol.
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Genuinely curious: do you have children?
you’re responding to me with this, but I’m not sure why. I accepted your premise as true. I just don’t share your values. I do not believe that sleeping more than I currently do would improve the quality of my life when taken as a whole. But I’m not, in any way, avoiding verifiable points of fact.
You keep talking about this data, but you have yet to present it in this thread. The only link you shared is quite brief, and does not address the consequences of regular 6-hour nights of sleep. So perhaps you can forgive myself and others for not recognizing the gravity of the situation when we haven’t been seen the same data points that have you so alarmed. I, for one, would certainly be willing to change my mind on the subject if you show me data that DOES indicate there is a very high chance that the quality of my life will most likely be substantially affected by my current behavior.
The burden of proof is always on the person who makes the initial claim. Your claim, in a nut shell, is that it is irresponsible to sleep for 6 hours a night, and that there are measurable deleterious effects of this behavior. Then you back up this claim with… well, nothing. Literally nothing. All you said was ‘you’ll get alzheimers’. That’s like if you told me you didn’t wear a condom regularly during sexual intercourse, without any context, and I responded with ‘ENJOY YOUR AIDS!’
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For me it isn’t so much pride or identity, but deeply ingrained behavior/training. I started getting up at 4:00 am every morning since 9 years old.
Now if I’m doing something, working wierd hours or what ever, and don’t get to sleep before then, the day just starts over.
Then there is my brain keeping track of time whether I’m conscious of it or not, and waking up before the alarm goes off so it doesn’t make noise.
It does have some unpleasant short and longer term effects. Its just hard to get around without drugs. Best sleep I’ve gotten in ages was after several months of 1 or 2 hrs. of sleep and started having panic attacks. The doctor gave me ativan, which put me out like a light for a good while, but I will abuse.
I thought there was even a thread based on this podcast, Matthew Walker on Joe Rogan. So I guess now comes the part where everyone changes their stance. Benefits from everyday cognitive, and athletic function, to long term benefits like avoiding alzhiemers and other diseases…
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