If you have the genetics, and you train like an animal, you can look like an animal, regardless of how you lift. This is the secret explanation for why so many guys who train or eat like shit still look jacked or are strong as bulls.
Machine training sucks. Nothing will change that. Pro BB’ers simply throw around heavy weights. But they dedicate their lives to it. And that’s why they’re huge. The above is affectionately known as the meathead manifesto.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
If you have the genetics, and you train like an animal, you can look like an animal, regardless of how you lift. This is the secret explanation for why so many guys who train or eat like shit still look jacked or are strong as bulls.
Machine training sucks. Nothing will change that. Pro BB’ers simply throw around heavy weights. But they dedicate their lives to it. And that’s why they’re huge. The above is affectionately known as the meathead manifesto. [/quote]
wow if only the pros could have a few sessions with you… we’d be seeing 400-pound ripped mr. olympias!
[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
video of a man who is by far the best natural bodybuilder. his physique is almost where ronnie’s is and he’s never even touched muscle enhancing drugs.[/quote]
Never touched muscle enhancing drugs? Now that’s hilarious! Yes, and Greg Valentino’s arms are natural to.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
summa wrote:
Observations.
These are all things we are told to fear. Do drugs and superior genetics trump everything else?
What bodybuilders completely avoid aerobics when contest dieting? There is a also a huge difference between someone advanced cheating a very heavy weight up in order to stress the muscle more and some newbie cheating because he is lifting 50lbs more than he should be. As far as ROM, the goal is to stress the muscle through the part of the movement that does that best. No beginner should be training like an advanced trainer. If your arms aren’t even half the size of his, don’t train like him. [/quote]
2 Names for you Prof:
Dexter Jackson
David Henry
These 2 freaks do little or no cardio at all, and are still ripped to the bone come contest time.
[quote]JACKED71 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
summa wrote:
Observations.
These are all things we are told to fear. Do drugs and superior genetics trump everything else?
What bodybuilders completely avoid aerobics when contest dieting? There is a also a huge difference between someone advanced cheating a very heavy weight up in order to stress the muscle more and some newbie cheating because he is lifting 50lbs more than he should be. As far as ROM, the goal is to stress the muscle through the part of the movement that does that best. No beginner should be training like an advanced trainer. If your arms aren’t even half the size of his, don’t train like him.
2 Names for you Prof:
Dexter Jackson
David Henry
These 2 freaks do little or no cardio at all, and are still ripped to the bone come contest time.[/quote]
Actually, even Dexter jackson now claims to do cardio. I agree, he USED to say that, but he quit holding onto that one. David Henry is military. That means, while he may not do a lot of cardio (because I don’t), he does do some.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
wow if only the pros could have a few sessions with you… we’d be seeing 400-pound ripped mr. olympias!
[/quote]
No, because there are biological limits to the extent of strength and muscular development. Pro BB’ers reach those limits. They simply take a boatload of drugs and a whole lot of sloppy lifting to do it. What I could do is get them there more efficiently.
Everything I see routinely in lifting convinces me that the Meathead Manifesto is true.
People are always wondering how some manage to get so strong or huge despite apparently poor training/eating habbits. They underestimate the impact of massive, life-long dedication to making gains, regardless of the training strategies used.
If there is a single factor that can account for why pro BB’ers are huge, it is not steroid usage, nor genetics, nor training knowledge, but simple dedication. They train for years and years and they love it. If you train for that long, you get into an anabolic zone where basically anything you do in the gym is going to build muscle.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
wow if only the pros could have a few sessions with you… we’d be seeing 400-pound ripped mr. olympias!
No, because there are biological limits to the extent of strength and muscular development. Pro BB’ers reach those limits. They simply take a boatload of drugs and a whole lot of sloppy lifting to do it. What I could do is get them there more efficiently.[/quote]
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?
[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
video of a man who is by far the best natural bodybuilder. his physique is almost where ronnie’s is and he’s never even touched muscle enhancing drugs.[/quote]
natural bodybuilder… yeah ooookkkkay.
Im suprised he doesn’t have alot of injuries with that loose form he uses and the amount of weight he was throwing around(alot of poundage).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?[/quote]
It’s basically “wrong” insofar as it’s inefficient, which is why I mentioned efficiency in my last post. I really don’t think that most pro BB’ers have any understanding of fundamental body mechanics. For example, you’d be hard pressed to explain to a pro BB’er the difference between an anterior-chain full squat and a posterior chain PL-style squat. That’s why most of them don’t squat or squat sub-par weights; they fail to understand the mechanics of the movement.
This inevitably leads to poor form and wasted effort in the gym. When they do “bicep curls” they’re often using way more of their lower backs and anterior delt than their bi’s. That’s a very simple example. You could argue that they probably are aware of this and choose to execute the movement in this fashion due to the “forced reps” principle, but I don’t think that’s the case for every exercise. I think they simply don’t know better in many lifts, such as the squat. Bodybuilders tend to memorize machine-specific movement patterns and exercises rather than building a solid physiological foundation on which to base their knowledge. This is what I call “lifting in the dark” - I’m highly opposed to it. It wasn’t until I understood the basic biomechanical articulations that I stopped fucking around in the gym and started training seriously. In my opinion, it’s the minimum prerequisite for any serious lifter.
A person with a solid understanding of biomechanics can replicate practically any movement with any piece of equipment, or lack thereof. There is no way someone who memorizes equipment-specific movement patterns can keep up.
Pro BB’ers need a good strength coach with a sound understanding of physiological principles as well as knowledge of bodybuilding-related practices. As a former asthetics-only guy who is now switching over to more functional stuff, I fit the bill pretty damn well.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
wow if only the pros could have a few sessions with you… we’d be seeing 400-pound ripped mr. olympias!
No, because there are biological limits to the extent of strength and muscular development. Pro BB’ers reach those limits. They simply take a boatload of drugs and a whole lot of sloppy lifting to do it. What I could do is get them there more efficiently.
Everything I see routinely in lifting convinces me that the Meathead Manifesto is true.
People are always wondering how some manage to get so strong or huge despite apparently poor training/eating habbits. They underestimate the impact of massive, life-long dedication to making gains, regardless of the training strategies used.
If there is a single factor that can account for why pro BB’ers are huge, it is not steroid usage, nor genetics, nor training knowledge, but simple dedication. They train for years and years and they love it. If you train for that long, you get into an anabolic zone where basically anything you do in the gym is going to build muscle.[/quote]
I would like to see some proof of this “anabolic zone”. I know lots of dedicated people, but they aren’t massive.
I dont think your statement is accurate. anybody can get huge taking gear, eating like a horse and working out like a madman…but its a select few that can actually look like the pros. There must be some difference.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?
It’s basically “wrong” insofar as it’s inefficient, which is why I mentioned efficiency in my last post. I really don’t think that most pro BB’ers have any understanding of fundamental body mechanics. For example, you’d be hard pressed to explain to a pro BB’er the difference between an anterior-chain full squat and a posterior chain PL-style squat. That’s why most of them don’t squat or squat sub-par weights; they fail to understand the mechanics of the movement.
This inevitably leads to poor form and wasted effort in the gym. When they do “bicep curls” they’re often using way more of their lower backs and anterior delt than their bi’s. That’s a very simple example. You could argue that they probably are aware of this and choose to execute the movement in this fashion due to the “forced reps” principle, but I don’t think that’s the case for every exercise. I think they simply don’t know better in many lifts, such as the squat. Bodybuilders tend to memorize machine-specific movement patterns and exercises rather than building a solid physiological foundation on which to base their knowledge. This is what I call “lifting in the dark” - I’m highly opposed to it. It wasn’t until I understood the basic biomechanical articulations that I stopped fucking around in the gym and started training seriously. In my opinion, it’s the minimum prerequisite for any serious lifter.
A person with a solid understanding of biomechanics can replicate practically any movement with any piece of equipment, or lack thereof. There is no way someone who memorizes equipment-specific movement patterns can keep up.
Pro BB’ers need a good strength coach with a sound understanding of physiological principles as well as knowledge of bodybuilding-related practices. As a former asthetics-only guy who is now switching over to more functional stuff, I fit the bill pretty damn well.[/quote]
You are so full of it man. Do you honestly think you know more about body building than coleman or cutler? Yeah, these guys need strength coaches for sure.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?
It’s basically “wrong” insofar as it’s inefficient, which is why I mentioned efficiency in my last post. I really don’t think that most pro BB’ers have any understanding of fundamental body mechanics. For example, you’d be hard pressed to explain to a pro BB’er the difference between an anterior-chain full squat and a posterior chain PL-style squat. That’s why most of them don’t squat or squat sub-par weights; they fail to understand the mechanics of the movement.
This inevitably leads to poor form and wasted effort in the gym. When they do “bicep curls” they’re often using way more of their lower backs and anterior delt than their bi’s. That’s a very simple example. You could argue that they probably are aware of this and choose to execute the movement in this fashion due to the “forced reps” principle, but I don’t think that’s the case for every exercise. I think they simply don’t know better in many lifts, such as the squat. Bodybuilders tend to memorize machine-specific movement patterns and exercises rather than building a solid physiological foundation on which to base their knowledge. This is what I call “lifting in the dark” - I’m highly opposed to it. It wasn’t until I understood the basic biomechanical articulations that I stopped fucking around in the gym and started training seriously. In my opinion, it’s the minimum prerequisite for any serious lifter.
A person with a solid understanding of biomechanics can replicate practically any movement with any piece of equipment, or lack thereof. There is no way someone who memorizes equipment-specific movement patterns can keep up.
Pro BB’ers need a good strength coach with a sound understanding of physiological principles as well as knowledge of bodybuilding-related practices. As a former asthetics-only guy who is now switching over to more functional stuff, I fit the bill pretty damn well.[/quote]
Well, goodness, why is it they aren’t running to you for advice so they can win a contest?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
Why does jay always look so sad? I think the only reason ronnie beats him is sheer charisma.
That guy is boring. I have seen him speak at a guest appearance and he will put you to sleep. [/quote]
Seriously, he needs better charisma. Ronnie entertains me on so many levels, while Jay is just… big.
Truth is most pro bodybuilders have several fatal flaws. I remember seeing Kevin Levrone’s video and him saying he only trains when prepping for a show. How fucking lazy is that? Now by right I can’t comment because I haven’t achieved anything these athletes(yes they’re athletes)have accomplished. This is one reason I admired Shawn Ray and Dorian Yates so much. They didn’t do half-ass partial reps, they didn’t slack off training for half a year and they had charisma and enthusiasm. Yes your right it looks like Jay and almost everyother pro for that matter has the personality of cottage cheese. Regardless Jay is an amazing physical specimen and would be better if he quit his whining about how he should be Mr. O, take all that negative energy and pump it into his training.
Do people really not get the difference between a sloppy lifter who doesn’t know what good form is and an advanced lifter who purposefully cheats or uses shorter ROM for a specific purpose? Pro BB’ers know how to do perfect form lifts, for their goals they just aren’t necessary.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?
It’s basically “wrong” insofar as it’s inefficient, which is why I mentioned efficiency in my last post. I really don’t think that most pro BB’ers have any understanding of fundamental body mechanics. For example, you’d be hard pressed to explain to a pro BB’er the difference between an anterior-chain full squat and a posterior chain PL-style squat. That’s why most of them don’t squat or squat sub-par weights; they fail to understand the mechanics of the movement.
This inevitably leads to poor form and wasted effort in the gym. When they do “bicep curls” they’re often using way more of their lower backs and anterior delt than their bi’s. That’s a very simple example. You could argue that they probably are aware of this and choose to execute the movement in this fashion due to the “forced reps” principle, but I don’t think that’s the case for every exercise. I think they simply don’t know better in many lifts, such as the squat. Bodybuilders tend to memorize machine-specific movement patterns and exercises rather than building a solid physiological foundation on which to base their knowledge. This is what I call “lifting in the dark” - I’m highly opposed to it. It wasn’t until I understood the basic biomechanical articulations that I stopped fucking around in the gym and started training seriously. In my opinion, it’s the minimum prerequisite for any serious lifter.
A person with a solid understanding of biomechanics can replicate practically any movement with any piece of equipment, or lack thereof. There is no way someone who memorizes equipment-specific movement patterns can keep up.
Pro BB’ers need a good strength coach with a sound understanding of physiological principles as well as knowledge of bodybuilding-related practices. As a former asthetics-only guy who is now switching over to more functional stuff, I fit the bill pretty damn well.[/quote]
As far as inefficiency is concerned that is a load of shit. I don’t know what size your arms are, but I don’t think it is possible to perform the same ROM, as you or I with 24" arms. Similarly, I don’t think it is even possible to lockout at the top of a pressing movement with 200lb dumbbells.
Oh and Ronnie does squat - a hell of a lot.
Anyone who thinks Jay Cutler hasn’t used drugs is seriously retarded.
Some of you guys who are quick to give advice to Cutler and Colemen better take a very huge step back and think about it.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloppy lifting? If what you are doing does not cause injury and produces results, could you explain how it is wrong? You could get Ronnie Coleman where he is more efficiently?
It’s basically “wrong” insofar as it’s inefficient, which is why I mentioned efficiency in my last post. I really don’t think that most pro BB’ers have any understanding of fundamental body mechanics. For example, you’d be hard pressed to explain to a pro BB’er the difference between an anterior-chain full squat and a posterior chain PL-style squat. That’s why most of them don’t squat or squat sub-par weights; they fail to understand the mechanics of the movement.
This inevitably leads to poor form and wasted effort in the gym. When they do “bicep curls” they’re often using way more of their lower backs and anterior delt than their bi’s. That’s a very simple example. You could argue that they probably are aware of this and choose to execute the movement in this fashion due to the “forced reps” principle, but I don’t think that’s the case for every exercise. I think they simply don’t know better in many lifts, such as the squat. Bodybuilders tend to memorize machine-specific movement patterns and exercises rather than building a solid physiological foundation on which to base their knowledge. This is what I call “lifting in the dark” - I’m highly opposed to it. It wasn’t until I understood the basic biomechanical articulations that I stopped fucking around in the gym and started training seriously. In my opinion, it’s the minimum prerequisite for any serious lifter.
A person with a solid understanding of biomechanics can replicate practically any movement with any piece of equipment, or lack thereof. There is no way someone who memorizes equipment-specific movement patterns can keep up.
Pro BB’ers need a good strength coach with a sound understanding of physiological principles as well as knowledge of bodybuilding-related practices. As a former asthetics-only guy who is now switching over to more functional stuff, I fit the bill pretty damn well.[/quote]
Thats beyond bullshit, i can smell that heap from here, its like the elephants at the ZOO on a hot July day when you start posting on here man.
But its entertaining, please, keep it up ; )
I can’t believe there’s an actual debate going on over whether pro’s know a lot about proper lifting form. In my post, I talked about a fundamental understanding of biomechanics. That is something that pro bodybuilders simply do not have. This is abundantly obvious from watching any of their videos and listening to them describe their training.
Everything I posted was true, particularly regarding the way that pro’s acquire training knowledge: through memorization of various anecdotes acquired through the years, rather than a solid, foundational basis in kinesiology or anything else.
[quote]ExNole wrote:
Do people really not get the difference between a sloppy lifter who doesn’t know what good form is and an advanced lifter who purposefully cheats or uses shorter ROM for a specific purpose? Pro BB’ers know how to do perfect form lifts, for their goals they just aren’t necessary. [/quote]
Then why is it that the number of pro’s who do free weight squats can be counted on one hand, and the ones who squat usually use 1/4 ROM? They obviously don’t understand the movement. This is just one example. The form utilized by quite a few pro’s in many lifts is so ridiculous and inefficient (aided by momentum) that they can’t possibly be achieving any real muscular gains from it.
Their solution is to train all day, every day. That’s what I’m talking about when I refer to inefficiency. For example, what Johnnie Jackson calls “dumbell back rows”, is actually a combination row/back extension/deadlift movement in one. What’s the problem with this? Well, he rows up to 200, I believe. He’s an 800-lb. puller. How much possible lat stimulation could he be getting from a 200-lb. DB row when he’s heaving the weight up using the leg and lower-back drive of an 800-lb. DL?
[quote]baretta wrote:
I would like to see some proof of this “anabolic zone”. I know lots of dedicated people, but they aren’t massive.
I dont think your statement is accurate. anybody can get huge taking gear, eating like a horse and working out like a madman…but its a select few that can actually look like the pros. There must be some difference.[/quote]
Please refer to my first post on the subject:
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
If you have the genetics, and you train like an animal, you can look like an animal, regardless of how you lift.[/quote]
I never stated that anybody could look like a pro. However, I did imply precisely what you are suggesting: that anybody who trains his ass off for years and eats big can GET big.
In terms of the anabolic zone and dedication…there are different levels of the latter. Pro-level dedication is above and beyond anything you would see in a typical gym. They literally devote their lives to it, usually starting in their high school weight rooms. This is the essence of the meathead mentality which produces gains despite sloppy training.
Understanding the anabolic zone is pretty simple…the body adapts to what it is subjected to. If you spend 2 decades of your life in a perpetual bulk, as is common for a dedicated meathead, you’re not going to go back to being skinny overnight if you suddenly slack off the diet or training. Or in a month. Or even a year. That’s why some pro’s are said to be able to gain simply by looking at weights. It’s not just the genetics & roids that are responsible for it. They are in the zone.
What is the natural build of most pro BB’ers? Heavy-set dudes, quite a few of them on the fat side.