Jade Helm - US Military Operating Within the US

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

speak softly and carry a big stick. If that does not resonate with you, you’re hopeless. [/quote]

What do you think the “big stick” is? For crying out loud, it’s massive military spending.

Sheesh, what irony to quote Teddy Roosevelt who is noted for dramatically increasing military spending and presence.
[/quote]

Why in the world did you quote me when I didn’t say that? [/quote]

Thought you did. All I did was copy and paste. If I fooked up you have my apologies.[/quote]

No worries.

Aggv said that.

Way to derail my thread guys.

https://eksgroup.csod.com/ats/careersite/JobDetails.aspx?id=149

This is a job offer for citizens to participate in the Jade Helm games. They will be simulating strategies for rounding up and detaining “dissidents”.

Here is a related video:

USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.

Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.

If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.[/quote]

Succinctly, to defend and develop American interests and the world order that the United States created. It is assuredly worth the cost. American military might underpins the international economic system.[/quote]

Absolutely agreed sir[/quote]

That’s what I like to see: agreeing that it is worth it! Worth what? Well, worth “it,” of course. A blanket “it.” Not only that, but it is worth it to defend and develop “American” interests; not “Americans’” interests, but “American” interests. Gooooooooo, Team Freedom!
[/quote]

The preeminent charge of a government is to defend its citizens. The state is a collective entity, ergo, American is the appropriate qualifier to interests. High politics is decidedly guided by the ethics of utilitarianism. Given the vast geography of the United States, its enormous economic wherewithal, and its large population, its security organs are correspondingly large and well funded. US military might underpins the liberal economic and political international systems you ostensibly are so fond of, in spite of your apparent nescience of them. A superpower naturally has global interests, and thus requires a globe trotting military to defend and develop it’s economic, diplomatic, and security interests. No, it isn’t about “freedom”, which I didn’t so much as hint at. It’s about power, prosperity, and stability. Americans are largely uncomfortable with and ignorant of the systemic imperatives of the anarchic world order.[/quote]

I agree with Bismark’s paragraph about the military and it’s function. After all, the thing that ultimately underwrites our fiat currency is nuclear fucking weapons. But I digress. While I agree the military is needed to shore up our national interests abroad, I am very uncomfortable with them being deployed AT HOME and practicing to detain Americans.

Gun owning, conservative, christian, Americans who believe in the Constitution are the greatest threat to our government as it currently exists. I agree with that statement. I don’t think our government, as it currently exists, will agree to go quietly.

I respect that this is your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. I will respectfully bow out of your thread.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.

Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.

If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.[/quote]

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I respect that this is your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. I will respectfully bow out of your thread.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.

Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.

If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.[/quote]

[/quote]

I don’t want to kick you out of the thread, bro! Challenge my ideas! That’s why I posted them, because I WANT to be told I’m a fucking dumbass, and here’s why: XYZ. I totally respect your opinion and really want to hear it.

All I was trying to say (at 11:00 at night tired as fuck) is if you want to talk about fiscal policy, start a thread about fiscal policy. Just don’t derail MY thread about ABC idea the third post in and change the subject.

I know threads tend to change subjects and evolve, but that usually happens at least a page or two in after a few opinions the OP have been expressed - after the incubation period has “expired”, which is no harm no foul. Just let it take off a bit before the derail, that’s all.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=9e4b05061ac6a7f71fcbc0cb9dea0791&tab=core&_cview=0

Homeland security wants to buy 62 MILLION rounds…

WHY?

Why are they buying 7.62 x 39 if not to remove that available ammo from the open market?

Even Social Security is arming themselves as if they are about to fight a war… Are they afraid a bunch of old people are gonna come at them?

Why is every agency under the control of the Executive branch stockpiling ammunition? What logical reason do they have to do that?

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I respect that this is your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. I will respectfully bow out of your thread.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.

Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.

If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.[/quote]

[/quote]
I don’t want to kick you out of the thread, bro! Challenge my ideas! That’s why I posted them, because I WANT to be told I’m a fucking dumbass, and here’s why: XYZ. I totally respect your opinion and really want to hear it.

All I was trying to say (at 11:00 at night tired as fuck) is if you want to talk about fiscal policy, start a thread about fiscal policy. Just don’t derail MY thread about ABC idea the third post in and change the subject.

I know threads tend to change subjects and evolve, but that usually happens at least a page or two in after a few opinions the OP have been expressed - after the incubation period has “expired”, which is no harm no foul. Just let it take off a bit before the derail, that’s all.[/quote]

I tell ya what, I’ll give you my point of view as a relatively young veteran and FWIW I think it’s important to question what our government is doing.

  1. High level: There are something like a million active duty service members across all branches and like 2-3 million in total, iirc. A large percentage of these folks are pencil pushers not trigger pullers. Marines have a moto, “Every Marine is a rifleman.” It’s true, we’re all trained riflemen, but a lot of the pencil pushers (I was an aviation supply accountant…) would be useless in a conflict let alone a war. I had Sergeants that failed a relatively easy rifle range certification because, quite frankly, they should have never “earned” a uniform. If I’m not mistaken we’re the only branch where everyone trains on a basic weapon system (M16A2). So that 2-3 million is really less, imo, and that’s assuming the reservist would actually show up.

That said, there are some 300+ million Americans many of which are armed and all of which would be fighting for their homes and families. That alone is a pretty big check to government power.

Not to mention the Navy would be relatively useless against the vast majority of America (Other than the East and West coasts and the Gulf states).

Not to mention we could pretty easily fuck up military supply lines while being able to cross into Mexico and Canada almost effortlessly for our own aide.

To re-iterate I am 100% convinced a lot if not the vast majority of service members would not fight Americans on American soil. I don’t believe military leaders would follow an order to do so from the CIC and I don’t believe personnel from Privates to Generals would follow an order to do so from higher command. I just don’t see it happening short of Civil War part II in which case the military would be splintered anyway.

  1. U.S. military personnel train almost exclusively on American soil. Every boot camp is in the continental United States. We fly sorties over U.S. soil all the time. I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. where hundreds of flight hours were logged all over the southerner portion of South Carolina & Georgia. When I went through combat training we literally practiced clearing full scale towns built on Camp Lejune. This training taking place on U.S. soil really isn’t that surprising or unnerving to me.

  2. You’re concerned the spec op community will be used against U.S. citizens. The concern is noted; however, again these are Americans that take their oath very seriously.

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

Do you think Marcus Luttrell would roll into Dallas and capture an American citizen? Do you think the late Chris Kyle would of done the same? There is no way it would happen. No way.

I believe this is simply a new training protocol that fits our updated outlook on warfare. It will train our spec ops community to take HVT’s quickly and effectively in places like Iran, Pakistan, Syria, North Korea, etc…

You and I, we agree on a lot of things. The militarization of the police is out of control. Small town U.S.A does not need a SWAT team. The blatant infringement of the 4th amendment during the Boston marathon bombing is unacceptable in my book.

That said, based on what you’ve written in here and in the past, it comes across to me like you view the U.S. military as just another tool of an intrusive government. My perspective, probably because I served, is that the military is made up of American just like you and me. Just like everyone on T-Nation really. Some are asshole, some are idiots, some are in terrible shape, but some are very intelligent, some are highly patriotic, some are gun tooting constitutionalists, etc… Imo, the might of the U.S. military is only as good as the men and women operating the various weapons systems. An F-18, an Apache, and an M16A2 all have to be operated by us.

The government would have to convince Americans in uniform to go against everything it is to be an American and I just don’t see it happening.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=9e4b05061ac6a7f71fcbc0cb9dea0791&tab=core&_cview=0

Homeland security wants to buy 62 MILLION rounds…

WHY?

Why are they buying 7.62 x 39 if not to remove that available ammo from the open market?

Even Social Security is arming themselves as if they are about to fight a war… Are they afraid a bunch of old people are gonna come at them?

Why is every agency under the control of the Executive branch stockpiling ammunition? What logical reason do they have to do that? [/quote]

AC, I am aware of this but not well versed in the story. What is the governmental line on this? There must have been some rationale released for this. Googling from work only gets me infowars style reporting on this.

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=9e4b05061ac6a7f71fcbc0cb9dea0791&tab=core&_cview=0

Homeland security wants to buy 62 MILLION rounds…

WHY?

Why are they buying 7.62 x 39 if not to remove that available ammo from the open market?

Even Social Security is arming themselves as if they are about to fight a war… Are they afraid a bunch of old people are gonna come at them?

Why is every agency under the control of the Executive branch stockpiling ammunition? What logical reason do they have to do that? [/quote]

AC, I am aware of this but not well versed in the story. What is the governmental line on this? There must have been some rationale released for this. Googling from work only gets me infowars style reporting on this. [/quote]

The article says the ammo is for training purposes and the contract is to save money.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The article mentions .223 ammo not 7.62 x 39.

I’d be amazed if Homeland Security was buying the latter.[/quote]
I’m glad I’m not the only one who read it that way.

[quote]NickViar wrote:
^ This guy’s REALLY smart, folks. His use of variations of the word “nescient” in every other post on an internet message board make that obvious.[/quote]

Cogent rebuttal. I concede defeat.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

Gun owning, conservative, christian, Americans who believe in the Constitution are the greatest threat to our government as it currently exists. I agree with that statement. I don’t think our government, as it currently exists, will agree to go quietly.[/quote]

I agree with this, however i dont see them starting an armed conflict with our government. I could see minorities attempting something and using false information from politicians/media as a motive.(Ferguson riots anyone?)

The government would use drones to take out any key figures in a rebellion. Which they are probably already using over US soil to monitor what that cant control through the internet/nsa.

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

Gun owning, conservative, christian, Americans who believe in the Constitution are the greatest threat to our government as it currently exists. I agree with that statement. I don’t think our government, as it currently exists, will agree to go quietly.[/quote]

I agree with this, however i dont see them starting an armed conflict with our government. I could see minorities attempting something and using false information from politicians/media as a motive.(Ferguson riots anyone?)

The government would use drones to take out any key figures in a rebellion. Which they are probably already using over US soil to monitor what that cant control through the internet/nsa. [/quote]

While the Left is in power, the thing it covets the most is an excuse to force everyone to do it their way. The way to accomplish that is via Martial Law. The only way to get to Martial Law is respond to an emergency. So they do everything they can to manufacture an emergency. (i.e. alienate allies, foster civil unrest and racial tension, get as many people as possible dependent upon the government via health care, food stamps, immigration and welfare). Once a critical mass of people are dependent upon the government, they will have the freedom to make some “riskier” moves. Moves such as declaring curfews, martial law, FEMA camps, check points and DISARMAMENT of citizens. Because as we all know, under martial law, civil rights are suspended. If you assume communications will be “down” (they now control the internet, remember?) they will have free reign to “disappear” whoever they choose.

That’s what they are practicing for.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. U.S. military personnel train almost exclusively on American soil. Every boot camp is in the continental United States. We fly sorties over U.S. soil all the time. I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. where hundreds of flight hours were logged all over the southerner portion of South Carolina & Georgia. When I went through combat training we literally practiced clearing full scale towns built on Camp Lejune. This training taking place on U.S. soil really isn’t that surprising or unnerving to me.
    [/quote]

This I agree 100% with. This is where we do 99.99% of all our training. We train for Afghanistan and Iraq in the Cali and Nevada deserts, among other places, and we train for urban warfare like USMC said.

The part I have a real problem with is the whole mock up detainment of US citizens. I don’t understand what purpose that serves in a wargame unless you’re looking at a way to break them out ala the “Great Raid” or something. That bothers me more than just a little. That bothers me a lot.

Chicago police already disappear people. Which, if you’re familiar with anything Chicago, shouldn’t surprise you. It should really piss you the fuck off though.

Story corroborated in The Atlantic as well.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Chicago police already disappear people. Which, if you’re familiar with anything Chicago, shouldn’t surprise you. It should really piss you the fuck off though.

Story corroborated in The Atlantic as well.[/quote]

And where is our president from again? Oh, that’s right…

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The article mentions .223 ammo not 7.62 x 39.

I’d be amazed if Homeland Security was buying the latter.[/quote]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3053841/posts

There are only two reasons I can think of.

  1. To raise the price of said caliber of ammunition so that the average American can’t afford as much of it.

  2. To use this ammo to kill Americans so that they have plausible deniability - “we use .223/5.56mm, it COULDN’T have been OUR troops”…

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. U.S. military personnel train almost exclusively on American soil. Every boot camp is in the continental United States. We fly sorties over U.S. soil all the time. I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. where hundreds of flight hours were logged all over the southerner portion of South Carolina & Georgia. When I went through combat training we literally practiced clearing full scale towns built on Camp Lejune. This training taking place on U.S. soil really isn’t that surprising or unnerving to me.
    [/quote]

This I agree 100% with. This is where we do 99.99% of all our training. We train for Afghanistan and Iraq in the Cali and Nevada deserts, among other places, and we train for urban warfare like USMC said.

The part I have a real problem with is the whole mock up detainment of US citizens. I don’t understand what purpose that serves in a wargame unless you’re looking at a way to break them out ala the “Great Raid” or something. That bothers me more than just a little. That bothers me a lot.[/quote]

I just wanted to emphasize that you as well are bothered by the US special forces training how to detain US citizens.

If I’m not crazy, what possible purpose for that training could there be?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I respect that this is your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. I will respectfully bow out of your thread.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.

Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.

If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.[/quote]

[/quote]
I don’t want to kick you out of the thread, bro! Challenge my ideas! That’s why I posted them, because I WANT to be told I’m a fucking dumbass, and here’s why: XYZ. I totally respect your opinion and really want to hear it.

All I was trying to say (at 11:00 at night tired as fuck) is if you want to talk about fiscal policy, start a thread about fiscal policy. Just don’t derail MY thread about ABC idea the third post in and change the subject.

I know threads tend to change subjects and evolve, but that usually happens at least a page or two in after a few opinions the OP have been expressed - after the incubation period has “expired”, which is no harm no foul. Just let it take off a bit before the derail, that’s all.[/quote]

I tell ya what, I’ll give you my point of view as a relatively young veteran and FWIW I think it’s important to question what our government is doing.

  1. High level: There are something like a million active duty service members across all branches and like 2-3 million in total, iirc. A large percentage of these folks are pencil pushers not trigger pullers. Marines have a moto, “Every Marine is a rifleman.” It’s true, we’re all trained riflemen, but a lot of the pencil pushers (I was an aviation supply accountant…) would be useless in a conflict let alone a war. I had Sergeants that failed a relatively easy rifle range certification because, quite frankly, they should have never “earned” a uniform. If I’m not mistaken we’re the only branch where everyone trains on a basic weapon system (M16A2). So that 2-3 million is really less, imo, and that’s assuming the reservist would actually show up.

That said, there are some 300+ million Americans many of which are armed and all of which would be fighting for their homes and families. That alone is a pretty big check to government power.

Not to mention the Navy would be relatively useless against the vast majority of America (Other than the East and West coasts and the Gulf states).

Not to mention we could pretty easily fuck up military supply lines while being able to cross into Mexico and Canada almost effortlessly for our own aide.

To re-iterate I am 100% convinced a lot if not the vast majority of service members would not fight Americans on American soil. I don’t believe military leaders would follow an order to do so from the CIC and I don’t believe personnel from Privates to Generals would follow an order to do so from higher command. I just don’t see it happening short of Civil War part II in which case the military would be splintered anyway.

  1. U.S. military personnel train almost exclusively on American soil. Every boot camp is in the continental United States. We fly sorties over U.S. soil all the time. I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. where hundreds of flight hours were logged all over the southerner portion of South Carolina & Georgia. When I went through combat training we literally practiced clearing full scale towns built on Camp Lejune. This training taking place on U.S. soil really isn’t that surprising or unnerving to me.

  2. You’re concerned the spec op community will be used against U.S. citizens. The concern is noted; however, again these are Americans that take their oath very seriously.

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

Do you think Marcus Luttrell would roll into Dallas and capture an American citizen? Do you think the late Chris Kyle would of done the same? There is no way it would happen. No way.

I believe this is simply a new training protocol that fits our updated outlook on warfare. It will train our spec ops community to take HVT’s quickly and effectively in places like Iran, Pakistan, Syria, North Korea, etc…

You and I, we agree on a lot of things. The militarization of the police is out of control. Small town U.S.A does not need a SWAT team. The blatant infringement of the 4th amendment during the Boston marathon bombing is unacceptable in my book.

That said, based on what you’ve written in here and in the past, it comes across to me like you view the U.S. military as just another tool of an intrusive government. My perspective, probably because I served, is that the military is made up of American just like you and me. Just like everyone on T-Nation really. Some are asshole, some are idiots, some are in terrible shape, but some are very intelligent, some are highly patriotic, some are gun tooting constitutionalists, etc… Imo, the might of the U.S. military is only as good as the men and women operating the various weapons systems. An F-18, an Apache, and an M16A2 all have to be operated by us.

The government would have to convince Americans in uniform to go against everything it is to be an American and I just don’t see it happening.

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Not if they don’t use US troops to do it. The obama administration contracted Academi (formerly XE, formerly Blackwater) to work for the CIA (250 million) as well as to provide security for the State Department (via an Academi subsidiary) for 92 million. In 2014 Academi was bought by the Constellis Holdings (along with Triple Canopy, Strategic Social, Tidewater, NSPS, IDS and several other international security companies. They are all now controlled by one entity… Founded by former Delta Force members. They are all essentially mercenaries.

I wonder if any of these groups are “unofficially” taking part in Jade Helm?

I’ve found a few conspiracy links, but nothing that you people would consider a “legitimate” source.