[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I respect that this is your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. I will respectfully bow out of your thread.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I do not fear the US army invading Texas, bro. I fear that our special forces are being trained to round up people who have the audacity to speak out against our government. This is a pretext for such training. If someone is labeled a “terrorist” or a member of a “terrorist cell”, I don’t think any member of the armed forces would think twice about detaining them. It started with the Patriot act, and has continued on with several other executive orders under obama. I’ve linked them before, I’m too tired to right now. It basically gives him power to declare martial law any time he wants to, and now our military is practicing on American soil to round up American citizens.
I’ll be the first to say that I’m a little on the ‘fringe’ with my political beliefs. But I don’t subscribe to 911 conspiracies or anything like that. However, if the US has no plans for martial law, WHY ARE THEY PRACTICING? If you don’t think we are a black swan event away from some serious turmoil then you are kidding yourself.
Look at history. There is nothing new under the sun. These things happen quite frequently and the common denominator is this: the people caught unaware swore that it could never happen here… I would LOVE to think that were true. I would love to think that my kids are going to grow in a nice safe place with rainbows and sugarplums and that the debt/deficit will magically disappear, racial tensions will go away and progressive policies would be exposed for the bullshit that they are. But then I snap out of it. I realize that the federal government exist for one thing and one thing only: to support and protect ITSELF and the interests it is beholden to. And that’s not you or me.
If you guys want to blow this off as nothing at all and talk about entitlements vs military spending, knock your self out. But start your own fucking thread about it, and stop hijacking mine before it even gets off the ground. This thread is about how you feel about the United States military operating on US soil, doing a training exercise designed to subdue AMERICANS. If that’s not political or world issuey enough for you, then let it die. But don’t disrespect me by dismissing it and just changing the subject three posts in. Start your own thread for that.[/quote]
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I don’t want to kick you out of the thread, bro! Challenge my ideas! That’s why I posted them, because I WANT to be told I’m a fucking dumbass, and here’s why: XYZ. I totally respect your opinion and really want to hear it.
All I was trying to say (at 11:00 at night tired as fuck) is if you want to talk about fiscal policy, start a thread about fiscal policy. Just don’t derail MY thread about ABC idea the third post in and change the subject.
I know threads tend to change subjects and evolve, but that usually happens at least a page or two in after a few opinions the OP have been expressed - after the incubation period has “expired”, which is no harm no foul. Just let it take off a bit before the derail, that’s all.[/quote]
I tell ya what, I’ll give you my point of view as a relatively young veteran and FWIW I think it’s important to question what our government is doing.
- High level: There are something like a million active duty service members across all branches and like 2-3 million in total, iirc. A large percentage of these folks are pencil pushers not trigger pullers. Marines have a moto, “Every Marine is a rifleman.” It’s true, we’re all trained riflemen, but a lot of the pencil pushers (I was an aviation supply accountant…) would be useless in a conflict let alone a war. I had Sergeants that failed a relatively easy rifle range certification because, quite frankly, they should have never “earned” a uniform. If I’m not mistaken we’re the only branch where everyone trains on a basic weapon system (M16A2). So that 2-3 million is really less, imo, and that’s assuming the reservist would actually show up.
That said, there are some 300+ million Americans many of which are armed and all of which would be fighting for their homes and families. That alone is a pretty big check to government power.
Not to mention the Navy would be relatively useless against the vast majority of America (Other than the East and West coasts and the Gulf states).
Not to mention we could pretty easily fuck up military supply lines while being able to cross into Mexico and Canada almost effortlessly for our own aide.
To re-iterate I am 100% convinced a lot if not the vast majority of service members would not fight Americans on American soil. I don’t believe military leaders would follow an order to do so from the CIC and I don’t believe personnel from Privates to Generals would follow an order to do so from higher command. I just don’t see it happening short of Civil War part II in which case the military would be splintered anyway.
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U.S. military personnel train almost exclusively on American soil. Every boot camp is in the continental United States. We fly sorties over U.S. soil all the time. I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. where hundreds of flight hours were logged all over the southerner portion of South Carolina & Georgia. When I went through combat training we literally practiced clearing full scale towns built on Camp Lejune. This training taking place on U.S. soil really isn’t that surprising or unnerving to me.
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You’re concerned the spec op community will be used against U.S. citizens. The concern is noted; however, again these are Americans that take their oath very seriously.
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
Do you think Marcus Luttrell would roll into Dallas and capture an American citizen? Do you think the late Chris Kyle would of done the same? There is no way it would happen. No way.
I believe this is simply a new training protocol that fits our updated outlook on warfare. It will train our spec ops community to take HVT’s quickly and effectively in places like Iran, Pakistan, Syria, North Korea, etc…
You and I, we agree on a lot of things. The militarization of the police is out of control. Small town U.S.A does not need a SWAT team. The blatant infringement of the 4th amendment during the Boston marathon bombing is unacceptable in my book.
That said, based on what you’ve written in here and in the past, it comes across to me like you view the U.S. military as just another tool of an intrusive government. My perspective, probably because I served, is that the military is made up of American just like you and me. Just like everyone on T-Nation really. Some are asshole, some are idiots, some are in terrible shape, but some are very intelligent, some are highly patriotic, some are gun tooting constitutionalists, etc… Imo, the might of the U.S. military is only as good as the men and women operating the various weapons systems. An F-18, an Apache, and an M16A2 all have to be operated by us.
The government would have to convince Americans in uniform to go against everything it is to be an American and I just don’t see it happening.
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Not if they don’t use US troops to do it. The obama administration contracted Academi (formerly XE, formerly Blackwater) to work for the CIA (250 million) as well as to provide security for the State Department (via an Academi subsidiary) for 92 million. In 2014 Academi was bought by the Constellis Holdings (along with Triple Canopy, Strategic Social, Tidewater, NSPS, IDS and several other international security companies. They are all now controlled by one entity… Founded by former Delta Force members. They are all essentially mercenaries.
I wonder if any of these groups are “unofficially” taking part in Jade Helm?
I’ve found a few conspiracy links, but nothing that you people would consider a “legitimate” source.