Jade Helm - US Military Operating Within the US

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I mean I honestly don’t get it. The right has so many people who talk about inefficient government and government waste. Yet they IGNORE it when it comes to defense. [/quote]

I know you weren’t addressing me; however, my take is that defense spending is one of the few legitimate areas where the government is authorized by the people to spend money. So, imo, they should.

How much is another matter altogether.

[/quote]

I’m not against defense spending, I just honestly don’t get it. The right goes nuts over so many things the government does but gets this huge hard on over the military as if examining this area is something that can’t happen. And the idea that we need more money in this area is doubly mind blowing to me. [/quote]

I mean, I get you perspective. To me it is equal mind blowing that some on the left think we need to spend more money on welfare (not saying you just giving an example). So, I get the frustration.

My only point is that of all the things we spend money on the military is one we should actually spend money on. I concede we could spend less I just don’t understand why it’s always the focal point of spending reduction (well I do get it. It’s because old people vote in numbers).

I look at it this way. I have a $3,500/month mortgage (social security), a $800/month car note (medicare), $5,000 in credit card debt (medicaid), and a $30/month 2-DVD Netflix membership (defense spending). Cutting my 2-DVD membership to a 1-DVD membership doesn’t actually address my real problem.

[quote]Aggv wrote:
You’re hopeless, Russia and China are already testing the waters to see how much they can get away with. But let’s cut our defense spending, that will work out well in 10-15 years… [/quote]

Lol if you say so. How could I possibly argue with “trust me you’ll regret it!”

Can you show me your vast foreign policy credentials?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I mean I honestly don’t get it. The right has so many people who talk about inefficient government and government waste. Yet they IGNORE it when it comes to defense. [/quote]

I know you weren’t addressing me; however, my take is that defense spending is one of the few legitimate areas where the government is authorized by the people to spend money. So, imo, they should.

How much is another matter altogether.

[/quote]

I’m not against defense spending, I just honestly don’t get it. The right goes nuts over so many things the government does but gets this huge hard on over the military as if examining this area is something that can’t happen. And the idea that we need more money in this area is doubly mind blowing to me. [/quote]

I mean, I get you perspective. To me it is equal mind blowing that some on the left think we need to spend more money on welfare (not saying you just giving an example). So, I get the frustration.

My only point is that of all the things we spend money on the military is one we should actually spend money on. I concede we could spend less I just don’t understand why it’s always the focal point of spending reduction (well I do get it. It’s because old people vote in numbers).

I look at it this way. I have a $3,500/month mortgage (social security), a $800/month car note (medicare), $5,000 in credit card debt (medicaid), and a $30/month 2-DVD Netflix membership (defense spending). Cutting my 2-DVD membership to a 1-DVD membership doesn’t actually address my real problem.
[/quote]

It’s a huge piece of the U.S. budget though. It’s not like cutting your 2 DVD membership to one. We’re talking about 1/5 of what we spend on.

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I mean I honestly don’t get it. The right has so many people who talk about inefficient government and government waste. Yet they IGNORE it when it comes to defense. [/quote]

I know you weren’t addressing me; however, my take is that defense spending is one of the few legitimate areas where the government is authorized by the people to spend money. So, imo, they should.

How much is another matter altogether.

[/quote]

I’m not against defense spending, I just honestly don’t get it. The right goes nuts over so many things the government does but gets this huge hard on over the military as if examining this area is something that can’t happen. And the idea that we need more money in this area is doubly mind blowing to me. [/quote]

I mean, I get you perspective. To me it is equal mind blowing that some on the left think we need to spend more money on welfare (not saying you just giving an example). So, I get the frustration.

My only point is that of all the things we spend money on the military is one we should actually spend money on. I concede we could spend less I just don’t understand why it’s always the focal point of spending reduction (well I do get it. It’s because old people vote in numbers).

I look at it this way. I have a $3,500/month mortgage (social security), a $800/month car note (medicare), $5,000 in credit card debt (medicaid), and a $30/month 2-DVD Netflix membership (defense spending). Cutting my 2-DVD membership to a 1-DVD membership doesn’t actually address my real problem.
[/quote]

It’s a huge piece of the U.S. budget though. It’s not like cutting your 2 DVD membership to one. We’re talking about 1/5 of what we spend on. [/quote]

Ya, lol, I was exaggerating bit… Anyway it should be more like 25%-50% of the budget, imo, because the budget should only be made up of a handful of items.

How did this become a “government spending and waste” thread so quickly? The topic is the United States preparing to make war with its citizens. I guess that’s not as worrisome as whether the U.S. spends $999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999.99 on sending members of the military on extended vacations to shitholes vs. spending that money on Americans that refuse to take care of themselves(or, much more rarely, can’t).

My bad…

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I mean I honestly don’t get it. The right has so many people who talk about inefficient government and government waste. Yet they IGNORE it when it comes to defense. [/quote]

I know you weren’t addressing me; however, my take is that defense spending is one of the few legitimate areas where the government is authorized by the people to spend money. So, imo, they should.

How much is another matter altogether.

[/quote]

I’m not against defense spending, I just honestly don’t get it. The right goes nuts over so many things the government does but gets this huge hard on over the military as if examining this area is something that can’t happen. And the idea that we need more money in this area is doubly mind blowing to me. [/quote]

I mean, I get you perspective. To me it is equal mind blowing that some on the left think we need to spend more money on welfare (not saying you just giving an example). So, I get the frustration.

My only point is that of all the things we spend money on the military is one we should actually spend money on. I concede we could spend less I just don’t understand why it’s always the focal point of spending reduction (well I do get it. It’s because old people vote in numbers).

I look at it this way. I have a $3,500/month mortgage (social security), a $800/month car note (medicare), $5,000 in credit card debt (medicaid), and a $30/month 2-DVD Netflix membership (defense spending). Cutting my 2-DVD membership to a 1-DVD membership doesn’t actually address my real problem.
[/quote]

It’s a huge piece of the U.S. budget though. It’s not like cutting your 2 DVD membership to one. We’re talking about 1/5 of what we spend on. [/quote]

Sure, but even if we cut 100% of the military budget, we’d still be overspending and we’d still be in a deficit.

I agree that we need to be more efficient in our military spending. To me this looks like every other corporate optimization look, only with the largest organization on earth (ok, in our country). However this is distinct from simply spending “less”.

There is so much waste in the system that if we simply spend “less” we will decrease our effectiveness at R/D, and training as a fighting force because we haven’t cut the waste out of the system, we’ve just decreased the amount of money we put into the wasteful process. As most engineers will tell you, efficiency is the name of the game in most cases. You want it to cost less? More efficient design, power use, etc. Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.

This ends up probably spending “less” in the long run as well, but it’s a difference in approach and a vast difference in defensive capabilities, if you follow me.

Your comments on politicians are noted and agreed on.

I would favor freezing the military budget in real terms, possibly with a provision accounting for inflation year to year, and then embarking on a huge project to streamline the waste. Then I would cut the waste out and cut that from the budget. I would not favor active cuts until a solid, practical approach was in place to make sure we know exactly what and where to slice and dice.

Now, back on topic–this is incredibly disturbing. I don’t know the details on this but I don’t particularly need to. We’ve run wargames many times in the States, but never with Home states as potential adversaries.

Still, this news source and headline is sensational enough for my spidey sense to tingle and say “I wonder what the actual details of this wargame are, because this sounds like hack journalism”

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.[/quote]

Succinctly, to defend and develop American interests and the world order that the United States created. It is assuredly worth the cost. American military might underpins the international economic system.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

The Federal Government deems gun owners, veterans, constitutionalists, christians, and pretty much anyone who loves freedom as “dangerous” and “potential domestic terrorists”. Napolitano stands by controversial report - Washington Times There’s been an escalation in the militarization of police forces, government agencies (controlled by the Executive branch) stockpiling ammunition and supplies. Police brutality is on the rise. And now, the largest public military exercise EVER (Jade Helm 15) is taking place. Military and police training to combat civil disobedience.

The 8 week “exercise” is that they are declaring Texas and Utah as “hostile states” and are going to take them back militarily, with covert operations and intelligence gathering (i.e. SPYING on citizens and encouraging 1984 like behavior). Nine states are participating.

Not only are they using Special Operational Forces, but they are also using JPRA (Joint Personnel Recovery Agency). JPRA maintains a series of schools who’s specialties include: Prisoners of War, hostages and DETAINEES (emphasis added), evasion and escape, search and rescue, prison survival techniques, geography and cartography, natural science, ethnology and country studies, terrorism, military and naval science, natural and emergency medicine.

To the average person, the use of the term “detainee” would not raise an eyebrow, but to someone who is in tune with the connotations and denotations of military parlance, the term “detainee” holds a very specific meaning, to include incarceration of political prisoners (e.g. dissenters aka enemy combatants aka terrorists aka anyone the STATE points a finger at) with no due process.

Bottom line is the US military is being run through a HUGE game scenario where the battle is on US soil and the “enemy” is US…

Does this make anyone else a wee bit uncomfortable?

[/quote]

Have so much catching up to do on this site, I guess this is a good place to start.

It is fucking asinine that some of the senior members of this forum have decided to basically exclude AC’s post and create yet another thread regarding gov’t spending, US vs US bullshit.
It took exactly one fucking post before this went from discussing something that should be freightening and revolting for the American people, to something that is designed to create disagreement and separation of the people.

As to your question, It makes me incredibly uncomfortable and helps put stock into those “conspiracy theorists” who have been saying the gov’t is against us for years.

Why do people train? To prepare…nothing less

Well, Phoenix44e, I think the furor over the training exercises borderline conspiracy theory and the Washington Times link is 6 years old, so…

I don’t believe police brutality is on the rise, we just see it more because of the relatively new YouTube world we live in. I would need to see some evidence of this.

Do you know what I thought about when I first read about Jade Helm? Iran.

I’ve said on here more than once I do not believe the military will ever turn on the U.S. short of a civil war or coup. Neither of which I believe is all that likely and I’d wage my life on that stance.

I like AC, I really do, but he tends to post some pretty bias stuff from time to time. As a veteran I really don’t care what Janet Napolitano said in 2009. I’m confident the American people are behind me.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.[/quote]

Succinctly, to defend and develop American interests and the world order that the United States created. It is assuredly worth the cost. American military might underpins the international economic system.[/quote]

Absolutely agreed sir

I mean for crying out loud, we fly sorties against ISIS and iirc about 75% of the time we don’t even attack them. Yet you think the U.S. military is going to, what, capture the southwest United States while the President declares martial law… Come on…

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.[/quote]

Succinctly, to defend and develop American interests and the world order that the United States created. It is assuredly worth the cost. American military might underpins the international economic system.[/quote]

Absolutely agreed sir[/quote]

That’s what I like to see: agreeing that it is worth it! Worth what? Well, worth “it,” of course. A blanket “it.” Not only that, but it is worth it to defend and develop “American” interests; not “Americans’” interests, but “American” interests. Gooooooooo, Team Freedom!

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

It took exactly one fucking post before this went from discussing something that should be freightening and revolting for the American people, to something that is designed to create disagreement and separation of the people.

[/quote]

That’s politics 101 and probably why they’re training. We keep dividing the country over pointless bullshit to get votes and it’s eventually going to backfire.

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Simply cutting money going in doesn’t address the root problems either, but DOES in my opinion decrease our military’s ability to do its job in the long run.
[/quote]
What IS that job? That’s a pretty important question to answer before we discuss anything else.[/quote]

Succinctly, to defend and develop American interests and the world order that the United States created. It is assuredly worth the cost. American military might underpins the international economic system.[/quote]

Absolutely agreed sir[/quote]

That’s what I like to see: agreeing that it is worth it! Worth what? Well, worth “it,” of course. A blanket “it.” Not only that, but it is worth it to defend and develop “American” interests; not “Americans’” interests, but “American” interests. Gooooooooo, Team Freedom!
[/quote]

The preeminent charge of a government is to defend its citizens. The state is a collective entity, ergo, American is the appropriate qualifier to interests. High politics is decidedly guided by the ethics of utilitarianism. Given the vast geography of the United States, its enormous economic wherewithal, and its large population, its security organs are correspondingly large and well funded. US military might underpins the liberal economic and political international systems you ostensibly are so fond of, in spite of your apparent nescience of them. A superpower naturally has global interests, and thus requires a globe trotting military to defend and develop it’s economic, diplomatic, and security interests. No, it isn’t about “freedom”, which I didn’t so much as hint at. It’s about power, prosperity, and stability. Americans are largely uncomfortable with and ignorant of the systemic imperatives of the anarchic world order.

^ This guy’s REALLY smart, folks. His use of variations of the word “nescient” in every other post on an internet message board make that obvious.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

speak softly and carry a big stick. If that does not resonate with you, you’re hopeless. [/quote]

What do you think the “big stick” is? For crying out loud, it’s massive military spending.

Sheesh, what irony to quote Teddy Roosevelt who is noted for dramatically increasing military spending and presence.
[/quote]

Why in the world did you quote me when I didn’t say that?