[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
Perhaps you’re right. Just a few million… But those “knuckleheads” (islamic extremists) have hijacked your peaceful religion.
What does my religion have to do with anything? This thread is about Islam, not my religion.[/quote]
I think he meant “your” as meaning the religion you are sticking up for in this thread.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Beheading is just another way to kill. And in this energy crisis, I personally favor it over frying people over with thousands of volts. Plus, it’s probably less painful. I don’t see why you would view is as “whackjob”.
[/quote]
Maybe beheading is less painful when done skillfully with a sword, but I’m willing to bet using a bowie knife and sawing a neck like it’s a loaf of bread like the islamists do would be pretty painful.
[quote]lixy wrote:
And there’s plenty of Christian priests who were publicly advocating all sorts of atrocities. So, please cut the crap.
[/quote]
I can name 5 Muslims leaders who publically preach hatred and or jihad. Name 5 priests who “PUBLICALLY advocate all sorts of atrocities.”
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Today, the peaceful, or moderate muslims are in the majority and seem like they have no influence over the homicidal ones. [/quote]
And you believe that they do?
[quote]If the peaceful muslims are indeed the majority, and have access to arms, why don’t they wipe out or at least stop the ones who are making their religion look bad?
That is the question many people are asking.[/quote]
This is an idiotic argument. It’s like saying, if the non-criminal Americans are tne majority, why don’t they wipe out the criminals?
You show me one country other than Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, both of which I have always been denouncing as a huge problem, where people aren’t doing their best and I might start buying your argument.
[quote]lixy wrote:
This is an idiotic argument. It’s like saying, if the non-criminal Americans are tne majority, why don’t they wipe out the criminals?
[/quote]
First, the criminals in America are not acting on behalf of a religion.
We have laws, courts and police (and firearms) to stop criminal activity. Plus, show me a country without a criminal element.
Are you saying that the insane element which dominates Islam’s image in the eyes of the world is inherentas criminals are inherent in all countries?
In other words, as long as there are Muslims, there’s going to be wackjobs killing people and nothing can be done about it?
ISTANBUL, February 8 (Compass Direct News) �?? The Iranian parliament may mandate the death penalty for citizens who leave Islam, a human rights group announced this week.
For the first time in Iranian history, a proposed penal code demands the death penalty for “apostates,” according to a February 5 statement by the Institute on Religion and Public Policy (IRPP).
“Apostasy was always illegal, but the court could hand down a jail term, hard labor or the death penalty,” said IRPP President Joseph Grieboski. “Now apostasy [would only] get the death penalty.”
Iran has used the “apostasy” law to target Muslim converts to Christianity, liberal thinkers and members of Iran’s Baha’i religious minority.
“This is not something new, they just want to be more harsh towards those who are leaving Islam,” an Iranian pastor told Compass.
No converts to Christianity have been convicted of “apostasy” since international pressure forced officials to drop the death sentence of Christian convert Mehdi Dibaj in 1994. But in the years following the convert;s release, Dibaj and four other Protestant pastors, both converts and those working with converts, have been brutally murdered.
The murderers of the Christians have never been brought to justice. Local believers suspect the government played a role in the killings.
“They began assassinating pastors and Christian workers,” said the Iranian pastor, who requested anonymity. “Legally, they did not take them to court, but they just killed them and said that they hanged themselves and gave some other excuses.”
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
First, the criminals in America are not acting on behalf of a religion. [/quote]
Some are.
Yeah, well, we got the same things - minus the guns.
My point exactly!
Sorry, I don’t speak jibberish.
As long as there are humans, “there’s going to be wackjobs killing people and” there’s not much you can do about it.
[quote]lixy wrote:
As long as there are humans, “there’s going to be wackjobs killing people and” there’s not much you can do about it.[/quote]
First off, you better be damn sure you never make a typo.
Secondly, we should excuse the muslim extremists, but you can not do the same for America who you blame for every evil in existance?
And, I’m still waiting for some priest’s names here…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
“They began assassinating pastors and Christian workers,” said the Iranian pastor, who requested anonymity. “Legally, they did not take them to court, but they just killed them and said that they hanged themselves and gave some other excuses.”
[/quote]
Killing Christians is a long held pastime for Muslims. Sort of like Football or hunting here in the west.
Lixy the old line that islam does not condone the killing of innocents is a disingenuous load of crap.
The reason why it is disingenuous is because muslims and the rest of the world have totally different views on what constitutes innocence.
ie. Sixteen year old Atefah Sahaaleh who was hanged by an Iranian court for crime of getting raped by the Iranian police. While the rest of the world sees her as an innocent victim who did not deserve to die, muslims see er as a guilty criminal who deserved to die.
Another good example of muslims having a completely different conception of what constitutes innocence would be the supposed crime of apostasy. Choosing ones religion should not be considered a crime worthy of death. But that is exactly what the koran teaches.
In the UK the think tank policy exchange did a survey of young uk muslims that found that thirty six percent of them believe that apostates should be killed. Which totally blows a hole in Varqinir’s assertion that there are at most only several thousand extremists in islam.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
And there’s plenty of Christian priests who were publicly advocating all sorts of atrocities. So, please cut the crap.
I can name 5 Muslims leaders who publically preach hatred and or jihad. Name 5 priests who “PUBLICALLY advocate all sorts of atrocities.”
[/quote]
Pope Sixtus iv
Pope Gregory ix
Pope Innocent iv
Pope Urban vi
Pope Pius xii
There are plenty of others to. The Pope’s of history have condoned tons of atrocities… and they did it quite publicly too.
Yeah, in the past.
(I can name muslims from the 7 century to today that have advocated atrocities, so don’t even go there.)
The Pope publicly prays for peace and an end to terrorism today.
The Muslims calling for the death of the teacher who named a teddy bear Muhammad . . .those Muslims live today.
Name me five priests, not Popes, Cardinals, ect, PRIESTS TODAY that publicly call for atrocities.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
When standing up and saying “this is down right wrong” gets your ostracized or worse, I don’t blame anyone for shutting up. I heavily applaud those that do stand up to the violence, but those few voices are hardly enough to convince you people that most Muslims do not condone the kind of violence the extremists do.
I have studied pre Nazi Germany.
You may have a point. If you were an unarmed protestor in Nazi Germany you would have a hard time standing up and speaking out against a homicidal government which controlled the military, police, spy service and ran concentration and death camps.
Today, the peaceful, or moderate muslims are in the majority and seem like they have no influence over the homicidal ones.
If the peaceful muslims are indeed the majority, and have access to arms, why don’t they wipe out or at least stop the ones who are making their religion look bad?
That is the question many people are asking.[/quote]
It seems as if they are either:
In denial about the problem. Remember, it’s just a few million “knuckleheads” out of a population of over a billion.
They are too busy being outraged at a caricature featuring an image of their prophet to focus on introspection or acquainting themselves with concepts such as tolerance and understanding.
http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=africa&item=080208213035.zigo8h5d.php
Everyone has their priorities.
I’ve seen some reference made regarding the Quran.
Please quote the relevant verses and I will explain what they mean. You can’t just say the Quran says this or that without:
The reason why some verses appear dubious is because of the above mentioned factors, thus, I will clarify each of these points regarding any verse in question.
Fire away.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
This is an idiotic argument. It’s like saying, if the non-criminal Americans are tne majority, why don’t they wipe out the criminals?
The next time that those criminals gather together in a public place to hear the head criminal tell them why and how they should commit criminal acts, I’m sure we will.[/quote]
I don’t know, it took the FBI years of surveillance and infiltration to take down John Gotti. Everyone knew where Gotti lived, and he and the other bosses regularly gathered in public places (restaurants) to talk about their criminal activities. And as far as I know, the Mafia members in New York were at the time outnumbered by the non-Mafia members.
Thank you for the offer WIP. That is very gracious of you. Would you explain this one. Please.
“Forbidden to you are…married women, except those you own as slaves.” (Surah 4:20-, 24-)
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Gotti, was, after all, taken down, so can we expect the same fate for the Muslim criminals in, say, our lifetime? [/quote]
Look at it this way: if the cops were storming innocent people’s buildings, shooting at them with the occasional rape here and there, how much longer would the capture have taken?