whoa, big man. take a look at what you are saying. You dont want to start a fight, but then you call someones beliefs ludicrous? That is step 1 when getting into a fight.
We have all arrived at our beleifs through life experience, adversity, victory and failure. Some people come up with different answers than others.
You may look to Greek philosophy here for a second. The concept of hubris/hybris, or excessive pride. It always leads to self destruction. Christains give much credit to God, for letting them accomplish. It is our sweat and tears, but it is Gods gift to reward us for the struggle.
OK, Im stopping. I just dislike when someone labels me as ludicrous.
Is there somewhere I can get the ebonics version of the student Bible?
i am catholic, and NOTHING will happen until the temple is rebuilt
I could not care less about what holy books say. No holy book man slashes throats of the pilots and slams passenger aircrafts into populated areas. No holy book man starts a war. Just plain, next-door, stupid man, for his personal, egoistical reasons. If someone blows my ass to rather uncomfortable small particles producing an excellent X-ray picture of my bones on the wall behind me, for sure it won’t be an old man standing on the cloud with a beird and a stick in his hand, more likely, it would be an idiot of more regular and earthly origin. Even if so called God existed, he has absolutely nothing to do with me. Said enough.
Huh? I don’t get where you’re coming from. I gather you’re an atheist, but what does the rest of your message mean?
I don’t personally know of anyone who has been made a decision to follow a Christian belief from pure theory based brow-beating debate, because the decision from a Christian/biblical perspective is made ‘in faith’ which to those who choose not to believe seems insane and downright foolish (as mentioned in the bible). To acknowledge the presence of God is one thing, even satan believes in God, though to follow his will is another. To believe there is even a God one surely should acknowledge satan, and then consider why these two identities exist (the bible’s a good guide here)which invites me to ask the age-old questions of “Who am I, What am I here for & where am I going?” As a believer in Christ (okay I’m busted) what’s at the end of the road of my life or the world is God’s business cause I’m only responsible for my actions towards others ‘right here/now’ and that’s all I have to work with. This allows me to not have any fear/concern/worry about tomorrow cause of my trust in God. We in the western world have such open access to seeking and finding the truth in life whereas in other countries, people are killed for just asking. I’d encourage you guys to at least ask the big questions for your life and don’t stop until you have the answers.
Hey, thanks for the great replies guys! I knew I was going to get more flaming than Elton John’s home page, but each of your posts have really made it worth the shots I endured.
For those who believe that science makes God obsolete- I think you could be suffering from a little tunnel vision. I think God’s absence today, and the reason He annonymously created science, evolution, etc. are mainly to serve as red herrings. In short, He wants to challenge our FAITH- to see who still believes He exists despite all the scientific evidence to suggest the contrary. If He came right out like Bobby Bittman and said “I’m God! How are ya!” and made the world Nirvana that would certainly negate the need for faith.
Is that circular reasoning? I guess that could be argued successfully. But perhaps that is the cornerstone of faith- believing in something despite overmounting 'evidence' that suggests your beliefs are childish, pre-historic or simply quackery.
Big props to DA MAN, brider, michelle (a girl that insightful can’t be single 
and Jason.
Anything more to add people?
Although I have a problem with the term “apologetics” (as if I have anything to apologize for), check out the site www.reasons.org for the scoop on science vs. spirituality. Some of it is pretty deep stuff, hard to follow, but they basically prove the existence of God scientifically.
while i am going to stay out of the philosophical and fait fight, i find “- especially you guys out there who have such a powerful grasp of what the heck the bible is trying to say” to be very funny. I mean there are and have been tons of different religous leaders and scholars, and most all of them disagree. Who is to say what the Bible is really trying to say? No one ever agrees on that.
concerned-you got the message.
i think having the perfect physique is like being holy. if it was easy, everyone would have it!
well, i honestly belive that the world would be generally a better place without religon, but if God and Co lets you get through life a happyier person…good for you.
as for my self, i tend to get uptight when people tell me im going to hell because i dont belive what they do…fools and morons all.
how many people have been killed in the name of god in the worlds history?..more than 6000 anyway.
treat others like you yourself would like to be treated…all you need to do, its kinda simple really.
concerned - like i said earlier, i think i t took guts to even ask the question in the first place. I definately agree whith the suggestion to read the ‘left behind’ series. they are an easy read and, though obviously a fictional account, they follow a good interpretation of revelation and are interesting. i would not recommend the movie though, from what i heard it was pretty bad. you also may want to pick up ‘lord foulgrins letters’ by randy alcorn. it gives an interesting perspective on life (it’s written in teh same manner as the screwtape letters) personally i find faith to be quite a challenge, so read all you can and really decide what is best for you! oh, and if you pick up a Bible, i’d invest in a good concordance (sp?) it cross references every word in the book and is great for reference - i still need to get one myself! (and yes, i am single grin)
First off…read the books of prophecy…Daniel and Revelations. Daniel 9:27 states that the Tribulation will begin with the Antichrist signing a seven year peace with Israel. Since this has not happened YET…I wouldn’t worry, unless it does happen, because the creator of that peace will be the Antichrist according to Daniel. After that, Revelations 6:1-2 States that Christ opens the first of the seven sealed scroll and the Antichrist using diplomacy, establishes a one world government. Revelations 6:3-4 States that the second seal introduces a great world war. From there we go to famine, death, etc.
In reguards to if believers are raptured to heaven BEFORE the start of the Tribulation or not, is a hotly debated topic, with Pre, Mid, and Post Tribulation Rapture theorists abounding. Your best bet is to read the books of prophecy as I stated, and form your own judgements. As for myself, I look at the fact that there is NO seven year peace with Isreal right now, so I do not see this as a sign of the “end times”. Is it possible that the current events will form the proper conditions for all the prophecies to happen? It is possible, however, you could say the same thing about WWII. So as was stated previously…just be ready…and you will be fine!!
Hey Steve, DMAN, Jason, Michelle, T-Rev- please expand on the whole “nothing will happen until the temple is rebuilt thing”! Sounds like one of the seven(?)signs, right? Please elaborate! Any other signs? Have any already occured! Drop some science people!
The Second Coming??? I would like to think so but at my age sometimes the first coming is difficult…esp after some wine.
OK- Despite my lacklustre church attendance and general disdain for TV evangelists… I do believe in Jesus Christ and do believe that God sacrificed His only son so that we may relinquish our sins and have eternal life. I honestly do believe that. I also try to be the best person I can each day, despite sinning daily (pride, vanity, taking the Lord’s name in vain during rush hour traffic.) But I honestly do try. And in my heart, I believe.
Is this enough to save my soul come Judgement Day? Where do I go from here?
(thanks for the book recommendations, Michelle!)
By the way, anyone here ever see “The Rapture” with Mimi Rogers, directed by Michael Tolkien? Along the same lines…- Concerned
Concerned. “Is it enough to save my soul come judgement day?” Well, I’ll start from the bible, Matt, Ch7, v21 “Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: be he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter in to the kingdom of heaven.” So what’s God’s will. QUIT SINNING! Do absolutely everything you possibly can. If the TV makes you sin, get rid of it. If lifting makes you sin, quit. No compromises with it. I’m not saying it’ll happen overnight, nor am I saying I’m a saint right now, but I sure as heck am shooting for it. If you think I’m exaggerating, check out the gospels carefully. I forget verses but Jesus is clear, the number of the saved are few. God only hates one thing: sin. Check Exodus Ch 20 v20 “…Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that the dread of him might be in you, and you should not sin.” This is all coming from a Douay-Rheims bible, which is a word for word of the original latin, the New Jerusalem is also a faithful translation of the originals. They’re a little harder to read at times but if it ain’t the truth it ain’t worth much.
As for the second coming and rapture don’t sweat it. You can be called home at any time. Then all this stuff is irrelevant isn’t it? You must stand before God to give account of your life. Think about that. Luke Ch13 is pretty clear that you don’t have to be the worst guy around to get an early calling home. Again, Luke 13v24 “Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall SEEK to enter, and shall not be able.” So I guess the real question is what are your priorities, only you can answer that. Do you put more effort into that last rep on a squat, than do in your prayer life? Is getting a sweet car with the pet female next to you important? Get to mass every Sunday at least! Pray every single day. Do those things, fight sin as hard as you possibly can. When the devil tempts you, pray, and you spit in the punk’s worthless face. If you get to the point where you do as Jesus commanded us 1)Love God with all your heart, soul and strength (People seem to forget that comes first) 2)Love your neighbor as yourself, then you don’t need to worry an once about the second coming, whatever God wills, it’ll all be good.
Tek, you are wrong. Most people believe in Jesus, they just don't practice Christianity. There are more Christians and people who acknowledge they know there is a God, than athiests. An anthiest is someone who doesn't believe in God at all.
Concerned: the temple references refer to the Anti-Christ rebuilding the temple halfway though the tribulation period of 7 years - Christ will return at the end of the seven. However, before that there are the seven seals and the seven trumpets. buy the way, i have the ‘life application Bible’ i think it has more in it than the student Bible…and it doens’t say ‘student’ on it! grin
Concerned: The ONLY way you are saved from Judgement Day is by a decision to turn from unbelief and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as life. Salvation is by faith–a gift of God. Receiving Christ involves repenting from the sin of unbelief and turning to God and His provision in the person of Jesus Christ. It is trusting Christ for His forgiveness at the cross, and for His promise of new life to all who believe. It sounds like you know this and have already made this decision. Just remember that it’s a gift, and there is nothing you can add by trying harder, attending church, not cussing, etc. “Being a good person” won’t suffice as there are no “good people”. That’s why God gives us the perfect righteousness of Jesus because we don’t have any righteousness. As a Christian, God has made you holy, blameless, perfectly loved, accepted, forgiven. Believe it and be happy. Obviously no one has a sinless life except Jesus. So, don’t be discouraged by sins, i.e. the “filthy five” and the “naughty nine”. Jesus said the world’s sin is unbelief in Me. Unbelief is the “unpardonable sin”, not cussing. Living a godly life will be natural as you depend on and trust in Jesus to live His life through you. He gives us His desires to live by His love, and “sinning” will become as unnatural as eating garbage instead of surge after workout. And, don’t ever think God will punish you for your sins. The punishment for our sins is death (not the wood shed) and Jesus already took it in our place. For more see Real Answers with Steve Russo – Real Answers with Steve Russo