Have you finished the book Scott? What is your opinion? Was it a hit piece?
There’s lots of interesting stories about Hutchins and Jones interactions. As for the compound bicep it seems it’s not the end all bicep machine. It may be a good alternative machine when you want a change from some other machine and it’s good for working the contracted position to get that cramp feeling but it was a compromise of the much more complicated machine Jones had in mind which was to difficult to make. It was designed with the idea that the contracted position was the strongest position and according to the book it’s not. A cool machine but not something superior to say the plate loading bicep. As I love cool Nautilus machines I still want one but now I don’t think I’m really missing something by not having one. I think in most gyms they pretty much sit idle. Besides , my seat dropped Multi bicep closely mimics the 2 seater.
Scott
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No. The compound position biceps machine violates active sufficiency of the biceps. The plate loaded biceps and triceps machine with a only a moderate degree of shoulder flexion was a much better machine.
Ken Hutchins explains the reasons for this in his book The History of the Design and Function of the Vintage Nautilus Compound Position Biceps Machine
This book will probably ruffle the feathers of some Nautilus true-believers but it those who are open to learning will benefit from the material.
And what do you guys think about those assertions? Does having the arms up allow for more muscle fibers to be worked that otherwise might not be if the arm’s were half as high?
No, it does not. Motor unit recruitment is not dependent upon degree of shortening.
I believe I said much of what you are saying in a post prior to this. I didn’t bring in the active sufficiency stuff as I don’t think most people understand that stuff anymore than I do. I bought the book through your site and I appreciate it very much!! If it ruffles some feathers so be it! I wish he’d done a similar book on the BNTA arm and other machines. As I said before this book was Providence as it came out or I found it just at a time when I needed it!! Thanks Drew and Ken!!
Scott
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You’re welcome. Ken has been spending a lot of time writing recently, and there is another on the way soon.
Arthur was brilliant but he was not omniscient, and made some errors in the specifics of his recommendations and exercise equipment designs based on misunderstandings of some aspects of muscle function. It is important that these be addressed so that people don’t keep repeating the same mistakes five decades later.
As much as the misunderstandings of muscle functions are important the conversations and antics of Jones and those under him are equally as desirable to read! I look forward to the next book!
Scott
I will be adding it to the store this morning.
A few people have e-mailed me who are very upset that Ken would dare to write a book criticizing one of Arthur’s machines, but none of them have read it. They are aware of Arthur’s arguments for the design, but not the counterarguments, or about how some of Arthur’s assumptions about muscle function which influenced his designs were wrong, along with what is necessary to effectively stimulate improvements in strength and size (e.g., full-ROM is highly overrated).
I just want to hear the truth , if it shows Arthur or Ken or anyone else being wrong so be it.
Scott
How will you know it’s the truth?
That’s a good question ? I’d just have to weigh both sides of the argument and take a guess at where the truth lies. With Jones gone the discussion is one sided but then if he was here it would be the same way, ha ha if you know what I mean. I guess I should have said I just want to hear both sides and somewhere in between that might lie the truth.
Scott
The arguments are based on biomechanics, muscle physiology, and physics, no need to guess.
The new book evaluating Arthur Jones’ contributions to exercise is out today, with over 120 entries and over 140 photographs. I have not even had a chance to read it yet, and will be doing so today as well.
How about trying the exercise for a month and see if you notice a difference in the arms
== Scott ==
Maybe after I finish up trying 30 10 30. Right now I’m trying not to change up anything from the exercises I started with to see how it goes doing the same thing. Once I start throwing in different exercises or rep ranges or whatever I can never really know how the routine I started with goes. So far pretty good!
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Scott, Since you have the book, could you tell me “How a barbell can provide an almost perfect resistance curve”? Short, easy to understand version? Or, do I have to pay $30 to find out. I get that Hutchins tears down the Compound Biceps and Triceps designs!
== Scott ==
I’ll have to look again to see if it talks about how a barbell can do that?
== Scott ==
There is talk of an ideal curl with a barbell but it’s not a simple explanation. Many things are explained that I don’t quite understand due to my ignorance in terminology etc. My original question was is the arms up compound machine better than other Nautilus curl machines. This book seems to answer that question when it defines the plate loader a better machine for over all bicep development. Now that doesn’t mean the compound arm up machine is of no use , rather it has a specific use of working the arm in the contracted position . Is that important ? I don’t know if that’s been decided yet but many love the feeling it generates.
If you are a Nautilus nut like I am and come to this site in part because of its relation to Jones I would invest in this book. There lots of talk about Arthur and other fellows who worked for him and what they were doing and thinking. I find it most interesting!
Anyone with a serious interest in high intensity training ought to read all of Ken Hutchins’ books. If more people studied these they’d stop wasting a lot of time on silly, faddish bullshit and get the same or better results from their workouts with a lot lower risk of acute and overuse injuries.
I would love to read all his books , and there’s a lot of them, but I’m not made of money. It was pushing my budget to get these. It would be nice if there was some kind of discount like the more books you buy the cheaper it costs or something?
Scott
Speaking of Nautilus plate loading curl machines I did my 30 10 30 workout on it today and I hadn’t thought of this aspect of the machine before but I find the seat very tight and I’m a small guy. A guy with a 55 inch chest could never fit in it, ha ha!
Scott