the first one he talks about in the westside barbell routines is how this routine will help any skinny kids grow but it’s very low volume without that high of intensity. oh well, i’ll look around the site.
edit: i’m reading “pump down the volume” by CT now. he says “The now popular method of bodybuilding coach Dante Trudel (DoggCrap) normally has trainees hitting each muscle group twice per week, or twice every 10 days. 2 to 4 sets are performed per muscle, per session.”
thats wrong isn’t it?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
the first one he talks about in the westside barbell routines is how this routine will help any skinny kids grow but it’s very low volume without that high of intensity. oh well, i’ll look around the site.
edit: i’m reading “pump down the volume” by CT now. he says “The now popular method of bodybuilding coach Dante Trudel (DoggCrap) normally has trainees hitting each muscle group twice per week, or twice every 10 days. 2 to 4 sets are performed per muscle, per session.”
thats wrong isn’t it?[/quote]
Well, it depends once again on what you call a “set”. Some people might call a triple rest-pause set 3 sets, others would call that 1 extended set. For muscle groups like quads you do 2 sets, one heavy and one “widowmaker” (20 rep style). For back thickness you do 2 sets as well, one heavy and one heavier.
CT is right though that DC usually has you hitting each body part twice in 10 days.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
David1991 wrote:
the first one he talks about in the westside barbell routines is how this routine will help any skinny kids grow but it’s very low volume without that high of intensity. oh well, i’ll look around the site.
edit: i’m reading “pump down the volume” by CT now. he says “The now popular method of bodybuilding coach Dante Trudel (DoggCrap) normally has trainees hitting each muscle group twice per week, or twice every 10 days. 2 to 4 sets are performed per muscle, per session.”
thats wrong isn’t it?
Well, it depends once again on what you call a “set”. Some people might call a triple rest-pause set 3 sets, others would call that 1 extended set. For muscle groups like quads you do 2 sets, one heavy and one “widowmaker” (20 rep style). For back thickness you do 2 sets as well, one heavy and one heavier.
CT is right though that DC usually has you hitting each body part twice in 10 days.[/quote]
well he has you doing 1 extended set of 3 different exercises per muscle actually, so for chest for example he has you doing 3x what is recommended by DC
-also for quads you do one heavy set and one widowmaker, is that heavy set just a traditional set to failure and not beyond?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
well he has you doing 1 extended set of 3 different exercises per muscle actually, so for chest for example he has you doing 3x what is recommended by DC
[/quote]
Well, I was referring to DC’s protocol. I remember reading CT’s article and he had several different “low volume” inspired routines in there. I honestly haven’t tried any of those routines, but I know from experience and from others who have done DC as well, that it does work.
[quote]
-also for quads you do one heavy set and one widowmaker, is that heavy set just a traditional set to failure and not beyond?[/quote]
Going past failure on quad exercises isn’t recommended by Dante. This is mostly for lower back health. Remember that on the heavy set you are going for a 6-10 rep maximally heavy set. Also, while no exercises are off limits, those with high potential for progression (heavy compound exercises) are preferred.
So, while your quads might be able to handle going beyond failure, your supporting musculature (especially lower back) is put at a much higher risk if you go beyond failure on such exercises. Just not worth the added risk.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
David1991 wrote:
well he has you doing 1 extended set of 3 different exercises per muscle actually, so for chest for example he has you doing 3x what is recommended by DC
Well, I was referring to DC’s protocol. I remember reading CT’s article and he had several different “low volume” inspired routines in there. I honestly haven’t tried any of those routines, but I know from experience and from others who have done DC as well, that it does work.
[/quote]
ok, so if someone were to do low volume hitting it with the frequency CT and DC talk about (twice in 10 days) do you think it’s better do do the 3 full extended sets past failure like CT says or just the one extended set like DC recommends?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
David1991 wrote:
well he has you doing 1 extended set of 3 different exercises per muscle actually, so for chest for example he has you doing 3x what is recommended by DC
Well, I was referring to DC’s protocol. I remember reading CT’s article and he had several different “low volume” inspired routines in there. I honestly haven’t tried any of those routines, but I know from experience and from others who have done DC as well, that it does work.
ok, so if someone were to do low volume hitting it with the frequency CT and DC talk about (twice in 10 days) do you think it’s better do do the 3 full extended sets past failure like CT says or just the one extended set like DC recommends?
[/quote]
Like I said, I have no experience with CT’s suggested protocol, so I can’t say whether or not that would work. I do however have experience with DC’s protocol and can say without a doubt that it does work.
Personally I don’t think I would be able to recover from 3 extended sets per body part. Either that or I would have to not put all my effort into any one of those exercises. From my experience I just can’t put everything I’ve got into an exercise and then be able to do it again for another exercise for the same body part.
Heck, I actually found that I can’t continue to progress at the same rate if I include the static holds in the DC protocol (there are several levels of intensity in the program, check out the “Trying DoggCrapp Training” thread to find out about them). I can only get away with doing the triple rest-pause sets.
I suspect that I would quickly burn out if I tried to do 3 triple rest-pause sets for any one body part per session.
yea it does seem like a lot since DC has the muscle being trained again in about 5 days.
so how long have you been doing DC and do you find your results better than on previous more standard routines?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
so how long have you been doing DC and do you find your results better than on previous more standard routines?[/quote]
I did it from November of last year until April of this year. In that time I gained 10 lbs (mostly muscle) and added as much as 100 lbs to some of my lifts. Unfortunately since then I’ve had all kinds of problems with my teeth and have had to get lots of dental work done. As a result I haven’t been able to eat like I should, so I’ve put DC on hold until I can do it right.
So to answer your question, yes I think DC is among the best (if not the best) BB’ing program I have ever done.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
David1991 wrote:
so how long have you been doing DC and do you find your results better than on previous more standard routines?
I did it from November of last year until April of this year. In that time I gained 10 lbs (mostly muscle) and added as much as 100 lbs to some of my lifts. Unfortunately since then I’ve had all kinds of problems with my teeth and have had to get lots of dental work done. As a result I haven’t been able to eat like I should, so I’ve put DC on hold until I can do it right.
So to answer your question, yes I think DC is among the best (if not the best) BB’ing program I have ever done.[/quote]
thats some crazy gains on your lifts, but as far as muscle that doesnt seem like much. about 8-9lb (you said mostly so i’m assuming that much) in 6 months seems like really slow gains. over a year that could be another 16lb. of LBM which is good though especially if staying lean.
im not really taking into consideration your current level though. how long have you been training and what are your stats?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
David1991 wrote:
so how long have you been doing DC and do you find your results better than on previous more standard routines?
I did it from November of last year until April of this year. In that time I gained 10 lbs (mostly muscle) and added as much as 100 lbs to some of my lifts. Unfortunately since then I’ve had all kinds of problems with my teeth and have had to get lots of dental work done. As a result I haven’t been able to eat like I should, so I’ve put DC on hold until I can do it right.
So to answer your question, yes I think DC is among the best (if not the best) BB’ing program I have ever done.
thats some crazy gains on your lifts, but as far as muscle that doesnt seem like much. about 8-9lb (you said mostly so i’m assuming that much) in 6 months seems like really slow gains. over a year that could be another 16lb. of LBM which is good though especially if staying lean.
im not really taking into consideration your current level though. how long have you been training and what are your stats?[/quote]
Been training for 9 years, have gained around 60 lbs (actually went down in bf% from where I started), had gained 50 before I started DC. I’m 5’9" 190 about 11% bf.
David keep in mind the food intake is up the utmost importance for muscular gains and Sento and I talked about his hectic life with two jobs and struggling with food to keep up sometimes. Had he only had 1 job or been able to hook up an IV of whey isolate and olive oil lol, I bet that 10 lbs would have been more like 18-22.
Training progressively provides the stimulus, the other 23 hours of the day the muscle needs mass quantities of food and rest to grow.
oh well considering that means about 6lb. per year prior to DC and you gained 10lb. in 6 months with it thats pretty good. plus how much i or someone would gain would have to do with their diet as well obviously
[quote]Scott M wrote:
David keep in mind the food intake is up the utmost importance for muscular gains and Sento and I talked about his hectic life with two jobs and struggling with food to keep up sometimes. Had he only had 1 job or been able to hook up an IV of whey isolate and olive oil lol, I bet that 10 lbs would have been more like 18-22.
Training progressively provides the stimulus, the other 23 hours of the day the muscle needs mass quantities of food and rest to grow. [/quote]
yea as i commented above i’m sure that has a lot to do with it. so much so that for awhile diet was all i concentrated on and training i figured would be fine as long as i had a solid routine of mainly the basics (which is definitely true to an extent)
[quote]Scott M wrote:
David keep in mind the food intake is up the utmost importance for muscular gains and Sento and I talked about his hectic life with two jobs and struggling with food to keep up sometimes. Had he only had 1 job or been able to hook up an IV of whey isolate and olive oil lol, I bet that 10 lbs would have been more like 18-22.
[/quote]
IV of whey isolate and olive oil huh? You may be on to something there Scott. 
Seriously though, Scott is absolutely right that food is of the utmost importance for gaining muscle/weight, especially for someone with a racing fast metabolism like myself. The fact that I haven’t been able to consistently eat solid foods due to my dental issues just compounded the issue and as I said I have since put DC on hold.
The good news though is that I have been able to pretty much maintain my weight since stopping DC and have had to figure out ways to get in cheap, high calorie meals. It’s also given me some time to reflect on my training and at this point I’m more convinced than ever that DC is the most straight forward, no nonsense approach to bodybuilding out there.
I’m also almost finished with my dental stuff, and when I am, you’d better believe that I’m going to crush that damn log book. 
damn you guys really make me want to try it now lol. i said this before but it’s weird how i saw this in a magazine a long time ago and just thought “doggcrapp? wtf…is that” and basically thought it was a crappy routine.
i have been training for about 2 years and a few months so it’s not like im a complete beginner
Scott -
I’ve been reading what you have written here and it’s been pretty eye-opening. Makes me think about what it really is to train intensely. I got a question,
Say I am training chest (1x a week), and the workout looks like:
Incline bench
Flat bench
pec dec
Would it be better to work up to a (say 4-8) rep max in each exercise? Done pretty much as 1 all out work set, as upposed to 3-4 worksets of similar weight?
SO do you think it would be more effective to do say inclines at:
95 x 12
135 x 10
195 x 6
as upposed to
95 x 12
135 x 8
165 x 8/8/6 or something, you get the idea?
So less TOTAL volume, but a heavier work set?
I am sure Scott will have his own take on this, and i am not wantling to step on his toes here - but if i may just say that i think you would be better off taking ALL THREE sets to failure like they were 1 all out work set.
If you have a full week to recover, you can really do some damage to the muscle IMO… more than 9 sets of damage IMHO.
JJ
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Scott -
I’ve been reading what you have written here and it’s been pretty eye-opening. Makes me think about what it really is to train intensely. I got a question,
Say I am training chest (1x a week), and the workout looks like:
Incline bench
Flat bench
pec dec
Would it be better to work up to a (say 4-8) rep max in each exercise? Done pretty much as 1 all out work set, as upposed to 3-4 worksets of similar weight?
SO do you think it would be more effective to do say inclines at:
95 x 12
135 x 10
195 x 6
as upposed to
95 x 12
135 x 8
165 x 8/8/6 or something, you get the idea?
So less TOTAL volume, but a heavier work set?
[/quote]
I’m sure Scott will answer this as well, but what you are describing (“ramping”/warming-up to 1 all out workset) is pretty much what I’ve seen/known just about all of the big guys to do. Pretty much all the pros I’ve seen train, the DC guys, guys I know from the gym, Prof. X on this site, etc…
One thing to consider is that, like Scott mentioned, strength (for reps) should be your goal. If 375x10-12 reps represents your maximal potential on incline bench, then the faster you get to that goal the better IMO. Limiting yourself in the amount of weight you use simply to do more sets just doesn’t make much sense when you think about it.
Think about when you first started working out, did you train for “the pump” or do all kinds of fancy routines? Well, I know I didn’t, I trained to get stronger, and as a result, I got bigger. It was only later on when I get side tracked by the smorgasbord of different routines that I started to unnecessarily complicate things and get away from what I really should have been focusing on.
This is precisely the point that Dante tries to make all the time, and one of the reasons that I have very grateful for his writings and DC training. It basically cuts through all the fluff and right down to what the “meat and potatoes” of the issue.
That’s my take on it anyhow.
sento guy so your saying the first one he posted
95 x 12
135 x 10
195 x 6
is superior to the
95 x 12
135 x 8
185 x 8/8/6
right?
"If 375x10-12 reps represents your maximal potential on incline bench, then the faster you get to that goal the better IMO. Limiting yourself in the amount of weight you use simply to do more sets just doesn’t make much sense when you think about it. "
Exactly the point here. And David yes that is what Sento is saying… although I would imagine he could handle a little bit more(205 maybe) knowing that this was it for incline press and he isn’t in cruise control to make it through all these work sets.