[quote]JFG wrote:
<<<This was my eating week:
Mon - Low
Tues - No
Wed - High
Thur - No
Fri - Low
Sat - No
Sun - High
High means as many carbs as I can get in day.
Low means 100g max
No means no carbs at all.
[/quote]
This may not hurt, but you won’t actually undergo fat adaptation like that which is the real gem of low carb eating at least for weight training people.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
JFG wrote:
<<<This was my eating week:
Mon - Low
Tues - No
Wed - High
Thur - No
Fri - Low
Sat - No
Sun - High
High means as many carbs as I can get in day.
Low means 100g max
No means no carbs at all.
This may not hurt, but you won’t actually undergo fat adaptation like that which is the real gem of low carb eating at least for weight training people.[/quote]
I agree, the shit is the point of carb cycling if you don’t fat adapt. I think the most you’re getting out of that “cycle” of macros is calorie variation, long known to help reduce fat. Not so well know to gain mass.
Get a good cycle that fits an adapation plan and see the beauty.
-chris
also to note for those you feel like shit on low carbs if depends how you get into it. If you’ve been cutting for weeks, and then go and completely cut out carbs and eat 1,500 cals a day to burn the last bit of fat you’ll feel like shit.
But low carbs can be a lifestyle and I prefer it for mass or fat loss, it doesnt have to just be those weeks of hell and harcore fat loss.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
scientificly, carbs burn at a rate of 100% efficiency. Proteins, fats, and alcohols do not burn at 100% efficiency, so that to me means that some percentage of the above mentioned gets converted back to fat.
Carbs on the other don’t get converted to fat unless excess is consumed.
I believe I’ve read that a person can potentially burn .8g per Kg b0dy-weight per hour
That said, the quality of carb is also an issue…a sweet potatoe and a candy bar are going to be totally different.[/quote]
your understanding of the effiency of conversion of macronutrients to energy is incorrect. carbs do convert more efficiently to energy than protein and fat, but that means the exact opposite of what you think it means. it goes like this: the body uses a certain amount of energy extracting energy from macronutrients.
it takes much more energy extracting energy from PRO, FAT, and alcohol than it does CHO. on a percentage basis, the net amount of useable (and storeable)calories is higher from CHO than the other macros. the energy that is lost isn’t stored as fat. it’s lost in the process of digestion (and an additional amount is lost as heat, just as in any conversion of mass to energy).
all you need is a surplus of calories, not just carbs, to have carbs stored as fat.
a certain percentage of all stored macros is burned at all times, not just CHO.
true, this has to do with insulin spikes and insulin resistance.
i hope this clears some things up and spurs you to research some more, because then you will have a much better understanding of metabolism, training, diet, etc.
[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
JFG wrote:
<<<This was my eating week:
Mon - Low
Tues - No
Wed - High
Thur - No
Fri - Low
Sat - No
Sun - High
High means as many carbs as I can get in day.
Low means 100g max
No means no carbs at all.
This may not hurt, but you won’t actually undergo fat adaptation like that which is the real gem of low carb eating at least for weight training people.
I agree, the shit is the point of carb cycling if you don’t fat adapt. I think the most you’re getting out of that “cycle” of macros is calorie variation, long known to help reduce fat. Not so well know to gain mass.
Get a good cycle that fits an adapation plan and see the beauty.
-chris[/quote]
True and true. I used the carb cycling to loose fat. Was never my intention to gain from it.
I was also answering his question, that is all.
I tried it, it worked ok (I learned from it, that is all that matters now) and it was my first time with little or no carbs. It was just to say that Yes, you can live of low carbs.
I do like the AD better (week 5 right now). Once your body adapts to the fat, it is hard to explain, but you feel better. Even when tired, I feel more awake.
The carb cycling never offered that. But it gave me the push I needed to try the AD, and I dont regret it. Friday’s and mondays can be tough, but at least I have the energy to push thru.
[quote]JFG wrote:
realpeanutbutter wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
JFG wrote:
<<<This was my eating week:
Mon - Low
Tues - No
Wed - High
Thur - No
Fri - Low
Sat - No
Sun - High
High means as many carbs as I can get in day.
Low means 100g max
No means no carbs at all.
This may not hurt, but you won’t actually undergo fat adaptation like that which is the real gem of low carb eating at least for weight training people.
I agree, the shit is the point of carb cycling if you don’t fat adapt. I think the most you’re getting out of that “cycle” of macros is calorie variation, long known to help reduce fat. Not so well know to gain mass.
Get a good cycle that fits an adapation plan and see the beauty.
-chris
True and true. I used the carb cycling to loose fat. Was never my intention to gain from it.
I was also answering his question, that is all.
I tried it, it worked ok (I learned from it, that is all that matters now) and it was my first time with little or no carbs. It was just to say that Yes, you can live of low carbs.
I do like the AD better (week 5 right now). Once your body adapts to the fat, it is hard to explain, but you feel better. Even when tired, I feel more awake.
The carb cycling never offered that. But it gave me the push I needed to try the AD, and I dont regret it. Friday’s and mondays can be tough, but at least I have the energy to push thru.[/quote]
Mondays are tough?? I can tell you how to make fridays easier but mondays are supposed to be your huge day where you can lift like a mule.
If you want your body to last longer on fridays (assuming a 5/2 split) then you should use it as a rest day and train on sat instead or try a 6/1 split for a bit. go low CHO monday-saturday and then load on sunday. do it for about 4 goes and then revert back to 5/2. your body will get used to the longer periods.
It seems as though it learns to expect the load and get shitty on fridays. This also might help you feel better on mondays if it’s the loading that bothers you. Keep it going.
-chris
[quote]Brendan Ryan wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Roy wrote:
I stay lean with about 350-400 carbs a day. Carbs alone don’t make you fat, it’s the big picture.
This is true, but high carb/low fat eating, while not outright catabolic, IS non, if not anti anabolic.
Can you elaborate?
I thought insulin was “the most anabolic hormone in the body”…Have we been misinformed?
(this is not an attack - I sincerely want to learn)
[/quote]
Sort of. Cholesterol is pretty anabolic. It is the precursor to both test and est. But if you are truely interested you should read the AD thread in Supplements and Nutrition. You can learn a lot. Seems to keep your test high at all times.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
In one article, Charles Poliquin wrote:
“People are kidding themselves about how many carbs they need. There’s a difference between a mouth and a vacuum. Forty to fifty grams per day of good carbs is plenty for most of the population. That’s why there are so many fat dieticians and personal trainers. Nutrient timing makes a difference, too. A lean 200-pound man can keep his leanness eating 250 grams of carbs a day, if 200 of them are taken post-workout and the other 50 grams spread throughout the day in low glycemic carbs. Remember, I said “stay lean,” not get lean. Get lean first if you want to eat carbs. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can eat.”
50 grams of carbs? 200 total calories from carbs? Even at a 2000 calorie diet (most on here probably need far more than that a day), thats 10% carbs. Does that sound ridiculously low to anyone else?
Am I missing something here? Is this only for people who don’t work out? [/quote]
Nah he aint insane…he knows his stuff! When he says 50 grams of carbs a day i think he means for the non training population, beacuse in the next line he says a 200 pound guy may eat 250 grams of carbs a day to maintain his leaness.
To really understand how best to manipulate carbs you should read Thib’s article in his archives. Its called somthing like the “Carb Cycling Codex”…i’ve just started eating in line with the recommendations in that article. Its easy and seems to make sense!
I’d describe it as the sleep is a higher quality and you have more even energy levels. I get cloudy headed with too many carbs after adapting to low carb. 
Your body always has enough fat to burn for energy but runs out of carbs and therefore you are on a roller coaster all day long. Plus test levels are always peaked!
[quote]JFG wrote:
realpeanutbutter wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
JFG wrote:
<<<This was my eating week:
Mon - Low
Tues - No
Wed - High
Thur - No
Fri - Low
Sat - No
Sun - High
High means as many carbs as I can get in day.
Low means 100g max
No means no carbs at all.
This may not hurt, but you won’t actually undergo fat adaptation like that which is the real gem of low carb eating at least for weight training people.
I agree, the shit is the point of carb cycling if you don’t fat adapt. I think the most you’re getting out of that “cycle” of macros is calorie variation, long known to help reduce fat. Not so well know to gain mass.
Get a good cycle that fits an adapation plan and see the beauty.
-chris
True and true. I used the carb cycling to loose fat. Was never my intention to gain from it.
I was also answering his question, that is all.
I tried it, it worked ok (I learned from it, that is all that matters now) and it was my first time with little or no carbs. It was just to say that Yes, you can live of low carbs.
I do like the AD better (week 5 right now). Once your body adapts to the fat, it is hard to explain, but you feel better. Even when tired, I feel more awake.
The carb cycling never offered that. But it gave me the push I needed to try the AD, and I dont regret it. Friday’s and mondays can be tough, but at least I have the energy to push thru.[/quote]
Doesn’t the average person need about 100-110g carbs per day for a healthy nervous system. Sure, neurons can run on ketones, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Meh. I just “Zone” it. Makes life a lot easier.
I can’t believe how many people eat a low-carb diet and complain that they feel foggy and all that, when in fact they’re eating a not-so-low carb diet.
The less carbs you consume, the faster you’ll reach keto-adaptation. Then, you’ll enjoy great mental sharpness, total appetite control, no loss of endurance in the gym, etc.
My school grades even went up.
Another benefits of going very low carb (5g and under) is that you stop craving carbs… I used to follow a normal low-carb diet, along the lines of ~30-50g of carbs, and once in a while I would get these huge cravings to eat as much carbs as I can and ended up eating a pound or two of dates or figs… No more of this since going for a close to no-carb diet, high fat and “adequate” protein (20-30% of the cals ideally).
This is all personnal evidence, but I can say that I know other no-carbers who also got many benefits going no-carbs (<5).
I remember a few years ago, I would eat a diet high in grains and fruits as the authorities recommend, and my digestion was very bad. Almost all my youth, I can say that I felt the brain fog from eating carbs.
Another benefits is that I can often eat only 1 meal a day, and I get no loss of muscle mass at all, maintaining my weight. I have no problem working out on an empty stomach either. And I don’t get these huge amounts of lactic acid that keep you from doing more on higher reps sets. Insulin might be anabolic, but it shuts down other anabolic hormones like HGH so there’s no point really, and post-workout glucose have been shown to diminish genes expression, in other words, it diminishes protein synthesis.
[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Doesn’t the average person need about 100-110g carbs per day for a healthy nervous system. Sure, neurons can run on ketones, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Meh. I just “Zone” it. Makes life a lot easier.[/quote]
““The brain, in particular, relies heavily on ketone bodies as a substrate for lipid synthesis and for energy during times of reduced food intake. At the NIH, Dr. Richard Veech refers to ketones as “magic” in their ability to increase metobolic efficiency, while decreasing production of free radicals, the damaging byproducts of normal metabolism. His work has shown that ketone bodies may treat neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease (source), and the heart and brain operate 25% more efficiently using ketones as a source of energy (source).””
This is on wikipedia’s page about ketones, you can click on the “source” for the refences.
[quote]Max Thunder wrote:
““The brain, in particular, relies heavily on ketone bodies as a substrate for lipid synthesis and for energy during times of reduced food intake. At the NIH, Dr. Richard Veech refers to ketones as “magic” in their ability to increase metobolic efficiency, while decreasing production of free radicals, the damaging byproducts of normal metabolism. His work has shown that ketone bodies may treat neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease (source), and the heart and brain operate 25% more efficiently using ketones as a source of energy (source).””
This is on wikipedia’s page about ketones, you can click on the “source” for the refences.[/quote]
Damn.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Brendan Ryan wrote:
Can you elaborate?
I thought insulin was “the most anabolic hormone in the body”…Have we been misinformed?
(this is not an attack - I sincerely want to learn)
Check your PMs.[/quote]
please pm me too with the same info
[quote]Max Thunder wrote:
ElbowStrike wrote:
Doesn’t the average person need about 100-110g carbs per day for a healthy nervous system. Sure, neurons can run on ketones, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Meh. I just “Zone” it. Makes life a lot easier.
““The brain, in particular, relies heavily on ketone bodies as a substrate for lipid synthesis and for energy during times of reduced food intake. At the NIH, Dr. Richard Veech refers to ketones as “magic” in their ability to increase metobolic efficiency, while decreasing production of free radicals, the damaging byproducts of normal metabolism. His work has shown that ketone bodies may treat neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease (source), and the heart and brain operate 25% more efficiently using ketones as a source of energy (source).””
This is on wikipedia’s page about ketones, you can click on the “source” for the refences.[/quote]
the info is even better if u look for “ketone bodies”
Do any of you guys have wives/girlfriends? This seems to me like it would be a very awkward way to go out on a date… I’m curious as to how you adapt social portions of your lifestyle to it - are the women in your life accepting of this odd eating behavior?
[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
Do any of you guys have wives/girlfriends? This seems to me like it would be a very awkward way to go out on a date… I’m curious as to how you adapt social portions of your lifestyle to it - are the women in your life accepting of this odd eating behavior?[/quote]
My wife is vegan.
She doesnt like to see blood on the plate, so I respect that and dont eat meat in front of her. Apart from that, it’s all good. I cook my meat, I cook rice or potatoes for the kids and make a veg plate for my wife.
I am a trained chef, so no biggie for me.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
In one article, Charles Poliquin wrote:
“People are kidding themselves about how many carbs they need. There’s a difference between a mouth and a vacuum. Forty to fifty grams per day of good carbs is plenty for most of the population. That’s why there are so many fat dieticians and personal trainers. Nutrient timing makes a difference, too. A lean 200-pound man can keep his leanness eating 250 grams of carbs a day, if 200 of them are taken post-workout and the other 50 grams spread throughout the day in low glycemic carbs. Remember, I said “stay lean,” not get lean. Get lean first if you want to eat carbs. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can eat.”
50 grams of carbs? 200 total calories from carbs? Even at a 2000 calorie diet (most on here probably need far more than that a day), thats 10% carbs. Does that sound ridiculously low to anyone else?
Am I missing something here? Is this only for people who don’t work out? [/quote]
Someone may have mentioned this, but it depends on your individual biochem: there are protein types, protein+carb types (mixed), and carb types. Low-carbs work well for the former two (both in fat loss and maint.), but might not work so well with the latter one. That said, even carb types should get most of there carbs from veggies and fruits, grains sparingly. Too much insulin from too many grains will make anyone fat regardless of metabolic type, unless you have the metabolism of an Olympic hept/decathlete.
TopSirloin
[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
True and true. I used the carb cycling to loose fat. Was never my intention to gain from it.
I was also answering his question, that is all.
I tried it, it worked ok (I learned from it, that is all that matters now) and it was my first time with little or no carbs. It was just to say that Yes, you can live of low carbs.
I do like the AD better (week 5 right now). Once your body adapts to the fat, it is hard to explain, but you feel better. Even when tired, I feel more awake.
The carb cycling never offered that. But it gave me the push I needed to try the AD, and I dont regret it. Friday’s and mondays can be tough, but at least I have the energy to push thru.
Mondays are tough?? I can tell you how to make fridays easier but mondays are supposed to be your huge day where you can lift like a mule.
If you want your body to last longer on fridays (assuming a 5/2 split) then you should use it as a rest day and train on sat instead or try a 6/1 split for a bit. go low CHO monday-saturday and then load on sunday. do it for about 4 goes and then revert back to 5/2. your body will get used to the longer periods.
It seems as though it learns to expect the load and get shitty on fridays. This also might help you feel better on mondays if it’s the loading that bothers you. Keep it going.
-chris[/quote]
Yup, Monday are tough for the mental aspect. I feel a little foggy. The work outs are amazing, that is just great.
And yes, you have to change your work outs around. Ill probably stop the friday WO and take away the sunday carbs. I really dont look forward to the sunday. The oatmeal with blueberries is the only thing I enjoy, the rest of the day, I look at the bacon longingly…
But this is week 6, so still a noob at this.
[quote]Max Thunder wrote:
I can’t believe how many people eat a low-carb diet and complain that they feel foggy and all that, when in fact they’re eating a not-so-low carb diet.
The less carbs you consume, the faster you’ll reach keto-adaptation. Then, you’ll enjoy great mental sharpness, total appetite control, no loss of endurance in the gym, etc.
My school grades even went up.
Another benefits of going very low carb (5g and under) is that you stop craving carbs… I used to follow a normal low-carb diet, along the lines of ~30-50g of carbs, and once in a while I would get these huge cravings to eat as much carbs as I can and ended up eating a pound or two of dates or figs… No more of this since going for a close to no-carb diet, high fat and “adequate” protein (20-30% of the cals ideally).
This is all personnal evidence, but I can say that I know other no-carbers who also got many benefits going no-carbs (<5).
I remember a few years ago, I would eat a diet high in grains and fruits as the authorities recommend, and my digestion was very bad. Almost all my youth, I can say that I felt the brain fog from eating carbs.
Another benefits is that I can often eat only 1 meal a day, and I get no loss of muscle mass at all, maintaining my weight. I have no problem working out on an empty stomach either. And I don’t get these huge amounts of lactic acid that keep you from doing more on higher reps sets. Insulin might be anabolic, but it shuts down other anabolic hormones like HGH so there’s no point really, and post-workout glucose have been shown to diminish genes expression, in other words, it diminishes protein synthesis.
[/quote]
Wow Max,
You are making some bold statements here… but, I think it’s great food for thought. I have to comment though, eating 5 grams of TOTAL carbs per day is next to impossible without eating next to ZERO vegetables. Even a half cup of broccoli has 3 grams - you’re telling me you think it’s healthy to merely eat the equivalent of a 3/4 cup of broccoli per day as your sole vegetable? I suppose this might be considered healthy if you ate a large variety of animal products, including large amounts of grass-fed beef for the remainder of your essential nutrients.
I find this unbelievable… but interestring none the less.
TopSirloin