[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
What he is doing is disgusting, offensive, and disrespectful.[/quote]
Yes it is!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
There is a required minimum standard for trolling and peeing on Jesus does not clear the bar.
[/quote]
You’re an atheist of course it doesn’t CLEAR THE BAR. (eye roll)[/quote]
The bar for the minimum standard not the one for trolling.
There is an Austrian artist called Nitzsch who did everything there was to do with blood, sperm and God knows what else, but his intention actually did go beyond trolling even when he wanted toi shock people.
This is meh.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
There is a required minimum standard for trolling and peeing on Jesus does not clear the bar.
[/quote]
You’re an atheist of course it doesn’t CLEAR THE BAR. (eye roll)[/quote]
The bar for the minimum standard not the one for trolling.
There is an Austrian artist called Nitzsch who did everything there was to do with blood, sperm and God knows what else, but his intention actually did go beyond trolling even when he wanted toi shock people.
This is meh.[/quote]
Hey, the blenders. I remember that.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
There is a required minimum standard for trolling and peeing on Jesus does not clear the bar.
[/quote]
You’re an atheist of course it doesn’t CLEAR THE BAR. (eye roll)[/quote]
Yeah, but if some one pissed on hitler, he’d be really ticked.[/quote]
Hitler was a Christian, nice try.
inb4 Hitler was not a true Christian[/quote]
LOL! Maybe in fairy land… He was a known occultist. He cooked a fair share of Christians in those ovens… Or are we going to deny history now?
[EDIT] As a matter of fact many people think that only 6 million people died in the holocaust. When in fact 6 million was the number of Jews killed. There 3 million Christians roasted there as well as homosexuals and anybody who didn’t fit the mold of the third riecht. The actual number is around 11.5 million total people.
[/quote]
Him killing other Christians is just proof he was a psychopath. The remarks he made in his speeches and writing are pro Christian.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
There is a required minimum standard for trolling and peeing on Jesus does not clear the bar.
[/quote]
You’re an atheist of course it doesn’t CLEAR THE BAR. (eye roll)[/quote]
Yeah, but if some one pissed on hitler, he’d be really ticked.[/quote]
Hitler was a Christian, nice try.
inb4 Hitler was not a true Christian[/quote]
LOL! Maybe in fairy land… He was a known occultist. He cooked a fair share of Christians in those ovens… Or are we going to deny history now?
[EDIT] As a matter of fact many people think that only 6 million people died in the holocaust. When in fact 6 million was the number of Jews killed. There 3 million Christians roasted there as well as homosexuals and anybody who didn’t fit the mold of the third riecht. The actual number is around 11.5 million total people.
[/quote]
Him killing other Christians is just proof he was a psychopath. The remarks he made in his speeches and writing are pro Christian.
[/quote]
He did use it as propaganda especially in the early days.
I’ll just remind everyone that all active Nazis were excommunicated by German Bishops Feb. 1931. Okay, have a nice day.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I’ll just remind everyone that all active Nazis were excommunicated by German Bishops Feb. 1931. Okay, have a nice day.[/quote]
I just want to remind everyone that that never happened. Have a nice day.
Hitler was a political beast, not a religious one.
if anything, he believed in his own personnal relationship with “the Providence”, like many dictators, regardless of their origins and their official religious affiliations.
Nazism was a diverse movement, with a strong christian component, a strong atheistic component often with a nietzschean influence, and a small but radical neo-pagan “volkish” component.
Hitler himself dabbled in (and out) the three, and instrumentalized the three.
When the present pope did something similar ( some argument about which religion was the oldest etc) a comment he had no need to make , a nun was killed but a muslim fundamentalist in Italy. Was the pope responsilbe?
If some religious zealot killed a person of Jewish origin in retaliation would Larry Donald (or actually HBO for deciding to air it be responsibile ( morally that is.)
I am not at all religious but I think famous people should recognise their words can be deadly. In a way I think they should be able to piss other an effifagy of whatever (and that is not in itself wrong but knowingly inciting extremists is morally wrong. There are extremists in all religions. Religious people often make fun of atheists and agnosticss too but there few atheist extremsits. I think it may be acceptable to make fun of religous people in response( such as citing of inane religions like the flying Spaghetti monster or referring to their beliefs mythology, but pissing of their gods doesn’t help anyone. To be fair ancient scribblings having pervasive effect upon our legal and moral cultures it is actually quite offensive to many non-religious people , especially some of the more extreme views in their religious manuscripts.
But these points are reasoned argument rather than pure incitement.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
People that do that are crying for attention and trying to illicit a strong response. If one turns the other cheek, they are taking away some of the ‘fun’ of the perpetrator by not engaging with them. What’s more insulting that making a spectacle and being ignored?[/quote]
Considering that this is actually well over a year old already. It was duly ignored if your are just finding out about it now.
All I am saying is yes it was offensive and that he would not have the balls to do it to something Islamic. Hell just look at South Park, they offend Christianity regularly, but were going to offend islam, but after a couple of threats they tuck tail and ran. This means they are cowards.
They have the right to offend us. But also note that Christianity is the last bastion where blatant bigotry is ok. I think everybody should be offended equally.
[/quote]
Weren’t Trey Parker and co. actually going to air it despite all the hate mail and threats they received? I thought it was Comedy Central proper that pulled the episode because THEY feared the backlash?
Yes. The end speech that is bleeped out was bleeped by comedy central. They had issues the whole time with comedy central.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Impossible. Everyone knows that gays have never been discriminated against, and any so-called homophobia exists only in their self-deluded minds.[/quote]
Okay, the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, 3 million Christians, nearly 12 million innocent people total*
*5,000 of which were gay. Don’t forget the 5,000 gay people, they were persecuted too.
The 5000 number sounds a little off. 5000/12,000,000 is .04% of the people killed. Thats 1 out of every 2500 people. Even if homosexuals weren’t specifically targeted don’t you think the percentage in the general population is a tad higher than that?
[quote]decimation wrote:
When the present pope did something similar ( some argument about which religion was the oldest etc) a comment he had no need to make , a nun was killed but a muslim fundamentalist in Italy. Was the pope responsilbe?
If some religious zealot killed a person of Jewish origin in retaliation would Larry Donald (or actually HBO for deciding to air it be responsibile ( morally that is.)
I am not at all religious but I think famous people should recognise their words can be deadly. In a way I think they should be able to piss other an effifagy of whatever (and that is not in itself wrong but knowingly inciting extremists is morally wrong. There are extremists in all religions. Religious people often make fun of atheists and agnosticss too but there few atheist extremsits. I think it may be acceptable to make fun of religous people in response( such as citing of inane religions like the flying Spaghetti monster or referring to their beliefs mythology, but pissing of their gods doesn’t help anyone. To be fair ancient scribblings having pervasive effect upon our legal and moral cultures it is actually quite offensive to many non-religious people , especially some of the more extreme views in their religious manuscripts.
But these points are reasoned argument rather than pure incitement.
[/quote]
Religious people make fun of atheists? When? I am not saying it has never happened, but I sure have never seen it. It’s us religious folks who tend to be the butt of jokes and the focus of mockery.
I’d like to see the flip side, do you have any links or anything?
[quote]kilpaba wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
People that do that are crying for attention and trying to illicit a strong response. If one turns the other cheek, they are taking away some of the ‘fun’ of the perpetrator by not engaging with them. What’s more insulting that making a spectacle and being ignored?[/quote]
Considering that this is actually well over a year old already. It was duly ignored if your are just finding out about it now.
All I am saying is yes it was offensive and that he would not have the balls to do it to something Islamic. Hell just look at South Park, they offend Christianity regularly, but were going to offend islam, but after a couple of threats they tuck tail and ran. This means they are cowards.
They have the right to offend us. But also note that Christianity is the last bastion where blatant bigotry is ok. I think everybody should be offended equally.
[/quote]
Weren’t Trey Parker and co. actually going to air it despite all the hate mail and threats they received? I thought it was Comedy Central proper that pulled the episode because THEY feared the backlash? [/quote]
One of them blinked. You’re right it could have been comedy central…It’s not the first time they chickened out of poking fun at islam…It is amazing the the respect the threats of violence people give.
I would air it specifically because I got threats of violence and I’d say so before, during and after the program.
“We are airing this episode specifically because people threatened to kills us if we did. We will not cower to threats of violence. Every time we are threatened we will air the threat and the object of that threat. If you are a terrorist freak, fuck you”
That’s what they should have done, pussies.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]decimation wrote:
When the present pope did something similar ( some argument about which religion was the oldest etc) a comment he had no need to make , a nun was killed but a muslim fundamentalist in Italy. Was the pope responsilbe?
If some religious zealot killed a person of Jewish origin in retaliation would Larry Donald (or actually HBO for deciding to air it be responsibile ( morally that is.)
I am not at all religious but I think famous people should recognise their words can be deadly. In a way I think they should be able to piss other an effifagy of whatever (and that is not in itself wrong but knowingly inciting extremists is morally wrong. There are extremists in all religions. Religious people often make fun of atheists and agnosticss too but there few atheist extremsits. I think it may be acceptable to make fun of religous people in response( such as citing of inane religions like the flying Spaghetti monster or referring to their beliefs mythology, but pissing of their gods doesn’t help anyone. To be fair ancient scribblings having pervasive effect upon our legal and moral cultures it is actually quite offensive to many non-religious people , especially some of the more extreme views in their religious manuscripts.
But these points are reasoned argument rather than pure incitement.
[/quote]
Religious people make fun of atheists? When? I am not saying it has never happened, but I sure have never seen it. It’s us religious folks who tend to be the butt of jokes and the focus of mockery.
I’d like to see the flip side, do you have any links or anything?
[/quote]
Yeah, this is news to me too.
[quote]Kevin_Meaux wrote:
The 5000 number sounds a little off. 5000/12,000,000 is .04% of the people killed. Thats 1 out of every 2500 people. Even if homosexuals weren’t specifically targeted don’t you think the percentage in the general population is a tad higher than that?[/quote]
Well… there were openly gay members of the Nazi party who staved off the persecution of homosexuals until Hitler had them murdered (persecuted?).
Could you be clearer about ‘a tad’? 5-15k killed is the estimate (still considerably less persecution relative to the 6 million Jews, 3 million Christians, and 3 million ‘other’).
Why I don’t doubt that number much at all (avoiding deeper statistical analysis);
- Current studies indicate self-identifying homosexuals to be ~1-4% and homosexuals in general to be ~8% of the population. I assume self-identifying homosexuals in Nazi Germany to be 0%. I presume homosexuals to be ~1-8% of the population.
- Let’s say there were errors and sampling bias in the Nazis’ Jew/Christian/Homosexual v. Ubermensch detection scheme. Christians and Jews tended to suffer false positives, homosexuals tended to suffer false negatives (keep in mind we’re talking almost exclusively homosexual men). If you had seen a Torah you ran the risk of being identified as a Jew whereas homosexuals were often identified ‘the right way’ (found in bed with someone of the same sex).
I guess its an argument of semantics. My comment was that regardless of why the individual was persecuted or their open identification it is likely that many of the Jews and Christians and Others were gay.Similarly I was unaware that the Christians were being killed because of their Christianity. Rather I assumed they were doing something else that was politically unpopular and they happened to be Christian.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
[quote]Kevin_Meaux wrote:
The 5000 number sounds a little off. 5000/12,000,000 is .04% of the people killed. Thats 1 out of every 2500 people. Even if homosexuals weren’t specifically targeted don’t you think the percentage in the general population is a tad higher than that?[/quote]
Well… there were openly gay members of the Nazi party who staved off the persecution of homosexuals until Hitler had them murdered (persecuted?).
Could you be clearer about ‘a tad’? 5-15k killed is the estimate (still considerably less persecution relative to the 6 million Jews, 3 million Christians, and 3 million ‘other’).
Why I don’t doubt that number much at all (avoiding deeper statistical analysis);
- Current studies indicate self-identifying homosexuals to be ~1-4% and homosexuals in general to be ~8% of the population. I assume self-identifying homosexuals in Nazi Germany to be 0%. I presume homosexuals to be ~1-8% of the population.
- Let’s say there were errors and sampling bias in the Nazis’ Jew/Christian/Homosexual v. Ubermensch detection scheme. Christians and Jews tended to suffer false positives, homosexuals tended to suffer false negatives (keep in mind we’re talking almost exclusively homosexual men). If you had seen a Torah you ran the risk of being identified as a Jew whereas homosexuals were often identified ‘the right way’ (found in bed with someone of the same sex).
[/quote]
You estimate that self-identifying gays in Nazi Germany were 0%, and they were only discovered when actually caught in bed with someone of the same sex (presumably a rare occurrence), so why are you surprised at the number of gays in concentration camps?
Also, your estimate seems a little low. From Wiki:
The actual number is irrelevant. The point is that every known homosexual was rounded up and thrown into a concentration camp solely because of his sexuality. Moreover, the pink triangle was considered a mark of the lowest of the low; gays were considered inferior even to Jews and Christians.