Is It Too Late For Me?

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

Hi everybody. I’ll give you a quick rundown of my situation. And try to convince you that I want (need) to change my life. I’ve registered at 4 bodybuilding forms so far, and I’m convinced that this forum has the highest level of experienced lifters and knowledgable articles by far. So here is where I will make my stand.

Quick background. I’m 52. Not only have I not lifted in over 10 years, but my lifestyle could probably best be described as hell bent on self destruction. 5 years addicted to painkillers on a daily basis. And an extremely heavy intake of not only pain killers, but other substance abuse which I won’t go into now. Suffice to say, I feel like a man on the road to hell. Traveling at a high rate of speed.

Well, I’m sick (literally) of this destructive lifestyle. I’ve made the decision to turn this whole mess around and go off in a totally different direction. So…I bought a couple sets of free weights, bench, and made the trip to the vitamin shop.

A good time release multi, msm, and 4 pounds of whey protein powder. To start.
I decided to go with Chad Waterbury’s 3 Day Per Week Full Body Workout with antagonist training. This routine made the most sense to me.

Now, I know I’m gonna have to get something to increase my test levels. I doubt if squats and pork chops are gonna give me enough of an increase to help, considering my age and current state of (or lack of) physical condition.
Can somebody give me an idea of what kind of supplements I should start out with on this journey? Do I need something like Activate Xtreme? Should I be looking at getting something like the Animal paks for a multi?

My energy level is very low at this point. I’m only up to my 3rd workout and definately feeling a huge difference in my body already. But I still feel lathargic all the time. I’m watching my diet, getting plenty of protein, and just generally trying to stay active. Trying to kick these pain killers cold turkey is probably the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life. But, my motivation is high, and I feel confident I’ll make it thru this.

So I guess my first question is, what supplements should I be looking at to get started? I know that’s a broad question. But I don’t know any other way of asking it. I know I need more than just a good multi vitamin.

My second question is, after 8 weeks on this current 3 days a week workout routine, can I go to a split? Is that too soon? If I can go to a split, what type of split would you recommend?
My third question is, do I do cardio on the same day I lift? Or is that for off days? Especially in this beginning phase?

Lord knows I’m not looking to get ripped like all of you guys, not that I ever could. I just want to get back to normal and try to salvage what’s left of my body.
Any and all help will be HIGHLY apreciated guys. You can believe that. Thanks again. Ernie

2

Right off the bat I will say Flameout. Also, consider REZ-V and read up on TRIBEX and Alpha Male as well.

D

3

I would go see your family MD and get some bloodwork done and ask him to check you testosterone. An endoncrinologist would be best but it would probably be longer to get an appointment. An endo would be preferred but I know it takes a while to get an appt. around me. From what I’ve read and personal experience, painkillers hurt testosterone. Here’s a link, there are plenty more. And besides that, you are 52 and should be checked anyway.

All I’m going to say about lifting and cardio is to take it easy. I was kinda where you are a few yrs back. If you’re still sick/withdrawal I would just do basics for now and try not to kill yourself. At 52 your body needs time to recover even if you were in great shape. Easy does it. I know you want to get in shape tomorrow but overdoing it will get you hurt. I don’t think lifting and cardio in the same day is wise.

As for a mult, I’ve been taking Solgar
VM-75 since the 70s. That gives you 75mg of most B complex and it’s as good a multiple as I’ve come across. Also get some digestive enzymes as the pills could have screwed up your digestive system and you might need some help there. You said you are drinking shakes so just add some good food and stay away from sugar.

I’m going for knee surgery tomorrow and am trying to not take any narcotics.

Now two wks ago or so I took a few that were offered and I didn’t really need them.

So when I didn’t need them, I took them, and when I’m going to get cut, I’m not going to take them. That’s WTF I’m thinking with. My friend had to point that out to me.

Good luck

4

[quote]dirty ernie wrote:

A good time release multi, msm, and 4 pounds of whey protein powder. To start.
I decided to go with Chad Waterbury’s 3 Day Per Week Full Body Workout with antagonist training. This routine made the most sense to me.

Now, I know I’m gonna have to get something to increase my test levels. I doubt if squats and pork chops are gonna give me enough of an increase to help, considering my age and current state of (or lack of) physical condition.
Can somebody give me an idea of what kind of supplements I should start out with on this journey? Do I need something like Activate Xtreme? Should I be looking at getting something like the Animal paks for a multi?

My energy level is very low at this point. I’m only up to my 3rd workout and definately feeling a huge difference in my body already. But I still feel lathargic all the time. I’m watching my diet, getting plenty of protein, and just generally trying to stay active. Trying to kick these pain killers cold turkey is probably the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life. But, my motivation is high, and I feel confident I’ll make it thru this.

So I guess my first question is, what supplements should I be looking at to get started? I know that’s a broad question. But I don’t know any other way of asking it. I know I need more than just a good multi vitamin.
[/quote]

Good you’ve taken control. As i understand it analgesics tend to depress testosterone production so just being off them, getting a quality broad vitamin supplement and eating some meat, eggs and a spread of vegetables then adding in regular exercise should get you up an running again. After that, maybe some other supplements can help, but i think you need the above base first.

Expect to notice a little more vigour in a few weeks as your systems come back online. Make sure youve got a doctor onside for all this.

You could add some quality fishoil supplement if your not eating fish, and get some nuts into your diet (more good fats).

Wishing you well in you turnaround.

5

Whey, fishoil and a vitamin will go a long way. Greens+ is great as well. Other than that I’d check in with an MD just to make sure you’re doing OK coming off of the painkillers. The lifting is great. On off days, I’d stick to walking or yoga for a while to get a base fitness (cardio/flexibilty/joint stability) level going. You can do some walking or yoga every day without taxing yourself too much - and it’s great for keeping the spirits up. Best wishes!

6

Thanks guys. I know that a trip to an MD should be my first step, but there is no health insurance to cover that. So, I’m gonna have to do without that help.
As far as opiods lowering test. That is an absolute. I could tell that was happening 5 years ago. I’m sure that getting off them will help my test levels go up, along with diet and exercise. I know squats will help with that.

I just thought a supplement would speed things along. I guess I just want to speed everything along to get past this point where I’m at right now. I figure the more I exercise and get the necessary nutrients into me, the faster I can get past these withdrawal pains.

I know I won’t be doing TOO much at first, simply because I’m not able to at this time. Everything I do takes a tremendous amount of physical and mental effort. If I can survive these next 3 weeks, I figure I’m good to go for the whole trip.

So if I’m understanding this right, cardio on off days, but light? I figure maybe a lot of walking to start.
And I don’t need a test booster? Maybe something like an Animal Stak2? Somehow I can’t seem to get past the idea that everything comes in a pill. Old habits do die hard.

7

I have a couple of cents to throw in here.

Changing your lifestyle is the hardest thing you can possibly do. For the vast majority of the population, it is quite literally impossible. You have to be in this for the long haul or you’re just bullshitting yourself. You’re not going to find the magic supplement and get there any quicker.

Check out the store here for ideas and take what you can afford. High quality supplements are expensive and my recommendation is that you save your money and only think about supplements after you’ve saved up enough to pay for the doctor visit and blood work. Look for free clinics in your area and “present” with the proper symptoms for low testosterone.

The most powerful tool at your disposal is the internet. Everything you need to know is available for free, all you have to do is look for it. Here’s a page with lots of information about testosterone related issues:

As for nutrition… “Eating right” is one of those things that everyone thinks they know how to do but few actually do. If you haven’t seriously studied nutrition in the last five years, you’re in the “no clue” category regardless of what you think. The good news is that an outstanding education in nutrition is available for free! Here’s a great place to start:

www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/index.htm

I wish you all the luck in the world… be steady in your pursuit of change and you won’t need it, you’ll be able to make your own luck. You got yourself into a mess and you can get yourself out of it.

A very wise man told me the secret way to achieve anything I want in life. It takes two things. 1)Unwavering Faith - If you don’t honestly believe that you can do something, then you can’t. Start with believing that you can make any changes in your life that you want to make. 2) A Burning Desire - You must want to change with every ounce of your being. Without a burning desire, then you will accept defeat when it presents itself.

You will have failures. You will have setbacks. Only unwavering faith and a burning desire will keep you pushing on despite the failures and setbacks. You’re the captain of the ship. It goes wherever you steer it.

8

I forgot my centavos on training…

One word: fitness.

Most everyone here takes fitness for granted, but it isn’t a given in your case. Details like when to split train are for guys that are in great shape and need to take their training to the next level. You need to start with basic fitness. If you can’t do 45 minutes at 70% of maximum heart rate, then fitness should be your ONLY training goal. If you don’t know what your maximum heart rate is, then find out. Lift a few weights if you feel like it, but cardio should be 90% of your training until you reach a basic level of fitness.

You’re not a bodybuilder yet, so following bodybuilding routines is counterproductive. Be realistic. Get fit, then think about getting muscular. Start at the beginning, not at the end.

9

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Whey, fishoil and a vitamin will go a long way. Greens+ is great as well. Other than that I’d check in with an MD just to make sure you’re doing OK coming off of the painkillers. The lifting is great. On off days, I’d stick to walking or yoga for a while to get a base fitness (cardio/flexibilty/joint stability) level going. You can do some walking or yoga every day without taxing yourself too much - and it’s great for keeping the spirits up. Best wishes![/quote]

Fish oil. That’s what’s missing. I’d forgotten how important fish oil was for so many things. Including raising test levels. If I remember right though, isn’t flaxseed oil just as beneficial as fish oil?

10

happydog, thanks for the links. Those nutrition articles should keep me busy the rest of the night.

I should mention that I’m actually not without some knowledge of weight training and nutrition. I trained 5 on 2 off for 8 years after spending 1 year building a solid foundation. At that time, we had no internet, so all of my information came from what books I could afford at the time.

Books, and my obligatory subscription to Muscle & Fitness. Hell, my idea of a test booster was Smilax. But I had a solid understanding of nutrition, mainly because I couldn’t afford the expensive supps GNC was peddaling at the time. So I had to do it with food.

But supplements have come a long way since the early 90’s. A very long way. I know they’re not the single most important key to bodybuilding. But I’d like to think there’s a lot of help to be gleaned from a lot of the supplements that are on the market now. Help that can surely speed up the journey. I guess I’m just from the school of get all the help you can get if you can get it.

“You’re not a bodybuilder yet, so following bodybuilding routines is counterproductive. Be realistic. Get fit, then think about getting muscular. Start at the beginning, not at the end.” That’s damn good advice. It made me stop and think about how I’m going about this whole process.

I think I might be getting a little ahead of myself. So I’ve decided to slow things down a little and just settle for getting back to normal. Then I’ll start building a solid foundation.

Everybody who’s offered me advice so far has said to go slow. To be honest with myself, I don’t think I have any choice BUT to go slow. So be it. I think I’ll get there faster if I go slower. This is the reason I decided to go on this forum to ask for help.

I knew I couldn’t be objective enough, or clearheaded enough to put this all together myself. Like I said, I’m from the school of get all the help you can get if you can get it. And I appreciate the input guys. Thank you. Ernie

11

At our age (I’m 54) listening to our bodies is important. It’ll let you know when you can speed up or need to slow down, what is working and what isn’t, etc.

“Fast is slow, slow is fast” applies to us formerly-fit-and-getting-back-into-shape 50-somethings. Hopefully the wisdom that comes with age - if we use it - compensates for our attenuated physiology.

Good luck!

12

[quote]dirty ernie wrote:
Fish oil. That’s what’s missing. I’d forgotten how important fish oil was for so many things. Including raising test levels. If I remember right though, isn’t flaxseed oil just as beneficial as fish oil?
[/quote]

There is a lot of controversy about flax. What isn’t disputed is that lignan binds to testosterone. Bound testosterone isn’t available to testosterone receptors. That’s all I need to know about flax. Any of the supposed “health benefits” of flax can also be found in foods that don’t bind testosterone.

13

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
There is a lot of controversy about flax. What isn’t disputed is that lignan binds to testosterone. Bound testosterone isn’t available to testosterone receptors. That’s all I need to know about flax. Any of the supposed “health benefits” of flax can also be found in foods that don’t bind testosterone.
[/quote]

H-Dawg:
Throw me the info backing this up, I need it to refute a few sub-morons I know preaching the flax gospel to me ad nauseum! I’m gonna’ tell em’their balls’l shrink on that flax shit, and watch their jowls drop!..Muhahahahahah!(rubbing hands in evil glee)/;-D

14

Wheat germ and zinc for test. Fish oil for inflammation. Magnesium and calcium for muscular contraction and heart health. Glutamine to help repair intestinal tissues for food absorption. MSM for joints _ the kind you bend, not the other kind.

Fresh greens and b vitamins for brain chemical support (CNS support). Lotsa veggies and fruit for carbs and of course, protein and goood fats.

Think about saunas for detoxing if you still need to do that and drink a lot of water. A LOT of water.

15

You have your work cut out for you after five years of pain killer abuse and other substances, NA, you know the 12 step program, may be in order and i’m not tryin to be funny, I’m in recovery myself and for me no recovery no gym!!!Happydog48 gave you some very good advice.

and i have to tell you i have a very full plate, work (in a treatment center),gym, and them DAM meetings but you can do it!!!
P.S. wish my clients would get of there ass’s and repair there bodys.

16

[quote]dirty ernie wrote:
Thanks guys. I know that a trip to an MD should be my first step, but there is no health insurance to cover that. So, I’m gonna have to do without that help.
[/quote]

Costs of TRT.

10ml of test cyp 200mg/ml at 100mg(.5ml)/week lasts 20 weeks. Cost is $100 at Walgreen’s, $42 (102.20/yr) at Sam’s Club with a business membership.

10,000iu of HCG at Sam’s Club is $16.25. At 250iu EOD, that is $74.15/yr.

100 .5ml .5" insulin syringes (can be used for the T and HCG) $12.62 at Walmart or Sam’s. You can get by with 2 syringes every 8 days, so one box will last 400 days.

Arimidex/anastrozole at 1mg/wk. 60mg in liquid for $50 plus shipping.

Annual cost, less than $200 for the above if you can get a Sam’s Club business membership, otherwise close to $400. If you can get your doc to keep visit costs down and not go nuts with lab work, you can manage this out of pocket. You can do the lab work on your own via LEF.org for less than the doctor will charge. And if you hit the LEF annual blood work sale, all the better.

17

[quote]skidmark wrote:
Wheat germ and zinc for test. Fish oil for inflammation. Magnesium and calcium for muscular contraction and heart health. Glutamine to help repair intestinal tissues for food absorption. MSM for joints _ the kind you bend, not the other kind.

Fresh greens and b vitamins for brain chemical support (CNS support). Lotsa veggies and fruit for carbs and of course, protein and goood fats.

Think about saunas for detoxing if you still need to do that and drink a lot of water. A LOT of water.[/quote]

Ok. I filled this list except for the mag/calc. I remember taking ZMA before and I spent a lot of reading time in the bathroom. But I got everything else. Some of it I’ve already been doing. Including a lot of water. Thanks skidmark.

18

Ok, quick update on my situation. My son called me up looking for help. I guess he decided this was the summer he would replace the roof on his house. So of course, me being a good father and woefully lacking in common sense, I volunteered my services. 12 hours in the fresh air and sun tearing off a 28 square roof is probably equivilent to 1 week in a detox facility.

So much for my slow down and take it easy approach to my return to health. I got home last night and ate like a sumo, took my supps, pm’d a few friends, and went to bed. Last night was the first 9 hours of uninterupted “sleep” I’ve gotten in a week. That’s how long it’s been since I started my journey back to health.

I got up this morning and other than being stiff and damn sore, I actually feel like a normal human being. So…I figure 3 more days of this roofing, God I hate roofing, I may actually be ready for the lifting routine I originally had started.

Reminds me of the old saying, what don’t kill us, can only make us stronger. And a little hard work never killed anybody.

Good thing I got started on the msm last week.
Isn’t it amazing how a little hard work and fresh air can bring a man back from the abyss?
Anyway, just wanted to thank you guys again for all the help and encouragement. Ernie

19

With having some experience in the past, you should develop quicker then if you never worked out in your life.

I am convinced that most of the degeneration people experience later in life is preventable, and every day people put off getting in shape is a step in the wrong direction.

One thing to keep in mind is not to go overboard. Many people start a healthy lifestyle, and think they have to do everything right from day one. Like a person who decides to start running, (ugh) and is in a marathon the following week.

It doesn’t hurt to start out slowly, and try to improve in some way each week.

I only give this advice because I have too often seen people go overboard, get burned out, then drop out, resulting in years before coming back if ever.

Another piece of advice, read 2 articles from this website each day. 14 a week. That will cover the 5 most recent, plus another 9 older (archived) articles. You will be surprised at how much you will learn.

Fish oil may be the best supplement you can take. I do take the Flameout sold here, if only because I only need to take 4 a day instead of 20, or 12+ of the concentrated.

Fish oil is practically the closest thing to a wonder drug there is. Reduced inflammation, reduced triglycerides, reduced cancer risk, healthier skin and joints, and an improved ability to gain muscle, and lose fat.

All other supplements are not as important as getting your diet in order. A good diet is 10 times more important then any supplement. Here is a great place to start:

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=291seven2

20

First, congratulations on turning your life around and kicking the painkillers.

Now that you’ve made up your mind to change, you’ve found a great place for information and support. You’ll find lots of very knowledgable people on this board plus tons of great articles on nutrition, fitness, panty bin diving, etc.
(I’ve been reading T-mag since 1999 and believe me, you will be amazed at the info in the archives!)

I’ll just second what you’ve been told. Start slow and build a good base again without injuring yourself. As we get older that is more important because it gets harder and harder to heal quickly.

Also it sounds like you’ve found that the roofing is giving you a good full body workout, just like you were doing in the gym. I’d say stick with that for a while. Change up the exercises so you don’t get bored, maybe add some that you don’t normally see, like overhead squats. They are great for full body training.

You might want to look into some GPP exercises as well, like wheelbarrow pushes or sled drags if you have a place for that. This will help your overall fitness level and keep you from getting bored.

Mostly, just stick with whatever you decide to do. Doing anything productive is better than doing nothing at all.