Need Some Help

Pharma / TRT
1

I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, but I am reading, reading, reading (and I have used search), and I still cannot find the answers to my questions.

I’m 43. I tore my shoulder up when I was 20, and to make a long story short, I just never got back to the gym until 3 years ago.

I eat like a horse and a half, and drink like two camels. The way I see it, if I don’t get big now, I won’t ever get big; and that’s not an option.

My problem is that I’m 43. I am pretty sure I can grow some more (I put on some more pounds last month), but basically without a hormone boost of some kind, I get only two+ dig-deep workouts each week, and then my overall energy levels are shot.

My old trainer told me to try doctor-prescribed AAS. It was great. I was able to train really hard 4 times a week, and my overall poundages went up something like half, but the service was (literally) frightening.

With Deca and SusTest I had swelling in my feet so bad that they were turning purple; and then one spot on my foot started to go black, and the rep said he would schedule an appointment AFTER the Labor Day weekend(!), to talk with the doctor. That was pretty much the last time I talked to him.

So I panicked. I had some Gaspari Novedex XT, and it said “anti-estrogen” on the label. I took 4 each day, and in two days the swelling was down 90% (and in three days the swelling was down 95%). I did that for a month (basically for the anti-estrogen effect), and then tapered it off. That was, I think, early October.

After about a month off of Novedex XT, I felt pretty week. The bottle said “Testosterone Booster,” and even though I was a little bit gun shy, I had already tried the Novedex, and it had helped me (so I thought I would try it as a test booster). This is week three.

I’m not real sure, but I think it may actually really work, because my bench was up about 70 pounds (plus the chains), and preacher curls went up from 80 to 120.

So I’m pretty happy with Gaspari and Novedex. If I understand, I can take it for five more weeks, and then I have to lay off it for 4-6 weeks. So do I do nothing but tribulus and creatine (and maybe caffeine-free Spike) in that off-time?

And is the 6-8 week rule with the Novedex a solid rule? Can you go longer, or are there sides/shutdowns with Novedex? Or does the body pretty well adapt, and you need to try something else? And if you try something else, how long do you have to wait before you try something else?

So I’m sold on Novedex, but after the Cypionate and the SusTest, I think there must be something more. I got an ad about a six bottle stack with 1-Androsterone, Methyl MasterDrol and Arom-X. They said one had to “act now, because soon the MMD will be gone forever…” so like an idiot I bought it before doing any research on the products.

Now I find out that methyl compounds are hepatoxic (which is why they were made illegal in the first place…duh); but I also read that if one starts taking celery seed,milk thistle, hawthorne and r-alpha-lipoic acid a week before one goes on cycle, then the liver should be OK (at least for one cycle); and then for my next cycle I can purchase something less toxic?

I don’t mean to be ignorant, and it was pretty stupid to bite on the ad without doing some research, but now that the product is on the way, I am curious to try it, if for no other reason than to find out what else is out there. However, I still have some questions, and would really appreciate some help from someone who knows what’s going on:

How long should I wait after my 8 weeks of Novedex XT before I start the 1-Androsterone and the Methyl Masterdrol?

If I understand correctly, I only start taking the Arom-X the day after my last 1-AD and MMD, unless I start getting swelling in my feet (or itchy nipples)?

Then once the Arom-X is done, I cycle back to the herbs/tribulus and the creatine ethyl ester (CellMass) for 4-6 weeks before I do another pro-hormone stack?

And is Trenadrol really non-aromatizing? and/or is there something better than Trenadrol?

I know all this pro-hormone stuff is supposed to be hard on your liver and kidneys, but I’m 43, so if I don’t get big now, it probably won’t ever happen.

I apologize for the length of this letter, but if you guys could please help get me pointed in the right direction, it would really help. Weight training has changed my life for the better in so many ways, and I just can’t go back to just 2+ workouts a week.

Thank you,

ServeHim

2

My suggestion Drop the kitchen made poison (designer prohormones) and get tested see if you are in need of HRT and if so get prscribes test. Safe and effective

Thats my take from skimming your post.
Oh and nail a solid diet and training without those it wont matter how much and what you take.

Phill

3

Hi Phill. Thanks for responding.

I’ve got probably the cleanest diet of anyone I know. 500 grams protein a day, lots of good, clean carbos, clean oils and fats (nuts). I’ve got a good trainer now, and yes, you’re right, it helps a lot. (Now if I could just find a reliable lifting buddy!)

Sorry my post bored you. I was trying to include all of the information that the usual crowd flames you if they don’t find, but I was also trying to keep it as short as I could.

I don’t know if you read it, but I tried prescription AAS. It was a total nightmare. I had all kinds of aromatization, and the guy would not help me. My feet were so swollen they were purple, and one spot was turning black. That kind of turned me off to doctor-prescribed anything. Those guys are supposed to be the pros? I honestly think that if I just keep on reading, I can do better.

It would really bless me a lot if you would please re-read what I wrote. I spent several hours trying to cut out anything that was not pertinent.

Thank you again for your help.

ServeHim

4

[quote]ServeHim wrote:
Hi Phill. Thanks for responding.

I’ve got probably the cleanest diet of anyone I know. 500 grams protein a day, lots of good, clean carbos, clean oils and fats (nuts). I’ve got a good trainer now, and yes, you’re right, it helps a lot. (Now if I could just find a reliable lifting buddy!)

Sorry my post bored you. I was trying to include all of the information that the usual crowd flames you if they don’t find, but I was also trying to keep it as short as I could.

I don’t know if you read it, but I tried prescription AAS. It was a total nightmare. I had all kinds of aromatization, and the guy would not help me. My feet were so swollen they were purple, and one spot was turning black. That kind of turned me off to doctor-prescribed anything. Those guys are supposed to be the pros? I honestly think that if I just keep on reading, I can do better.

It would really bless me a lot if you would please re-read what I wrote. I spent several hours trying to cut out anything that was not pertinent.

Thank you again for your help.

ServeHim[/quote]

Bro yhea you didnt bore I just well I dont know. ’

I have no idea what endoc would prescribe Deca and sust here in the states. Yhea you likely had water bloat and other estrogenic effects. Plus MAJOR shut down.

then you chase that and try and combat the sides with a OTC supplement said to be an antiestrogen. One that uses the common litle gimmic of using a name close to a real and effective drug for said purpose, Nolvadex/Tamoxifen.

I think you have a lot more readin to do sorry bro. I alsi thing youd be best off to not use those supps you list tryint tio chase off these symptoms of lack of energy etc then your cming off again with toy drugs fighting an army with a paper airplane.

I think you need to take the time go to REAL doc get tested and find out what is wrong. Then if needed get prescribed Test C or E in the proper doses etc. and if an anti aromataze is needed then yes they should give it. Not a bunch of deca and sust.

Other than that if you do want to continue with the designer steroids and other things in stead do your self a favor read a LOT more get proper drugs to come off cycle and expect to feel not so great. Also educate yourself fully and be aware of the side effects etc.

Its great you have a solid diet and training, dont muck it up by half arsing powerful supplements. Find the REAL cause of your problems and address therm accordingly

Phill

5

Hi Phill.

I really appreciate your effort to help. You seem civil (in contrast to most), and Mod Lisa Marie says you know what’s what, so I’m listening.

Are there any decent legal PTC’s, in your opinion? Or are all of the truly effective ones (Nolva, Clomid) illegal or by prescription only?

I guess what’s confusing me is that I got done wrong by a supposedly top-notch HRT company, and their anti-E anastrozoles did not work at all, whereas the OTC PTC brought the swelling right down. Do you think I just got a bad rep (one-time fluke), and that I should try again?

I appreciate that the established gear is a lot safer than the stuff they are trying to push through the loopholes to make $. The issue for me is one of cost, and one of legality. I cannot do anything illegal (my faith), and the cost of the HRT-prescribed gear is huge.

Why did they make the established stuff illegal, anyhow? I understand that there are risks, but there are risks to driving a car. There are risks to scuba diving, and skydiving; but all the government makes you do in those instances is to take a class, and understand how to recognize (and then avoid) the dangers.

So why don’t they just make adults (over 30 or something) take a class? Why illegalize the whole thing for everybody? Is there a good reason? Or was it just another random legal act put in place by bureaucrats who did not know what a better option was?

I’ll take your advice, and keep on reading. Thank you for all of your help.

ServeHim.

7

I think somewhere in the Bible it states ‘Obey the law of the land’ But anyways, they were made illegal for a variety of different reasons. This is just speculation, but I think they were made illegal because a lot of people who didn’t ‘need’ them (healthy individuals of age 35 or below) were using them.

They are not legal because they can cause health problems and have side effects. You need to do more research probably…?

8

IMO taking otc trenadrol ect is a gamble with your health and shouldn’t even be considered since they havent’t been researched like real aas has. I think you know that you are making a decision between your health (taking OTC junk), your faith, and your size. good luck

9

i know its nothing like aas or otc prohormones, but flaxseed oil or pills aren’t bad

10

I’m really thankful to Phill and you all for asking me to do some more research. I spoke last night with the gym owner. He says he has two friends who he grew up with, who took steroids. One of them was even in M&F for a while, but he is in Hawaii now, with a trashed liver and frail bones. The other guy developed a severe liver infection, and almost died. Another friend lost all renal control, and was urinating blood. These guys were all fine for 20 years, and then whammo: time bomb effect.

From what he said, taking AAS is like burning your candle (your liver) at both ends. You get a lot more light, but the candle does not last as long. He said pro-hormones are pretty much like burning the candle in four or five different places, because the liver has to clean up the test so much.

We also talked about possible causes for why I was getting so tired. I hate to admit this, but I think my form may have had a lot to do with it. I think I was cheating really badly (without intending to), using my whole body to power the weight up, rather than just isolating the muscle like I should be doing. Rather than taxing the one single muscle group, it taps into my whole-body energy level.
Kind of lame to be finding that out now, but better late than never, I suppose. (I felt pretty good after yesterday’s workout. Not nearly as drained.)

I also need to eat right after a workout. In addition to the shake in the locker room, I think I need to eat a full meal just as soon as I get home from the gym, or my insulin crashes hard (and it affects me more than I realized).

Thank you to everyone who took time to help.

ServeHim

11

[quote]muscle_mike wrote:
I think somewhere in the Bible it states ‘Obey the law of the land’ But anyways, they were made illegal for a variety of different reasons. This is just speculation, but I think they were made illegal because a lot of people who didn’t ‘need’ them (healthy individuals of age 35 or below) were using them.

They are not legal because they can cause health problems and have side effects. You need to do more research probably…?[/quote]

The quotation in question is Romans 13:1-8, as well as 1st Peter 2:17 (as well as a few others.

Thank you.

ServeHim

12

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I was wondering about your name, until you mentioned your faith. I didn’t realise that faith required an individual to adhere to a set of pretty arbitrary laws, set by politicians, who, lets face it, have ulterior motives for everything that they say and do. Adhere to your own moral code, and the tenets of your religion, but not those minor laws that are there to curb personal freedom. Thats my opinion anyway, lol. Back to your question. ‘proper’ anti-es are not technically illegal. They can be purchased on the understanding that they are for animal research only. This is a loophole - everyone who buys them, uses them on themselves, not on their fictional ‘research animals’. There is no way that the steroids you took should have made your feet swell up. No way at all. That was most bizarre, and not something that I can think of a reason for. I suspect that the novodex had sweet f*ckall to do with your recovery, and that it was simply time and your body that sorted the issue out.[/quote]

Hey Bushido.

Dude, this would be off-topic, except I don’t know that t-mag has a religion section here??

I used to think Judeo-Christianity was totally nuts. It is a long story, but I was a Zen master (I was offered ordination, and all that). I was way, way into the eastern arts, I-Ching, divination, all of that.

I know what you are saying about the government having ulterior motives. That’s all true…but there’s more than one explanation for that, and the Scriptures speak to that also.

And as stupid as I used to think Judeo-Christianity was, when He talks to you out of thin air (and no, I was not stoned), it really changes your frame of reference, if you know what I mean.

Now I look at Darwin, and I realize what a bunch of hogwash it is.

Be well,

ServeHim

13

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
There is no way that the steroids you took should have made your feet swell up. No way at all. That was most bizarre, and not something that I can think of a reason for. I suspect that the novodex had sweet f*ckall to do with your recovery, and that it was simply time and your body that sorted the issue out.[/quote]

Dude, all I know is that my feet were swollen up for weeks; and they were turning purple (and one spot was even starting to turn black). The guy on the phone wouldn’t help me. I took the Gaspari Novedex and the swelling was down 90% in two days…zoom.

Coincidence? Placebo effect? I dunno. I just think I may need to look at other ways to get there from here (starting with my form).

Anyone know if the Caffeine-Free Spike tabs or Gaspari Novedex has any long-lasting liver-related problems, like with AAS and PH?

Thanks much,

ServeHim.

14

[quote]kickbxer wrote:
i know its nothing like aas or otc prohormones, but flaxseed oil or pills aren’t bad[/quote]

Hey Kickbxer,

Yeah, my dad had open-heart surgery four years ago (age 72?) so flax seed and lecithin has been in my diet ever since. I’m even starting to like the taste of it(?!?)

But what’s the deal with BCAA’s? I thought they put those in the protein shakes…so does one need to take more BCAA pills on top of the BCAA’s that they put in the shakes (Isopure)?

I guess at my age, helping my body synthesize protein is going to be the top thing.

Thanks