[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
People who use a ‘wrap’ or wrap their midsection with some cloth in order to accelerate fat-loss/consider it ‘targeted weight loss’ [/quote]
Jay Cutler did this when doing cardio during his prep for last years Olympia. [/quote]
Then it MUST work : )
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
People who use a ‘wrap’ or wrap their midsection with some cloth in order to accelerate fat-loss/consider it ‘targeted weight loss’ [/quote]
Jay Cutler did this when doing cardio during his prep for last years Olympia. [/quote]
Do you personally find this to be effective? I’m not sure I see a correlation.
We wear clothes every single day of our life, some EXTRA clothing on your body is supposed to make you suddenly shed fat, quicker, more optimally in a significant way? I don’t buy it.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
People who use a ‘wrap’ or wrap their midsection with some cloth in order to accelerate fat-loss/consider it ‘targeted weight loss’ [/quote]
Jay Cutler did this when doing cardio during his prep for last years Olympia. [/quote]
Do you personally find this to be effective? I’m not sure I see a correlation.
We wear clothes every single day of our life, some EXTRA clothing on your body is supposed to make you suddenly shed fat, quicker, more optimally in a significant way? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]
cloth or some tight neoprene sleeve? and what is significant? Jay Cutler was a pro where every mm of fat counts.
A sleeve pressing up against a certain point on your body tends to make it hotter, add that to cardio and it really heats up. Add to that it has slightly more pressure to squeeze nutrients out and cells start getting smaller. Considering the current science says we never lose fat cells, the difference between being fat and not in one area is how big that cell is. So why wouldn’t it work?
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
People who use a ‘wrap’ or wrap their midsection with some cloth in order to accelerate fat-loss/consider it ‘targeted weight loss’ [/quote]
Jay Cutler did this when doing cardio during his prep for last years Olympia. [/quote]
Do you personally find this to be effective? I’m not sure I see a correlation.
We wear clothes every single day of our life, some EXTRA clothing on your body is supposed to make you suddenly shed fat, quicker, more optimally in a significant way? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]
I think the goal is not to necessarily shed fat directly, but to increase blood flow to the area. Theoretically metabolizing more of the fat in the area. There is a abs/cardio routine by CT(I think) that tries to use a similar concept(increasing blood flow to the area).
I personally think it is not useful to even try it unless you are preping for a high level bodybuilding show. Who knows what the actual effect is.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Pantherhare wrote:
But would you advise a beginner or even an intermediate train that way? (not challenging, just curious) The conventional wisdom seems to be, build up a base of strength, then focus on the quality of the reps (mind-muscle connection, continuous tension, etc.). However isn’t quality stimulation still quality stimulation even if we’re talking about a skinny fat beginner vs an experienced pro bodybuilder like yourself?[/quote]
Well, I think any experienced trainer would tell you that at the beginner stages, strength gains are sometimes all that you have to go on in terms of progress. As such, keeping logs can be very important. Still, I would emphasize actually creating a situation where the muscle is sufficiently stressed compared to just “moving” progressively heavier loads around each week with poor form, and spotters taking most of the work off of the lifter.
People talk about building up a strength base, and I agree with this to some degree. If you’re dealing with a complete newbie, someone who has had absolutely no experience subjecting him or herself to any regular situations of physical exertion, then they more than likely have never had to develop a strength level beyond just walking about town every day. Once any type of progressive resistance program, is undertaken, a dramatic shift in neurological efficiency takes place, where they become better at the repeated tasks.
This has absolutely nothing to do with any actual increase in muscle tissue. The body will decide (given optimal circumstances created by rest, nutrition, and repeated sessions) when it actually needs to add more muscle, provided the stress you’re subjecting it to is sufficient.
As you said, Quality Stimulation is key no matter what level you’re at. I was trying to stress that the often quoting (especially many years ago) gym dogma of “just get stronger and you’ll get bigger” is fairly off base in its inherent simplicity.
S [/quote]
Thanks for this. How about beyond that? How do you progress once you’re no longer a newbie? Do you think I can get bigger by using the same weight for 2 years or so? Or are there other variables one should try to improve? Thanks again in advanced Stu!
That muscles can’t be ‘shaped’.
I have just read 4 academic journals (there are more, I think) where they saw significantly greater hypertrophy in one section of the same muscle compared to the rest, i.e in the vastus lateralis, hypertrophy was greater distally at the knee than proximally at the hip. There are various theories as to why, but the fact is that muscles don’t just grow equally from tendon to tendon. Ha! This might or might not be surprising to some!!
These studies used MRI too. Gold standard measurement tool.
Now, if you don’t have biceps peaks like Arnold, then it’s probably not good news, you ain’t gonna get them from all the preacher curls or concentration curls in the world, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try!
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
People who use a ‘wrap’ or wrap their midsection with some cloth in order to accelerate fat-loss/consider it ‘targeted weight loss’ [/quote]
Jay Cutler did this when doing cardio during his prep for last years Olympia. [/quote]
Do you personally find this to be effective? I’m not sure I see a correlation.
We wear clothes every single day of our life, some EXTRA clothing on your body is supposed to make you suddenly shed fat, quicker, more optimally in a significant way? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]
Jay Cutler was a pro where every mm of fat counts.
[/quote]
This makes sense. Also, is it excluded that it was blood-flow for pain relief or anti inflammation?
“My bf percentage is X”.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
“My bf percentage is X”.[/quote]
Misleading… =P
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
That muscles can’t be ‘shaped’.
I have just read 4 academic journals (there are more, I think) where they saw significantly greater hypertrophy in one section of the same muscle compared to the rest, i.e in the vastus lateralis, hypertrophy was greater distally at the knee than proximally at the hip. There are various theories as to why, but the fact is that muscles don’t just grow equally from tendon to tendon. Ha! This might or might not be surprising to some!!
These studies used MRI too. Gold standard measurement tool.
Now, if you don’t have biceps peaks like Arnold, then it’s probably not good news, you ain’t gonna get them from all the preacher curls or concentration curls in the world, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try![/quote]
That’s really cool and it backs up my real world experiences!
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
That muscles can’t be ‘shaped’.
I have just read 4 academic journals (there are more, I think) where they saw significantly greater hypertrophy in one section of the same muscle compared to the rest, i.e in the vastus lateralis, hypertrophy was greater distally at the knee than proximally at the hip. There are various theories as to why, but the fact is that muscles don’t just grow equally from tendon to tendon. Ha! This might or might not be surprising to some!!
These studies used MRI too. Gold standard measurement tool.
Now, if you don’t have biceps peaks like Arnold, then it’s probably not good news, you ain’t gonna get them from all the preacher curls or concentration curls in the world, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try![/quote]
Arm Blaster!
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
Now, if you don’t have biceps peaks like Arnold, then it’s probably not good news, you ain’t gonna get them from all the preacher curls or concentration curls in the world, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try![/quote]
Problem is, Arnold’s biceps didn’t even look like Arnold’s biceps. His two bis were different shapes. If anything, that should go towards disproving the “you can shape a muscle” and reinforce that a muscle’s ultimate shape when developed is basically genetic, not exercise-dependent.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Arm Blaster![/quote]
Can I just say… screw arm blasters. I had one break on me mid-rep years ago and I’ve never wanted to try it again.
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
That muscles can’t be ‘shaped’.
I have just read 4 academic journals (there are more, I think) where they saw significantly greater hypertrophy in one section of the same muscle compared to the rest, i.e in the vastus lateralis, hypertrophy was greater distally at the knee than proximally at the hip. There are various theories as to why, but the fact is that muscles don’t just grow equally from tendon to tendon. Ha! This might or might not be surprising to some!!
[/quote]
Just because hypertrophy was greater in one section than another doesn’t mean that you can do anything about which area that is. Which means these studies DON’T prove you can ‘shape’ your muscles. I don’t know anyone who thought muscles grew the same ‘from tendon to tendon’ in the first place.
Are you sure you read ‘academic journals’? Are you sure you didn’t read ‘abstracts from academic journals’ or even ‘an article that mentioned 4 academic journals’? Your basic misunderstanding of the ‘evidence’ here gives me a clue as to the answer to this question…
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I had one break on me mid-rep years ago [/quote]
How many 45’s did you have on each side of the bar hulkster? 
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I had one break on me mid-rep years ago [/quote]
How many 45’s did you have on each side of the bar hulkster?
S[/quote]
All of them.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I had one break on me mid-rep years ago [/quote]
How many 45’s did you have on each side of the bar hulkster?
S[/quote]
All of them.[/quote]
I need to pull my armblaster back out and break it. And if I can’t, I will send it to you Mr. Colucci =D.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Arm Blaster![/quote]
Can I just say… screw arm blasters. I had one break on me mid-rep years ago and I’ve never wanted to try it again.[/quote]
Sure!
I had one when I was about 12 or 13 when I might have weighed 75 lbs, and that thing was like wearing half of a hula hoop. I don’t know if it worked or not but I used it like I was going to actually get arms like Arnold.
Between that thing and the weight gainer Xthousand I came in for my 7th grade wrestling season ready to tear some people up. (hahaha)
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
Now, if you don’t have biceps peaks like Arnold, then it’s probably not good news, you ain’t gonna get them from all the preacher curls or concentration curls in the world, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try![/quote]
Problem is, Arnold’s biceps didn’t even look like Arnold’s biceps. His two bis were different shapes. If anything, that should go towards disproving the “you can shape a muscle” and reinforce that a muscle’s ultimate shape when developed is basically genetic, not exercise-dependent.
Absolutely. Like I was trying to say humorously you aren’t going to make any significant changes in the overall shape of your muscles. Only that growth isn’t totally uniform, which I thought was kinda cool.
Peptides?
Myostatin-Blockers?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
That muscles can’t be ‘shaped’.
I have just read 4 academic journals (there are more, I think) where they saw significantly greater hypertrophy in one section of the same muscle compared to the rest, i.e in the vastus lateralis, hypertrophy was greater distally at the knee than proximally at the hip. There are various theories as to why, but the fact is that muscles don’t just grow equally from tendon to tendon. Ha! This might or might not be surprising to some!!
[/quote]
Just because hypertrophy was greater in one section than another doesn’t mean that you can do anything about which area that is. Which means these studies DON’T prove you can ‘shape’ your muscles. I don’t know anyone who thought muscles grew the same ‘from tendon to tendon’ in the first place.
Are you sure you read ‘academic journals’? Are you sure you didn’t read ‘abstracts from academic journals’ or even ‘an article that mentioned 4 academic journals’? Your basic misunderstanding of the ‘evidence’ here gives me a clue as to the answer to this question…[/quote]
My apologies, I don’t know how to quote properly on this site, so a wall of yellow text it is.
Even though your reply is condescending and whiny, I will reply as best I can.
I never said prove. Nor would I ever suggest it based on 4 papers. I just said that some researchers (Housh et al,1992 (Narici et al, 1996) found that muscle growth is not uniform throughout the muscle, therefore someone doing a similar exercise protocol might see similar preferential hypertrophy at the knee. Conversely, this paper ‘Training-Specific Muscle Architecture Adaptation after 5-wk Training in Athletes’ found that squatting, hack squatting and squat jumps stimulated hypertrophy proximally. This to me, suggests a shaping effect under any meaningful definition. Like I said in my original post, you aren’t going to dramatically change the overall shape of your muscles, only that you may be able to bring up a portion of that muscle at the expense of other portions depending on the stress/exercise applied. How dramatic this will be or could be, I have no idea, and I did not in any way suggest otherwise in my post.
You don’t know anyone who thinks muscle grows the same throughout…great. I know loads. And I hear it, read it all the time on the Internet, hence why I posted this apparently offensive post in this here thread.
And yeah, I read the WHOLE fucking paper. Each one. It’s pretty crazy.
All in all, I couldn’t really give a shit. I was just trying to highlight something to everyone that I wasn’t aware of previously and thought was cool.