The biggest key is just to not let all the information cause paralysis by analysis. Don’t worry about getting things perfect, just start paying attention to some fatigue and performance indicators and see what frequency/fatigue scale you do best on.
Squattin,
I remember you saying, though I can’t seem to find it, that ISO GMs, single leg ISO GMs, etc. would help to develop hamstring stiffness. I was wondering why this is the case. I always viewed stiffness (the desirable kind of course) as being a MAG action- if that makes any sense. Basically the force has to be displayed quickly so as to promote “dynamic minimization”, while ISOs train you to hold onto/develop tension but not at the speeds necessary for good stiffness.
Maybe I’m missing something or misinterpreted you but it would be great if you could explain the concept.
Thanks,
Ian
bigTR,
It wasn’t directed at me, but here are some reasons why:
1.) Most obviously, you have to have max strength to have reactivity. That is, if you can’t stabilize a certain amount of force isometrically, you sure as hell won’t be able to stabilize it dynamically. It’s similar to doing stiff-legged depth drops. If you can’t properly absorb a normal depth drop from a certain height, doing it stiff-legged is just going to be counter-productive.
2.) Most people have trouble firing their hamstrings and getting them to “lock up” properly in order to reverse force. Isometrics are a great way to do this.
Also there has been some research showing that the longer you hold an isometric the greater the stiffness improvements.
so in DB speak using ISO’s in the An-2 bracet improves stiffness
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
if you go to higher-faster-sports(dot)com Kelly has a mini article about the hi-lo system (basically CFTS)
From there just train short to long[/quote]
I’ll have to reread that one too, seems a lot didn’t stick. I do understand the basic premise of the system but I’ll have to dig deeper into it.
Thanks.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
The biggest key is just to not let all the information cause paralysis by analysis. Don’t worry about getting things perfect, just start paying attention to some fatigue and performance indicators and see what frequency/fatigue scale you do best on.[/quote]
Yeah thanks, paralysis by analysis is a big problem in everything I do. As of now, I’m trying to dumb it down a little… I’m focusing on dropoffs and improving strength. I’m figuring I’ll do my main big lifts just straight PIM until the improvements stop. Then I’ll maybe look into DB’s strength templates outlined in the article we discussed about a few posts ago.
As for the other stuff, I’ll have to keep it simple with them as well.
Interesting discussion about isometrics…
So would this mean that when I want to improve my PF stiffness, ISO holds in the An-2 bracket would help?
I’m assuming this all just ties into the fact about having strength to absorb force/power before developing it, like jt mentioned in the above post?
How do you deal with muscle pulls?
I pulled my left hamstring about 1.5 weeks ago, so far I’ve been doing ice, contrast showers, stretching and dynamic mobility.
Jtrin,
Thanks for the response.
Squattin,
I can see why the ISOs help for the reasons that Jtrin outlined above. I am not disagreeing about long ISOs being best for increasing stiffness but I just can’t quite conceptualize why this would be. I believe Siff kind of discounted their ability to increase strength. He said that since failure is reached because of metabolic waste the weights used would be too low (correct me if I’m wrong here). I don’t know how else these ISOs would increase stiffness better than short duration ISO with a much heavier weight.
Thanks
Ian
Hmm… Good stuff. Regarding long duration ISO’s, I believe you may be correct to an extent.
Unrelatedly
It has been shown that depriving a muscle of blood/O2 increases hypertrophy (this was done with a BP cuff). Hypertrophy generally can lead to increases in strength. However I am willing to concede that point to you because I am too lazy to dig up research to the contrary.
Back to the topic
Here is where I think you may be off base (a little). Strength and stiffness are not synonymous. Actually they lie on opposite ends of the spectrum.
So strength may be the ability to squat 600lbs,
Stiffness is the ability of your muscles to lock up instantly in a high speed movement, plantar flexors upon foot strike in the sprint to allow the achilles tendon to propel/generate movement.
So in INNO-speak strength is DUR, Stiffness is RATE.
So now you’re probably thinking
“Well if stiffness is RATE then why does long duration ISO (DUR) improve stiffness more than shor duration ISO’s?”
I don’t know why. That is just what was demonstrated in one study I am familiar with.
Well it’s at least food for thought
[quote]bigTR wrote:
Jtrin,
Thanks for the response.
Squattin,
I can see why the ISOs help for the reasons that Jtrin outlined above. I am not disagreeing about long ISOs being best for increasing stiffness but I just can’t quite conceptualize why this would be. I believe Siff kind of discounted their ability to increase strength. He said that since failure is reached because of metabolic waste the weights used would be too low (correct me if I’m wrong here). I don’t know how else these ISOs would increase stiffness better than short duration ISO with a much heavier weight.
Thanks
Ian[/quote]
squattin,
Good post as always.
For a little more food for thought, I’m going to post up my training cycle for the next 3 weeks, possibly 6 because I might run through it twice. The focus is on continuing to build maximal strength with a focus on explosive or starting strength. Right now I feel my reactivity is pretty strong.
It’ll be a 4:1 frequency:fatigue cycle, pairing up DUR An-1 with DUR An-2 for the frequency workouts with a MAG An-1 day for the fatigue. Since I’ll be training total-body, each cycle will only take 3 weeks, training Mondays and Thursdays (except for the fatigue session).
DUR An-1
1.) MIO Pull-Up, N x 1 rep
2.) MIO Deadlift, N x 1 rep
3.) ISO Bench, N x 5-9 seconds
DUR An-2
Rotation 1
1.) ISO Pull-Up, N x 20-30 seconds
2.) ISO HF Split Squat, N x 20-30 seconds
3.) ISO Pillar Bridge, N x 20-30 seconds
Rotation 2
1.) ISO-MIO DB Bench, N x 10 reps
2.) PIM Overhead Squats, N x 8 reps
3.) PIM Hanging Leg Raises, N x 12 reps
MAG An-1
1.) REA Squats, waveloading between 40 and 60%. N x 3 reps.
2.) REA Bench, waveloading between 40 and 60%. N x 3 reps.
-probably throw in some ISO ab work here as well-
I’m hoping that the bodyweight+70# pull-up will be coming around soon…
looks good Jtrin
keep us posted on your progress
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
looks good Jtrin
keep us posted on your progress[/quote]
I will. I actually drew up that cycle a couple of days ago, but since then have been considering totally eliminating full-range barbell bench from my program altogether.
Since my sport is volleyball, hitting power is primarily coming from the lats and triceps (not to mention rotation from the core). I think something like close-grip board presses or rack lockouts would allow me to continue to build tricep strength while not posing the same stress on the shoulders that full-range, heavy benching does.
ISO work might not be as bad though, it usually doesn’t bother my shoulders as much as traditional PIM movements.
I might go another cycle with the ISO bench and see how it’s feeling.
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
Back to the topic
Here is where I think you may be off base (a little). Strength and stiffness are not synonymous. Actually they lie on opposite ends of the spectrum.
So strength may be the ability to squat 600lbs,
Stiffness is the ability of your muscles to lock up instantly in a high speed movement, plantar flexors upon foot strike in the sprint to allow the achilles tendon to propel/generate movement.
So in INNO-speak strength is DUR, Stiffness is RATE.
So now you’re probably thinking
“Well if stiffness is RATE then why does long duration ISO (DUR) improve stiffness more than shor duration ISO’s?”
I don’t know why. That is just what was demonstrated in one study I am familiar with.
Well it’s at least food for thought
[/quote]
Haha- basically broke down my thinking/logic step by step there. I’ll take another look in Supertraining and see what information regarding long duration ISOs I can find. Other than that I guess we’ll see if anyone else can chime in with their thoughts and/or experiences on the subject.
Thanks,
Ian
On a side note:
I just saw that new underarmour commercial (click-clack) and I think it is an excellent example of PF stiffness. If anyone is looking for a visual example I suggest you check it out- specifically the part when they show the close-up of the guy’s feet when he is doing the agility ladder. This would also work well as a reference for those looking to explain the idea to others.
Hope this helps,
Ian
Squattin,
Here is some of the ISO information that I found in Supertraining:
“Isometric endurance with resistance exceeding 10-15 percent of a muscle’s maximal strength is very short compared with that of dynamic exercise, because of metabolic demands and the impairment of blood flow to the exercising muscles by the intense muscular contraction (Petrofsky & Phillips, 1986). Exercise involving less than this level of muscle tension are considered to be non-fatiguing, since the intramuscular pressure is low and readily exceeded by the mean arterial pressure rising in the capillaries”
“As muscle tension increases, intramuscular pressure also increases and metabolism is unable to meet the physiological demands of the exercise, resulting in a hyperbolic drop in performanc and marked increase in fatigue”
Siff also says that muscle temperature can have significant effects on isometric endurance.
I found all of this but did not see Siff say long duration ISOs should be avoided for these reasons. It seems to me that it would be advantageous to stick to other means for set times with long durations or help combat the negatives of the long duration ISOs by doing paused reps (ISO-MIO) to get the isometric work but still allow blood to reach the exercising muscles.
Hopefully this helps out some. I’d still like to hear others thoughts on the use of long duration ISOs to develop stiffness as well as your reaction to these excerpts.
Ian
Regarding ISO’s for stiffness…
I’ve been assisting some female volleyball players with their training this off-season. One of the staples of our program is Bulgarian split squats, both normal (PIM) reps and deep-position ISOs.
For those not familiar, middle hitters in volleyball will use both 2-footed takeoffs and 1-footed takeoffs (called a “slide” approach) to attack the ball. I can definitly say that the two middle hitters I work with have increased stiffness during 1-footed takeoffs. It’s not so much that they are jumping higher (they are, but I wouldn’t estimate the improvement to be any more so than their 2-footed jumps), but they are jumping quicker.
They are able to take a noticeably quicker approach (due to being able to absorb more force with 1 foot) and have a shorter “dip” before jumping. Since speed is the name of the game in volleyball for a middle hitter, this change in stiffness has been very noticeable.
It can’t be attributed totally to this one method though. The combination of PIM, ISO-MIO and REA olympic squats (the wave-load I talked about earlier), PIM and ISO split-squats along with MIO snatch-grip deads to build the strength and power base along with RATE drills such as line hops has really helped develop stiffness.
OK geys, what Appropriated weights do you wave between for A) REA Squats, and B) FDA Squats,
or do you take the easyy way out and just use % of 1RM…
If so, what %'s do you wave between for that?
J
[quote]Jumanji wrote:
OK geys, what Appropriated weights do you wave between for A) REA Squats, and B) FDA Squats,
or do you take the easyy way out and just use % of 1RM…
If so, what %'s do you wave between for that?
J[/quote]
I haven’t waveloaded for FDA squats but I would probably try to wave between 60%-90%AW. The %'s vary for the REA squats. If I am looking for more strength, then I will go between 56%-80%AW. For more speed I will use 30%-50%AW.
Of course, I make sure that technique is still correct at the heavier weights. I will also terminate any REA exercise when I feel that speed, absorption, or anything has decreased even the slightest amount.
Jtrin,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. How long do you hold to ISO bulgarian squats?