My back training always feels ineffective. When I train every other body part I leave the gym with my muscles feelings tight, full, and exhausted. I have tried several different routines, and my current routine consists of this:
Dumbbell Lat Pullovers 2x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Widegrip pullups 3x failure
V-bar pulldowns 2x10, 1x failure(8-10)
Widegrip cable rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
One arm dumbbell rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
T-bar rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Deadlifts 1x5, 1x8
Granted I am tired when I leave the gym, but its almost as if I could go back the very next day. I am big on strict form, but my back just doesn’t feel shredded like my other muscles over the next few days. Is this the nature of the muscle fibers in the back? Should I get up with a coach(which I plan on doing within the next year anyway)? Am I overly concerned about this? I have experimented with higher reps, low reps, and it all delivers the same feeling. Please help.
[quote]KlinessD wrote:
My back training always feels ineffective. When I train every other body part I leave the gym with my muscles feelings tight, full, and exhausted. I have tried several different routines, and my current routine consists of this:
Dumbbell Lat Pullovers 2x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Widegrip pullups 3x failure
V-bar pulldowns 2x10, 1x failure(8-10)
Widegrip cable rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
One arm dumbbell rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
T-bar rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Deadlifts 1x5, 1x8
Granted I am tired when I leave the gym, but its almost as if I could go back the very next day. I am big on strict form, but my back just doesn’t feel shredded like my other muscles over the next few days. Is this the nature of the muscle fibers in the back? Should I get up with a coach(which I plan on doing within the next year anyway)? Am I overly concerned about this? I have experimented with higher reps, low reps, and it all delivers the same feeling. Please help.[/quote]
You can’t expect anyone to seriously critique anything here if you don’t give us any information regarding your age, strength, years training, diet, weight etcc…
8-10 reps is meaningless if you are repping 5 pounds 8-12 times.
[quote]KlinessD wrote:
My back training always feels ineffective. When I train every other body part I leave the gym with my muscles feelings tight, full, and exhausted. I have tried several different routines, and my current routine consists of this:
Dumbbell Lat Pullovers 2x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Widegrip pullups 3x failure
V-bar pulldowns 2x10, 1x failure(8-10)
Widegrip cable rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
One arm dumbbell rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
T-bar rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Deadlifts 1x5, 1x8
Granted I am tired when I leave the gym, but its almost as if I could go back the very next day. I am big on strict form, but my back just doesn’t feel shredded like my other muscles over the next few days. Is this the nature of the muscle fibers in the back? Should I get up with a coach(which I plan on doing within the next year anyway)? Am I overly concerned about this? I have experimented with higher reps, low reps, and it all delivers the same feeling. Please help.[/quote]
I don’t understand how you can do all this and feel nothing in your back. ever thought about doing smaller workouts but twice a week?
and is your back growing?
edit: as long as over the year your are progressing with poundage and size I wouldn’t worry about it. I never consistently get Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) in my back unless taking some time off (deload) or trying something new.
edit again: also in my experience the back is just a muscle that can take a huge beating. if i really wanted i could pretty much train every muscle to complete failure in less than 20-30 minutes. But i can pound my back for an hour and feel like I’m not even close to failure but i still get a great pump.
[quote]KlinessD wrote:
My back training always feels ineffective. When I train every other body part I leave the gym with my muscles feelings tight, full, and exhausted. I have tried several different routines, and my current routine consists of this:
Dumbbell Lat Pullovers 2x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Widegrip pullups 3x failure
V-bar pulldowns 2x10, 1x failure(8-10)
Widegrip cable rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
One arm dumbbell rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
T-bar rows 1x10, 1xfailure(8-10)
Deadlifts 1x5, 1x8
Granted I am tired when I leave the gym, but its almost as if I could go back the very next day. I am big on strict form, but my back just doesn’t feel shredded like my other muscles over the next few days. Is this the nature of the muscle fibers in the back? Should I get up with a coach(which I plan on doing within the next year anyway)? Am I overly concerned about this? I have experimented with higher reps, low reps, and it all delivers the same feeling. Please help.[/quote]
I’ve personally always been able to feel my lats but maybe i can help anyway.
Just for a bit, try some movement where you get a big stretch in your lats (D-handle pulldowns would be a good option), and pull kinda slowly, feeling the lats contracting. Hold it at the bottom with your lats. Don’t go super heavy just yet. Try that for a bit til you’ve got a good connection with your lats. And try flexing your lats throughout the day. Just work on getting a good feel for them. (Once you can feel your lats contracting well, go back to whatever you want and feel free to go heavy. whatever works for you.)
Also pull through your elbows and pull your shoulder blades back and down along with your arms.
sounds like a pain to lug weights around to do deadlifts after all that.
also in my opinion, which is not worth very much mind you, dumbell pullovers sound like a waste of time. having to find an open bench and only having a productive rom of a few inches. if you are going to do pulldowns, why not do the straight arm lat work there? but wouldnt fatiguing your lats before pullups make every pullup after that suck?
that is just the stuff that came to my mind.
there was an article written by TC a while ago, and before he wrote it i was starting to realize this myself. that cheating works. cheat reps at the end of a set feel really good, especialy back workouts. i really like to use cheat reps on dumbbell rows and face pulls.
i acutaly dont do two handed rows anymore. i know everybody will disagree with me, but one handed rowing gives me a much stronger contraction. every two handed row i have ever seen does not look as good as a unilateral one. you know, i need a exercise that is really stable so i can dig into the muscle.
I know you say that you use strict form, but to truly get your back sore, you must develop a strong mind-muscle connection. There is a big difference between just strict form and MMC imo.
Work on contracting your lats and focusing on holding that contraction along with accentuating the eccentric portion of the movement + the stretch at the end. Do every repetition like that.
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I know you say that you use strict form, but to truly get your back sore, you must develop a strong mind-muscle connection. There is a big difference between just strict form and MMC imo.
Work on contracting your lats and focusing on holding that contraction along with accentuating the eccentric portion of the movement + the stretch at the end. Do every repetition like that.
[/quote]
This. CT’s kayak rows (i forget how he calls them) I feel are very good in this aspect. You might want to give them a try before your back day and try to get the same feeling you’ll get in your lats with the kayaks in your other exercises
back training takes a few years to properly master, mind muscle connection is very different than simply contracting the targeted muscle.
starting w/ pull-ups and getting 50 reps is typical for me, sets generally look like 12-15, 10, 10, 8, 6 etc. by the time i’m done i feel my back is strong and ready to work.
pick and choose your heavy movements vs contract and squeeze movements.
i use to hate, hate, hate barbell rows. i’ve (over the past 1-2yrs) added a second back day for rack pulls and shrug movements; getting use to handling heavy weights has helped a ton w/ just thickening out my back somewhat.
i formerly had primarily focused on 1 arm db rows as one of my heavier movements. i began just doing underhanded barbell rows w/ 135lb, simple a wheel per side, not really any weight. i focused on the contraction, the rom actually, making my back work and squeeze. a dorian like stance more upright than parallel to the floor so to speak.
eventually i got into a groove w/ these and could really feel them, the additional rack pull days helped w/ building confidence about my stance/form when rowing. i now row w/ 275lb for my working sets and do rack pulls for reps/sets w/ 405-495, the added weight has helped w/ growth, feeling, and confidence on back day.
BACK TRAINING - ALMOST MORE SO THAN OTHER BODY PART - REQUIRES CAREFUL ATTENTION TO 1. THE EXERCISES CHOSEN AND 2. THE ORDER THEREOF. balancing heavy exercises w/ squeeze/blood volume stuff matters.
for most people who progress, a light eventually clicks on for back training, from then on it becomes most folks favorite thing to train, along w/ the other 5-7 things to train. legs, arms, abs, back, chest, shoulders they’re all kind of my favorite to train.
also V-handled pull downs elbows forward sort of (awkward description), i like those a lot as well. pull-over machine, dig that. i switch in and out between heavy db rows, t-bar rows, and barbell rows.
Notice the trend, as my rowing got better my “yahoo, fun times” for back training increased. any skinny douchbag can bang out a few pull ups, great. those should be pre-cursors for a back workout, not anything to brag about.
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I know you say that you use strict form, but to truly get your back sore, you must develop a strong mind-muscle connection. There is a big difference between just strict form and MMC imo.
Work on contracting your lats and focusing on holding that contraction along with accentuating the eccentric portion of the movement + the stretch at the end. Do every repetition like that.
[/quote]
This. CT’s kayak rows (i forget how he calls them) I feel are very good in this aspect. You might want to give them a try before your back day and try to get the same feeling you’ll get in your lats with the kayaks in your other exercises[/quote]
i forgot about these, they look awesome definitely going to use these.
nice back too man
I agree with everyone else on Mind Muscle connection, it really takes some time to get in tune with your back but once you do you WILL feel it working much more.
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I know you say that you use strict form, but to truly get your back sore, you must develop a strong mind-muscle connection. There is a big difference between just strict form and MMC imo.
Work on contracting your lats and focusing on holding that contraction along with accentuating the eccentric portion of the movement + the stretch at the end. Do every repetition like that.
[/quote]
I know lots of guys frown on the Smith machine but it helped me learn how to concentrate on mind- muscle connection doing bent over rows.
Thanks everyone for all the positive feedback. You guys have given me alot of good insight. I always look forward to Back day, but now I feel like I have a bigger arsenal of knowledge to attack with. Thanks again!
I’m an athlete, I’m not a bodybuilder.
I don’t attempt for a bodybuilder’s back.
However, I do feel my back is one of my strongest muscle groups, I’ve received compliments on it, and therefore demand to be heard!
I have long limbs, and have found loosening up my form, increasing the weight, and increasing the reps has done nothing but good things for my back.
I’m not saying be an idiot and throw dumbbells around with reckless abandon.
I’m saying…
Kroc Rows FTMFW!
I was never able to feel a burn in my back before I started going high rep/high weight for every set.
Everything but Deadlift I go 15+ reps on.
If you can’t get a pump rowing a 150lb. dumbbell 15 times, for 5 sets, then you’re probably a robot.
Once again though, there’s a big difference in loosening up one’s form, and performing an exercise incorrectly and dangerously. It’s up to you to decide what is right for you.
There have been a lot of huge backs built through perfect form and efficient mind-muscle connection, and there have been a lot of huge backs built through heavy, intense lifting, hence a mixture of both would be most effective.
So for instance, here’s my back day.
Pull-Ups: x50 (Get 50 reps as fast as you can)
Deadlift: 6x3
Cable Row Superset: 3x15 (Pick two differently angled row variations)
Kroc Rows: 4xMR (Don’t worry about a little bit of body english)
Farmers Walks: 3x100 meter walks.
I usually can’t retract my shoulders by the end of the day if I put the proper focus and intensity forth.
Which I always do 
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
There have been a lot of huge backs built through perfect form and efficient mind-muscle connection, and there have been a lot of huge backs built through heavy, intense lifting, hence a mixture of both would be most effective.
[/quote]
This.
I like ramping up the weight on all my back exercises. Usually ramp up on either 5 reps or 8 rep sets. I start lighter with strict form and holding the contraction. Then as I increase the weight over 5 sets or so the last set or two I usually loosen up the form a bit and go a bit heavier than what I could hold at contraction. Best of both worlds.