[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Kirks wrote:
What are the best ways of increasing speed? I’m mostly referring to hand speed, but as I do MT I would love to get my kicks as fast as possible.
Is it punching with a Pilates/resistance band? Shadow boxing with weights? Just doing as much pad/bag work as possible? Is the most important thing not telegraphing rather than actually being fast? Is it core strength?
I would like to know what exercises I can do to help. I don’t think I’m slow by any means, but I’m not Roy jones jr either. [/quote]
Do punch-outs and kicking for 10-20 repetitive punches and kicks.Let someone time you with a stopwatch every few weeks.When you know the number,you ll be more motivated to beat it.Repetitive kicks will make you faster at throwing a single kick.You have a long way to go until you hit you genetic ceiling of speed.[/quote]
how does this help?
drilling in specific and general situations helps a lot, but just throwing speed for speed’s sake doesn’t really apply when sparring, IMO.[/quote]
I agree that drilling specific and general situations is very beneficial. Just throwing speed for speed’s sake could be useful when throwing in the occasional flurry though. [/quote]
i think those drills are more useful in conditioning than in speed. seems to me that since people don’t “set” right when doing them (due to the emphasis on being done rapid fire), developing speed is at a minimal, because technique isn’t improved and fatigue accumulates.[/quote]
Agreed, they are conditioning drills, but conditioning and speed are far from mutually exclusive.
If we are talking about developing the maximal non telegraphic technique thrown when completely fresh, then no SHELAC’s drill is probably not going to be the best use of one’s energy. But such conditioning drills can be very useful hen taking about the ability to sustain speed when in a fatigued state, such as throwing in a flurry at the end of long round.[/quote]
i coulda swore this whole thread was about developing speed…
EDIT: i have to point out that speed and strength have a better correlation than speed and endurance, so again, i disagree that conditioning drills really help speed.[/quote]
Is being able to move quickly for sustained periods not still increasing speed? What good does being super fast (and using tons of effort to do so) do a combat athlete if they burn themselves out by half way through the first round? And if you can still move fast when your opponent is tired or has slowed down, will that not make you appear to be very fast to him/her? And if you can be fast at the end of the last round of a fight, it’s going to mean that you can move really fast when you are fresh (since it signifies that you are extremely efficient with your techniques and have really mastered minimizing tension in your antagonistic muscles). What good does being super fast (and using tons of effort to do so) do a combat athlete if they burn themselves out by half way through the first round? Throwing lots of techniques fast will teach you how to minimize tension, and maximize mechanics/efficiency.
Again, it might not be the best way to increase maximal single strike speed, but other than a sucker punch, not too many fight end with just one strike. Speed doesn’t occur in a vacuum.
Strength and speed are correlated, but so are endurance and speed (just in different ways).[/quote]
okay, by that logic, then literally every physical, mental or technical improvement an athlete makes improves speed. so with that being said, there are certainly many things that have a definitive increase in the actual speed an athlete can move with, and others, which might improve the athlete’s performance, but not this specific trait.
if this isn’t clear enough, i would refer you to a sprinter vs a marathoner, and the traits that they exhibit, and how that applies to the discussion here.[/quote]
Yes, to a degree any improvement in technique should improve speed, but more specifically, trying to move quickly over, and over, and over even as you begin to fatigue will teach the body to minimize muscle tension, maximize efficiency, and build the ability to sustain speed (all of which will transfer to greater speed in the absence of fatigue).
Wait, so you are suggesting that sprinting signifies developing speed, but that throwing a series of strikes as fast as you can in succession does not? Explain to me how are those two things different.
How can you compare throwing multiple strikes as fast as possible (whether that means actual combinations/flurries, or just multiple strikes during a round) with marathon running? How are those two things even remotely comparable?
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you’re arguing that throwing a bunch of punches in a certain amount of time is speed, and it’s not-it’s work. throwing a kick or punch or whatever where it covers distance faster, is speed.
the analogy that i inferred, is that sprinting is akin to developing speed (covering distance fastest, like punching or kicking where the limb literally moves faster), whereas endurance training (i.e. marathon training) is a measure of something entirely different.
if we are to discuss optimizing the energy systems, then again, the phosphagen system needs to be trained. simply training the anaerobic or aerobic system isn’t going to make one stimulate maximum muscle fibers. “moving quickly, when tired” does not activate this system, and therefore is not a logical means in developing maximal speed or strength.[/quote]
Ok, so are you arguing that the punches or kicks don’t travel any distance if you throw a series of them?
Let’s say that just for the sake of example my target is 2 feet in front of me standing in a fighting stance. In order for my punch to make contact with the target it must therefore travel 2 feet. It must then travel 2 feet back to my chin as i throw the other hand so that I can fire the punch again. So, let’s say that I set a timer for 10 seconds and throw as many punches as I can. Day 1 I throw 20 punches (pretty slow actually). That means that (assuming I was alternating punches) both fists covered 40 feet of distance in 10 seconds. Now let’s say that the next time I do the drill I throw 24 punches, now my fists have covered 48 feet of distance in that same 10 seconds. In other words, the only way that I can possibly get more punches (or kicks, or elbows, or knees, etc…) in that time frame is to throw faster strikes. Likewise, if I throw the same number of strikes, but do so in less time, again, the only way this is possible is if each strike is covering the distance faster than it previously had.
I think you need to go back and look at the formulas for work and speed again.
Marathon running is about pacing yourself and not putting forth anything resembling a maximal effort (well, maybe “sprinting” to the finish line if you’ve actually got a chance of winning a medal and it’s close). That is in no way comparable to throwing flurries or throwing rounds full of as fast as possible strikes.
Likewise, sprinting is simply a series of stride lengths performed as quickly as possible in succession. That is EXACTLY the same thing as throwing multiple maximal speed strikes in succession. If you deny that performing flurries and throwing multiple maximal speed strikes is not an example of speed or does not build speed, then you have to by default also concede that sprinting does not build speed.
Your understanding of the energy systems and exercise physiology is flawed. First of all, all three energy systems are always contributing to energy production, there is simply usually one that is most heavily being recruited.
Second, there are 3 times when maximal motor units are recruited in muscle
- when the load exceeds 85% of maximal
- when the load is maximally accelerated/the muscles are stimulated to contract as quickly as possible
- in the presence of sufficient fatigue
So, simply attempting to move with maximal speed (whether that be a single effort, or multiple consecutive efforts) will recruit maximal motor units. Moving with maximal speed while fatigued is even more certain to activate maximal motor units (due to the greater fatigue, some will already be exhausted though and the speed will appear less than if less metabolic waste products were present within the muscles).
The phosphagen system only lasts about 10 seconds though and it’s really only going to be appropriate to talk about it’s limits for combat athletes if we are talking about flurries, or scrambles. If you are trying to utilize maximal 100% effort, you aren’t going to last very long until before your intensity is going to go way down (you will slow down considerably) and you are going to have to back off and recover. For the most part, fighting is about glycolysis (anaerobic and aerobic), not the Phosphagen system (unless we’re talking about street fighting).
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the formula for work still applies, whether you believe it or not.
Speed is the distance traveled by the object divided by the duration of the interval.
Work is force time distance (or displacement).
as far as whether maximal force matters in fighting, it’s absurd to think otherwise. that Vitor Belfort fella has made quite a living based off that, and rarely gets out of the first round.
and this doesn’t mean that other energy systems don’t matter in fighting, because they do. it’s just that this style of fighting ( a quick KO while taking minimal damage) is far more efficient.
and attempting to move with maximal speed is not the most means of developing speed…if it was, isometrics would be the most effective exercise one could do. powerliftiers and Oly lifters train a certain way for a reason.[/quote]
The equation for mechanical work is:
Work= Force x displacement (not distance, not the same thing) x Cosine (Theta) which is measured in joules
You are thinking of Power, which is:
Power= Work/time which is measured in Watts
Speed is the rate at which an object covers distance. Or, in Formula:
Speed= distance traveled/time of travel
So again, if I know my distance traveled increases in the same time frame, then that is an increase in speed. There is absolutely no other instance where you would even consider arguing against that point. That would be like arguing that a car that travels 75 miles in one hour is not moving faster than one that travels 65 miles in an hour. If you are going to argue that, then you are just trolling.
Who said anything about maximal force not meaning anything or being important; I said if you are going to try to put out sustained maximal effort you are going to be dead tired in no time. The Phosagen system is really only going to be taxed heavily during 100% maximal efforts; very, very seldom do you see a good fighter put out a maximal effort for any period of time unless it is a do or die scenario. And even then, it’s very, very seldom that a sport fight lasts less than 10 seconds where the Phosagen system is going to be the prime limiting system.
I’m not suggesting that you don’t include maximal efforts in your training (which Skelac’s drill is actually a pretty good example of, along with working flurries into your mitt work, bag work , and sparring. But if you think you’re going to sustain that level of effort for a full 3, let alone 5 minutes you’re either a genetic anomaly, or you haven’t come to grips with reality. Most of fighting occurs in Glycolysis, not the Phosphagen system.
Come on, do you seriously believe that last statement? You’d better go tell Usain Bolt and Floyd Mayweather Jr. that they are wasting their time running as fast as they can and throwing punches on the mitts as fast as they can then so they can get really fast, like those Powerlifters and Olympic Lifters. Your analogy also makes no sense. Isometrics means there is no movement. If we are talking about how to develop the most strength to be able to hold a given load in a specific position, then yes isometrics would be the best method to develop that specific strength. If we are talking about lifting weights, then how is performing isometrics to get better at lifting weights the same thing as running as fast as possible or punching as fast as possible to get better at running or punching as fast as possible? What’s next? Are you going to suggest that lifting weights isn’t the best way to get better at lifting weights?
