[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:
before this gets out of hand even more, watch these vids of kai training arms from 2007. theres 10 parts to this.
as you can see kai is putting up some pretty hefty weights, and he keeps saying hes just coming off a show so hes going lighter to not get injured. he did/does put up huge weights, and thats why he is so big.[/quote]
LOL
at 5;13 KAY
" never,EVER, sacrifice form for weights (cut) lifting stupid? this is not me and NEVER be me"
maybe I heard wrong???
[quote]Marc_Cavalli wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
X2[/quote]
x3
Its when i stopped lifting heavy and started use other progression methods, is when i started to grow. If i wasnt so broke now, i believe i would have been a lot bigger if i upped my calories.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
x4
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
People focus on the weight because it’s the easiest measure of progress to track. You gonna write down the exact form, momentum, duration, whatever else you used last time? Dont think so.
I also dont think that it’s possible to build an Olympia ready physique without using some heavy ass weights. All the modifying can only take you so far.
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
People focus on the weight because it’s the easiest measure of progress to track. You gonna write down the exact form, momentum, duration, whatever else you used last time? Dont think so.
I also dont think that it’s possible to build an Olympia ready physique without using some heavy ass weights. All the modifying can only take you so far.[/quote]
This is true…and no, there aren’t too many people literally going from small to really big with light weights.
The reality is guys using BIG weights to get BIG and then working on more form as they refine their physiques.
Anyone who thinks they can look like Kai by using no more than 35lbs dumbbells is a dumbass.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
People focus on the weight because it’s the easiest measure of progress to track. You gonna write down the exact form, momentum, duration, whatever else you used last time? Dont think so.
I also dont think that it’s possible to build an Olympia ready physique without using some heavy ass weights. All the modifying can only take you so far.[/quote]
Anyone who thinks they can look like Kai by using no more than 35lbs dumbbells is a dumbass.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone ever said that, chief.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
People focus on the weight because it’s the easiest measure of progress to track. You gonna write down the exact form, momentum, duration, whatever else you used last time? Dont think so.
I also dont think that it’s possible to build an Olympia ready physique without using some heavy ass weights. All the modifying can only take you so far.[/quote]
This is true…and no, there aren’t too many people literally going from small to really big with light weights.
The reality is guys using BIG weights to get BIG and then working on more form as they refine their physiques.
Anyone who thinks they can look like Kai by using no more than 35lbs dumbbells is a dumbass.[/quote]
Yup agreed. Jay Cutler is a good example, he doesn’t go “heavy” compared to a lot of other pro bodybuilders, but back in the day he was lifting some insane poundages, still does, but definitely doesn’t get up to those same weights. However his physique was at its best when he was at the latter form of training. And at the end of the day there are several ways to get from point A to point B, Coleman and Levrone kept weights really high and reps low on a lot of exercises even several weeks out from competition.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Just cause one used to train a certain way, doesn’t mean they don’t change how they train or learn what works better. Maybe he did train super heavy and realized thats not the best way for a bodybuilder to train.[/quote]
It seems reasonable that as a bodybuilder develops they will reach points when some methods and techniques are replaced; not because the previous methods were ineffective, but because the lifter has reached a point where priorities have changed. Until a lifter has developed the ‘substrate’ to form the ‘look’, no single variable (other than injury prevention) is as important as adding pounds to the bar. Telling people anything else, especially if your advice contradicts your history, seems dishonest to me. [/quote]
THIS
it is all goal dependent. My training now, after my most recent slew of injuries, is modeled after Dave Tate’s current training, as he is the only “famous” guy out there who has been through what I have been through,
that is, he is as fucked up from serious competitive strength training as I am, and now just trains to maintain health and look decent.
If you want to become as strong as possible, then do not follow the advice of competitive bbers, simple as that.
if your primary goal is to looked jacked, well, you know.
I few weeks ago in a thread about the leg press, Professor X made a comment about my dislike for the leg press, something to the effect that if I had worked on the leg press more, my legs would be bigger than my current paltry 27"
well, first, at 5’6", 27" cut and vascular thighs are not THAT small, lol, but while he (Prof X) was concentrating his efforts building 30" plus thighs, I was concentrating on building a 700lb squat.
Point is, want to be strong, train like a strength athlete, want to look like a BBer, train like one of them.
So if I’m trying to get stronger and I am a beginner, is it better to do heavier weights were I can only grind 3 reps out (out of form), or is it better to go lighter and do perfect form 8 reps?
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
its funny, when I say its necessary, whether you use lighter more controlled reps or not, you must make progression in weights over time to get bigger, i get flamed, but when others say what ive already said a million times, they get praised.[/quote]
You didnt JUST say that. It was how you said it and its relation to the discussion. And you still dont seem to get it.
What Kai is talking about in this video is EXACTLY why you got ‘flamed’ for your one track mind approach.
You didnt get ‘flamed’. You got corrected. Because the main substance of your previous comments was, without a doubt, wrong.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Napster87 wrote:
Im sorry… despite his ridiculous massiveness Im having a hard time taking him seriously in that get up [/quote]
Ignorance is bliss. [/quote]
So true haha
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:
before this gets out of hand even more, watch these vids of kai training arms from 2007. theres 10 parts to this.
as you can see kai is putting up some pretty hefty weights, and he keeps saying hes just coming off a show so hes going lighter to not get injured. he did/does put up huge weights, and thats why he is so big.[/quote]
LOL
at 5;13 KAY
" never,EVER, sacrifice form for weights (cut) lifting stupid? this is not me and NEVER be me"
maybe I heard wrong???[/quote]
i never said he wasnt using good form. hes using good form AND huge weights.
Apparently, no one here has heard of pro BB’ers doing a crazy amount of reps with light weight when Pre-Contest Dieting as to avoid an injurious situation.
Are you serious?
“SEE!? Kai Greene got huge arms bu doing light weight!” Wrong. Kai Greene is doing light weight RITCHT NOW. For a CONTEST. Not forever.
[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:
before this gets out of hand even more, watch these vids of kai training arms from 2007. theres 10 parts to this.
as you can see kai is putting up some pretty hefty weights, and he keeps saying hes just coming off a show so hes going lighter to not get injured. he did/does put up huge weights, and thats why he is so big.[/quote]
LOL
at 5;13 KAY
" never,EVER, sacrifice form for weights (cut) lifting stupid? this is not me and NEVER be me"
maybe I heard wrong???[/quote]
i never said he wasnt using good form. hes using good form AND huge weights. [/quote]
imo, you and me are saying the same thing;
good form is condicio sine qua non ( prerequisite) to stress muscles properly and avoid injuries, strenght (alias weight used into the sets) are the other variables.
I never wrote that light weights build muscles,I have said that “lighters” weights (lighterS compared to cheating&no full ROM crews) plus good form plus progression build muscles…
[quote]RePz wrote:
Its when i stopped lifting heavy and started use other progression methods, is when i started to grow. If i wasnt so broke now, i believe i would have been a lot bigger if i upped my calories.[/quote]
That will work for a while because you are taking advantage of the strength you developed previously. At some point that run will end (usually long before we would like) and new strength will be required.
Lifting super strict and focusing only on the contraction is great and everything, but as someone else pointed out already, Kai isn’t using baby weights to train his arms.
And when Kai Greene had a weak lagging chest, and needed to bring it up, he didn’t do so with super strict cable flies holding the contraction… he did it with flat barbell bench (495x4 on video), incline barbell bench (405x5 on video), and dumbbell flies. As far as a chest-building routine goes, that is a workout that hasn’t changed since the 1970’s, and it has always worked. Arnold did it, Lee Haney did it, Ronnie Coleman did it, and so on and so forth. Squeezing the muscle and using light weights has it’s place, but that place is after the real dues have been paid.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]RePz wrote:
Its when i stopped lifting heavy and started use other progression methods, is when i started to grow. If i wasnt so broke now, i believe i would have been a lot bigger if i upped my calories.[/quote]
That will work for a while because you are taking advantage of the strength you developed previously. At some point that run will end (usually long before we would like) and new strength will be required. [/quote]
imo,this is a great comment!
periodization aka 8 weeks of “power-bulding” (mainly compounds,heavy) then 8 weeks of form&squeeze (“hypertrophy” phase",1 compound heavy,two isolations)) in which you use the power obtained to gain muscle.
it sounds logic; evolution doesn’t use a straight path…
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]RePz wrote:
Its when i stopped lifting heavy and started use other progression methods, is when i started to grow. If i wasnt so broke now, i believe i would have been a lot bigger if i upped my calories.[/quote]
That will work for a while because you are taking advantage of the strength you developed previously. At some point that run will end (usually long before we would like) and new strength will be required. [/quote]
imo,this is a great comment!
periodization aka 8 weeks of “power-bulding” (mainly compounds,heavy) then 8 weeks of form&squeeze (“hypertrophy” phase",1 compound heavy,two isolations)) in which you use the power obtained to gain muscle.
it sounds logic; evolution doesn’t use a straight path…[/quote]
I don’t think you get what he is saying.
That wasn’t a recommendation. Many of these guys are doubtfully at the point where they are ready to give up the heavy weights. In fact, since Kai didn’t give up heavy weights, I am not really sure what some of you are getting from that video.
Yeah, feel the muscle contract. Don’t cheat so bad that you don’t even work the target muscle…and then work to get strong…and then, when really strong, work on better and better form.
I can do shrugs now with no gloves using a weight that would have hurt like hell when I started. I can put a large amount of weight on and hold the peak contraction after each rep.
There is no way in hell I could have reached that point without all of those years of HEAVING that weight up…years that included everything from static holds to NEEDING wrist wraps.
I could see if everyone here looked extremely developed already…but most don’t…so why side step that major issue?
As a professional bodybuilder, if you have a lagging chest, is taking your bench from 405 to 495 the best way to bring it up?
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
As a professional bodybuilder, if you have a lagging chest, is taking your bench from 405 to 495 the best way to bring it up?[/quote]
That would depend on how that individual responded to flat bar pressing and how the increase in strength on that station affected the work they performed elsewhere.