Didn’t dave tate once say he made the biggest improvements in pec size by maxing his dumbell press work sets with 70lbs dumb bells?
strict form with MMC then progressively get stronger from it, then you got growth.
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Don’t fool yourself, there are 3 things that matter here; genetics, drug use and progress.
If you progress on curls with less than stellar form with the 100’s, or if you progress on Kai’s sissy ultra-strict curls, you WILL get bigger arms with either one.
Just look at the Olympia contestants. You have guys who advocate high intensity, low intensity, high carb, low carb, super strict, sloppy, all whatever.
It’s all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs.[/quote]
did you just copy and paste the first and last line from somewhere? or did this come from all your experience?
[/quote]
I could be a grandmother who hasn’t ever touched a weight for all this matters, I’m surprise more people can’t infer this from basic logic.
Then again, logic isn’t most people’s strong point.
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Don’t fool yourself, there are 3 things that matter here; genetics, drug use and progress.
If you progress on curls with less than stellar form with the 100’s, or if you progress on Kai’s sissy ultra-strict curls, you WILL get bigger arms with either one.
Just look at the Olympia contestants. You have guys who advocate high intensity, low intensity, high carb, low carb, super strict, sloppy, all whatever.
It’s all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs.[/quote]
did you just copy and paste the first and last line from somewhere? or did this come from all your experience?
[/quote]
I could be a grandmother who hasn’t ever touched a weight for all this matters, I’m surprise more people can’t infer this from basic logic.
Then again, logic isn’t most people’s strong point.
[/quote]
So it didnt come from experience, gotcha 
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
he never actually says to use light weight… Simply not te be ego driven and lift weight with good form[/quote]
i wrote " light(er)" because -as you know better than me- curling (for example) with a still/fixed elbows force you to use a “lighter” load compared to an “heavier” used with elbows moving forward,upper body oscillating and cheating…
doesn’t good form means using less weight than with a bad form ??? [/quote]
oh, my comment wasn’t directed at you… but at people whining
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Don’t fool yourself, there are 3 things that matter here; genetics, drug use and progress.
If you progress on curls with less than stellar form with the 100’s, or if you progress on Kai’s sissy ultra-strict curls, you WILL get bigger arms with either one.
Just look at the Olympia contestants. You have guys who advocate high intensity, low intensity, high carb, low carb, super strict, sloppy, all whatever.
It’s all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs.[/quote]
did you just copy and paste the first and last line from somewhere? or did this come from all your experience?
[/quote]
I could be a grandmother who hasn’t ever touched a weight for all this matters, I’m surprise more people can’t infer this from basic logic.
Then again, logic isn’t most people’s strong point.
[/quote]
So it didnt come from experience, gotcha :)[/quote]
I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here;
that
A) It’s not ‘all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs’
or
B) that it’s not ‘all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs’ and threfore I have no experience?
Ok, kid.
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
he never actually says to use light weight… Simply not te be ego driven and lift weight with good form[/quote]
i wrote " light(er)" because -as you know better than me- curling (for example) with a still/fixed elbows force you to use a “lighter” load compared to an “heavier” used with elbows moving forward,upper body oscillating and cheating…
doesn’t good form means using less weight than with a bad form ??? [/quote]
oh, my comment wasn’t directed at you… but at people whining[/quote]
no problema at all,as english is not my first language I thought to have written in an untelligible way…
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Don’t fool yourself, there are 3 things that matter here; genetics, drug use and progress.
If you progress on curls with less than stellar form with the 100’s, or if you progress on Kai’s sissy ultra-strict curls, you WILL get bigger arms with either one.
Just look at the Olympia contestants. You have guys who advocate high intensity, low intensity, high carb, low carb, super strict, sloppy, all whatever.
It’s all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs.[/quote]
did you just copy and paste the first and last line from somewhere? or did this come from all your experience?
[/quote]
I could be a grandmother who hasn’t ever touched a weight for all this matters, I’m surprise more people can’t infer this from basic logic.
Then again, logic isn’t most people’s strong point.
[/quote]
So it didnt come from experience, gotcha :)[/quote]
I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here;
that
A) It’s not ‘all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs’
or
B) that it’s not ‘all about consistency, dedication, progressive overload, genetics and drugs’ and threfore I have no experience?
Ok, kid.
[/quote]
its funny, when I say its necessary, whether you use lighter more controlled reps or not, you must make progression in weights over time to get bigger, i get flamed, but when others say what ive already said a million times, they get praised.
I used ONLY lighter weights while recovering for certain body parts after the accident and despite constant training, I still lost size in them. I did not lose much size if any at all in the muscles groups I did both heavier and lighter weights for like I usually do.
If you want big muscles, you will have to lift heavy.
If you want even bigger muscles, you had better learn it is not all about the weight.
Taking one statement from a bodybuilder and ignoring what they actually did to look like that is a tad ridiculous.
Let us know the next time you meet someone with 20" relatively lean muscular arms who can truly ONLY curl a max weight of 40lbs.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I used ONLY lighter weights while recovering for certain body parts after the accident and despite constant training, I still lost size in them. I did not lose much size if any at all in the muscles groups I did both heavier and lighter weights for like I usually do.
If you want big muscles, you will have to lift heavy.
If you want even bigger muscles, you had better learn it is not all about the weight.
Taking one statement from a bodybuilder and ignoring what they actually did to look like that is a tad ridiculous.
Let us know the next time you meet someone with 20" relatively lean muscular arms who can truly ONLY curl a max weight of 40lbs.[/quote]
mmmmm…yes and no…
Mr. 20’ gunz one day does dbs curls seated on incline bench
-fixed elbows,no cheating,3’ eccentric,to failure plus partials-
3x8 with 30lb (40lb is too much…LOL)
nexty session Mr 20’ does bb curl with 160 lb,strict form.
“light” and “heavy” are just words,they have to be related to trainings protocols variables.
de adverso ( conversely), if you watch a PLer benching 400lb and his chest looks flat, what do you think?
1/plers are small
2/big bench= small chest
3/small bench= big chest
but you know better than me that all these are wrong…
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I used ONLY lighter weights while recovering for certain body parts after the accident and despite constant training, I still lost size in them. I did not lose much size if any at all in the muscles groups I did both heavier and lighter weights for like I usually do.
If you want big muscles, you will have to lift heavy.
If you want even bigger muscles, you had better learn it is not all about the weight.
Taking one statement from a bodybuilder and ignoring what they actually did to look like that is a tad ridiculous.
Let us know the next time you meet someone with 20" relatively lean muscular arms who can truly ONLY curl a max weight of 40lbs.[/quote]
mmmmm…yes and no…
Mr. 20’ gunz one day does dbs curls seated on incline bench
-fixed elbows,no cheating,3’ eccentric,to failure plus partials-
3x8 with 30lb (40lb is too much…LOL)
nexty session Mr 20’ does bb curl with 160 lb,strict form.
“light” and “heavy” are just words,they have to be related to trainings protocols variables.
de adverso ( conversely), if you watch a PLer benching 400lb and his chest looks flat, what do you think?
1/plers are small
2/big bench= small chest
3/small bench= big chest
but you know better than me that all these are wrong…
[/quote]
WTF? I don’t even know what you are saying here. You are like one of those guys who thinks the exception is the rule or who tries really hard to go around the basics.
If you need this broken down to that level, then show me ONE person with 20" muscular arms who can only do 40lbs on an alternate dumbbell curl.
There are no super weak super huge people. You MUST get strong first so that lighter weight is even allowing more mind/muscle connection when lifting.
I just trained triceps. I only went up to 50lbs for dumbbell kickbacks so I could feel that muscle contract.
You would be incorrect if you believed that was ALL I could lift for that movement.
I think all of us know laying back and doing curls at an angle requires you to drop the weight used compared to doing alternate seated dumbbell curls normally.
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.
There is so much pseudoscience when it comes to gaining muscle that is downright sickening.
Every pro has a slightly different opinion over the other, the only logical way of finding what works, is looking at the thing that everyone with considerable amounts of muscle does. And that is challenging yourself with heavy weights 4-6 days a week, being consistent and eating a diet that has a caloric surplus and all the necassery vitamins, minerals and nutrients.
The only way of definitively saying one way of training is better over the other is by conducting many 50+ people studies with strict adherence to routine and diet (which would cost a shit load, and quite frankly, there are more important things to study).
These discussions are just pointless.
i think everything has it’s place.
even cheating.
lateral raises for example. You can only do so much with good form.
I’ll go through periods where ill purposely cheat and swing the weight adding absurd amounts of weight over 4-6 weeks, then later ill drop back down to weight that was too hard to do and it’ll be easy.
i do the same thing with shrugs, hammer curls or whatever.
but if i feel like i didn’t work the muscle enough with cheating i’ll simply grab a lighter weight at the end and do one set of concentration curls or whatever exercise i was doing.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
What I get out of it is that in order to grow, you need to stress the muscle. When you are attempting to stress the muscle, the weight used is only one component. Form, momentum, rest intervals, number of reps, est. can all be used to increase or decrease stress.
People who want to build muscle too often focus all their attention on the weight component and sacrifice everything else to get the weight higher. I think the point is that if you can get the same stress on the muscle and the same growth, it makes sense to be safer using light(er) weight and keep the focus where it’s intended. It’s not that the weight doesn’t matter; it’s that you shouldn’t ignore the other factors.[/quote]
X2
looks like #fuckarounditis
I like to lift weights.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I like to lift weights.[/quote]
x10. I do it coz i like it.
before this gets out of hand even more, watch these vids of kai training arms from 2007. theres 10 parts to this.
as you can see kai is putting up some pretty hefty weights, and he keeps saying hes just coming off a show so hes going lighter to not get injured. he did/does put up huge weights, and thats why he is so big.