I have been researchering old posts here about cycling IGF-1. From what I have gathered: 40mcg aday, bilaterally inject into mucle working out that day, inject prework out, use for about 50days?
Who has done this before and what is the best way to do it?
thanks
stillearning
60 mcg immediately PWO if possible bi-laterally into trained or lagging muscle groups. 2 mg’s lasted 32 days. There’s a guy that goes by the name Gavin Kane on other boards who’s very educated on peptides. Check out some of his stuff.
Bush,
Do you think IM injection of IGF1 will benefit all muscles worked? Or is the method of injecting specifically into trained muscles taking advantage of some localized growth IGF may induce?
For example on a chest day injecting into the pecs will help promote growth and recovery in the pecs but the IGF will also promote growth/recovery in other areas as well no?
Hope all is well,
Smug
If it is LR3 IGF-1 it should get to all your muscles but would of course be strongest in the muscles that have been worked (because they are now more receptive…this is why you do it immediately after working the muscle). It will also have a stronger action where you have injected because it gets there first so that muscle has first chance for the peptide to bind and go to work.
There are two schools of thought wrt LR3-IGF-1.
IGF is systemic.
IGF is site specific.
Inside of those two camps are the short duration high dose folks, and the long duration low dose folks.
Personally - I am in the low dose (40mcg and less per day in a 5-on 2-off fashion.) long duration camp.
I think it is systemic, but I still inject bilaterally.
Like Bushido said - there is no evidence to back up either school of thought beyond that of anecdotal reports.
There are also those that use the IF for cutting, those that use it to bulk, and still another group that think it is best suited for use as part of a PCT protocol.
ya, there dosen’t seem to be enough experience with it yet. everyone seems to have different protocols for it.
Hmmm… here is an interesting one for you guys.
I just came off and I have been using a transdermal test to taper…
During my cycle I was taking EPO 6000 IU weekly, 3.3 IU GH Daily…
Once I came off the cycle to the transdermal, I continued the EPO (@3000 IU weekly), the GH stayed the same, and I added 60 mcg of IGF…
The day I started the IGF I had a 10 x normal effect of carpal tunnel syndrome. I normally get it if my dosage of GH climbs up but normally only in my right hand.
The first night on IGF both my arms were suffering from CTS and falling asleep from the shoulders down. The second night I almost went to the hospital it hurt so bad in the right arm.
I was so worried I started diuretics until I remembered I had been taking EPO… not a good idea.
Anyways has anyone else out there had this problem and if so how have you dealt with it?
Thanks
PS I would be curious what you guys thought of the best fat burning protocol with EPO, GH, IGF…? Throw in some Thyroid? Hmmm…
Prometheous,
That’s a pretty serious stack. What are you training for. Maybe the symptoms you hhad are lasting effects of the GH? Never heard of this before.
I think the vets need to get in on this.
I appreciate the concerns and the thoughts guys hopefully there will be additional informaiton forth coming.
Bushy, I dont think I am too suseptible to GH as I was taking 5 IU twice daily at one point just to guage results… I find that 3.3 is nearly optimal for me unless its for really short term injury repair I never go higher.
However I am rethinking the IGF, I thought I had done it before but I never had this side effect previously. Maybe its synergistic?
The effects have been lessened since I stepped up my water intake and cut out the GH the last two days.
I am reintroducing the GH this morning and leaving the IGF PWO… one more shot of EPO and then I am in the back country snow boarding and climbing at altitude… :)) Should be a great time ! I just have to sort this shit out first.
Anyways if you have any thoughts or know anyone that has had this problem or better yet have a solution that doesnt involve stopping completely I would love to hear it.
Last thing Bushy, I noted you were talking about coughing on another thread. Have yo uheard of anyone developing a cough while on IGF, GH, or EPO? And if so what?
Thanks,
P
[quote]Smug wrote:
Prometheous,
That’s a pretty serious stack. What are you training for. Maybe the symptoms you hhad are lasting effects of the GH? Never heard of this before.
I think the vets need to get in on this.[/quote]
Just realized I forgot to answer yoru question, sorry.
I am training for a week trip in the back country, snow boarding, mountaineering, and snow shoe’ing.
The reason for the EPO was to help with the change in altitude. I work at sea level for 5 weeks at a time and then I get my time off so to avoid any major shock from going rapidly to altitude I am trying EPO.
I have used it before during PCT (with GH) and it was great.
Otherwise I train for me and holding back the clock… I like human performance. Someting must be working because I have only been doing Crossfit for the last year and just this last week my strength has been unreal. I have been going to weights I havent touched for 5-10 years ago when I was training the Mentzer heavy duty program.
Now if I could just get rid of this cough and the CTS ! :))
Wow Bushie - I never knew about the IGF, and some of the other peptides causing CTS.
That makes my situation understandable now.
I went on the IGF for a couple of months at the end of last year, and developed what I thought was tendonitis in my elbow/forearm/wrist. I lost all grip in my left hand, the range of motion in my wrist, and bending my arm was excruciating.
Training was horribly painful, so I took tons of ibuprofen, aspercreme, and had my left elbow, forearm, and wrist wrapped up like I had cut an artery.
Nothing really helped - then just in the last 25 days or so - the pain has receded. My grip has come back, and though there is still some pain in my elbow, I can do barbell curls again without crying.
I wonder if this is dose dependent, or if any amount will cause this kind of condition.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Wow, Prometheus, you are only the second person that I have ever heard of who has suffered these kind of adverse reactions to either GH and/or IGF1. Coincidentally, the other person told me about his problems, just 2 weeks or so ago…
Anyway, he was using just 5iu ED of generic chinese 191aa GH, and basically experienced severe carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) from the word go. He tried dropping the dose but even at just 1-2 iu the symptoms were still there. He made the right descision, and dropped it completely.
Before anyone starts thinking that “Oh it was only that crappy Chinese stuff, and was likely full of shit” or whatever, you should be aware that this guy is a Phd chemist and fully tests everything that he gets his hands on. Plus, his brother has been running the stuff with no adverse effects.
In fact, I will be running some of this myself soon, lol.
So it does seem that some people are VERY susceptible to the side-effects of certain growth peptides.
Be warned folks. If you want to experiment with peptides, I would suggest trying a little before commiting to purchasing a full cycle.
Also, strange as this may sound, it may be better to quite quickly build up to a dose that is 50-100% larger than the one you plan on running for your cycle. That way, you can be pretty sure that you either are or are not susceptible to the sides. Then, once you are definite that you experience no ill effects (that you know of) at the higher dose, you can drop back down to your normal cycle dose.
Otherwise, you might experience insidious onset over a long period of time, by which point, the changes may become irreversible.
But thats just my take on it.
bushy[/quote]
An Important Note:
Just like bushy said, you guys who say “it was crap chinese blah blah blah”… well, I live in Guangdong, China and I have been to the largest GH factory here and my best friend exports GH to the middle east and eastern europe, that is HIS JOB. And guess what, guys… They even showed me the vials that say MADE IN AMERICA that they stick on them here, so don’t be fooled. There is Jintropin “name brand” and “generic Chinese brand”… the difference is about $1 per IU here and it’s THE SAME SHIT. The Chinese can counterfeit anything, hence the reason I always buy generics.
My homie just told me today that a large supplier in Austria just purchased 1,200 (yes, one thousand two-hundred) 10 ml vials of test enan this morning. They just mark the shit up and send it to America, no doubt. It’s all a gigantic scam to capitalize on ridiculous laws that hurt consumers who would rather be safe.
My friends here are all on hGH as we get it for $12 for 10IU, no one has anything but awesome stuff to say. I am too scared too touch insulin.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Odd that it would disappear like that. Any outside influences or changes of habit that you can think of that might have triggered resolution?
[/quote]
I was training 2X/day 4 days a week for a few weeks, then the pain became too much, and went back to just regular training. In mid December I came off the IGF and test prop/masteron - then went to Cancun, and have not trained very hard at all since.
I have trained hard before while on the juice - but never had this type of pain issue.
I am just reaching at straws trying to figure out what caused it. But I think there were way too many things going on to single any one cause out.
Your post just kind of made me think back that the pain was highest at the peak of the IGF cycle, and has decreased steadily the further I get from the last injection.
Who the hell knows? The pain might have stopped because I started taking 20g of fish oil a day.