[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, “contest condition” is close to 6% or less with the use of diuretics on board as well. While you may be able to say few get as heavy as 20%, acting like most stay even near contest shape is a tad overboard. I would think the average now is at least 30lbs or more in off season and don’t believe the drug strategy hasn’t also changed to aid that.
Johnny Jackson isn’t near contest shape in the off season.[/quote]
How much of that 30lbs is water? 10-15 lbs, if not more due to water retention from drugs.[/quote]
Your muscles are over 70% water. What is your point? I said “OR MORE”. It is not odd to see a pro today 40-50lbs over contest weight in the off season. Obviously many would stay leaner if they have photo shoots or guest posings coming up.
Bodybuilders in the 60’s and 70’s didn’t have that as much of an issue, so the off season was just to gain.[/quote]
EDIT
TL;DR - THeres nothing controversial posted here, just some info on how drug use has changed to allow pros to stay lighter in the offseason but still be completely monsterous on contest day.
Youre right about pro’s not staying near contest shape in the offseason. Definitely right.
But the thing that throws people off nowadays is the fact that the top level pros dont get as huge in the offseason and then diet down only to reveal all the muscle theyve built. That was common about 10 years ago or so but not anymore.
Id bet a huge sum of money that all the top pros are getting drug advice from 3 or 4 people. The trend is to keep a bodyfat level as low as possible while still being able to make gains, with the making gains part as the dominant goal out of the two. Offseason gains are not what they used to be.
All of the top guys are taking advantage of modern drugs and drug protocols that allow them to add significant amounts of muscle WHILE losing fat on their contest diet. Guys are running relatively low doses of drugs in the offseason and then running obscene amounts pre contest.
You used to only hear about Levrone “growing into a show”. That is commonplace now.
It’s the only way to explain how Cutler goes from being 285 off season with a good deal of fat on him to stepping on stage at 265. Meaning he is 3% bodyfat down from at least 15% and has cut a lot of water. The bigger a man is the more raw water weight is lost, as you know Im sure.
Its impossible to say that he didnt add muscle in the process. Not A LOT of muscle, obviously, but the days of Mr O contenders ballooning up 50lbs over their contest weight are over. ESPECIALLY for the guys who are all but maxed out in how much muscle they can add.
I know you said the average is 30lbs bigger in the offseason but that single number says nothing about the body composition. A guy may lose 30lbs of scale weight and still add muscle. DOing so would create such a dramatic visual effect that it’s easy to say, based on a picture, that the guy got pretty fat in the offseason.
Its healthier and easier to maintain a lower offseason weight. Less drugs are needed, which is obviously a good thing, even for the guys who respond well.
Of course there are exceptions like Kevin English who loses 70lbs to get in shape, but thats just because he chooses to compete in a weight class. And Johnny Jackson, but he has the powerlifting thing going for him, giving him an incentive to add fat to aid his leverages.
Ronnie Coleman stepping on stage at 296lbs in '04 (I think) is a perfect example. He was never 330, 340, or 350 pounds. Id be surprised if he was even 320 that offseason.
At this point I dont even know what the thread is about, to be honest.